Rex Hudler Posted October 4, 2004 Share Posted October 4, 2004 Here is a challenge for objective and knowledgable fans (couldn't find any, so figured it couldn't hurt to put it here) The following are 10 candidates for the NL Cy Young Award. Rate them 1-10 with 1 being the best as if you were a writer. In the spirit of this, please do not try to put names with the players. Some will be obvious, but try and do this based on only the information given, with no outside bias. Lastly, won-loss records are not given here, but most other stats are. Evaluate however you would like, based on the information provided only. This will not be easy. Enjoy! Untitled Document Player ERA IP H BB K CG SV WHIP A 1.29 69.2 36 21 62 0 47 0.82 B 2.98 214.1 169 79 218 0 0 1.16 C 2.19 82.1 53 22 114 0 45 0.91 D 2.60 245.2 177 44 290 4 0 0.90 E 3.49 237 233 62 206 2 0 1.24 F 3.00 222.1 212 49 139 2 0 1.17 G 2.98 196 145 81 239 2 0 1.15 H 3.20 225 165 77 251 4 0 1.08 I 2.70 237 201 32 264 5 0 0.98 J 2.75 209.2 174 81 188 1 0 1.22 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gene Honda Civic Posted October 4, 2004 Share Posted October 4, 2004 Ok I'll play along -- You should have included Peavy though. He backed his way into the ERA title. 1) D 2) I 3) G 4) H 5) J 6) B 7) A 8) F 9) C 10) E I tried to be as unbiased as possible, even though I know who most of them are just by the numbers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwerty Posted October 4, 2004 Share Posted October 4, 2004 Ok I'll play along -- You should have included Peavy though. He backed his way into the ERA title. 1) D 2) I 3) G 4) H 5) J 6) B 7) A 8) F 9) C 10) E I tried to be as unbiased as possible, even though I know who most of them are just by the numbers. The way you have it is the way it should be in my opinion. I agree that peavy needs to be on the list even probally within the top 3-5. Also Doug davis was just as good as E era wise but did not have the run support to back him up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rex Hudler Posted October 4, 2004 Author Share Posted October 4, 2004 I thought about Peavy, but he had 30 less IP than any of the other starters and I wanted to include a couple of relievers. I also wanted to limit the list to 10. Davis would have had the 2nd highest ERA and highest WHIP. Cheat, our lists are pretty similar. I'll post my full list after others have had a chance to look at it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperSteve Posted October 4, 2004 Share Posted October 4, 2004 I go with D. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted October 4, 2004 Share Posted October 4, 2004 I want to see won-loss records and compare it to what their teams are doing. You gotta be winning games. If you aren't, there better be some really good reasons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperSteve Posted October 4, 2004 Share Posted October 4, 2004 I want to see won-loss records and compare it to what their teams are doing. You gotta be winning games. If you aren't, there better be some really good reasons. That's true. I would like to see some win-loss records. You do have saves on there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvilJester99 Posted October 4, 2004 Share Posted October 4, 2004 Whichever is Roger Clemens I would vote for...I'm too damn lazy to research his exact stats. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greasywheels121 Posted October 4, 2004 Share Posted October 4, 2004 Is RJ in that list? I know his W-L would hurt him, but he does have the other numbers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBAHO Posted October 4, 2004 Share Posted October 4, 2004 Jason Schmidt was fantastic early, definitely should be considered. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted October 4, 2004 Share Posted October 4, 2004 Whichever is Roger Clemens I would vote for...I'm too damn lazy to research his exact stats. I would to. Amazing at his age. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperSteve Posted October 4, 2004 Share Posted October 4, 2004 Whichever is Roger Clemens I would vote for...I'm too damn lazy to research his exact stats. That wasn't his point though. He wanted people to look at it subjectively, not by the big names of certain people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rex Hudler Posted October 4, 2004 Author Share Posted October 4, 2004 Whichever is Roger Clemens I would vote for...I'm too damn lazy to research his exact stats. Christ people! Why even post in this thread??? That was totally the opposite of the point of this. Learn to think outside the box a little bit and not be brainwashed by names or even won-loss records. How hard is it to follow the rules of this discussion or just not post at all?? I am not saying wins and losses don't have a place, but the previous posts just show you guys can't think outside the box. f***, give it a little effort, why don't you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxrd5 Posted October 4, 2004 Share Posted October 4, 2004 Christ people! Why even post in this thread??? That was totally the opposite of the point of this. Learn to think outside the box a little bit and not be brainwashed by names or even won-loss records. How hard is it to follow the rules of this discussion or just not post at all?? I am not saying wins and losses don't have a place, but the previous posts just show you guys can't think outside the box. f***, give it a little effort, why don't you? Wait, so your saying that Roger Clemens is pitcher C? Seriously awesome post Rex...and you'll get my answer to this who should win by the numbers shortly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knightni Posted October 4, 2004 Share Posted October 4, 2004 I would pick D as well. (RJ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvilJester99 Posted October 4, 2004 Share Posted October 4, 2004 Christ people! Why even post in this thread??? That was totally the opposite of the point of this. Learn to think outside the box a little bit and not be brainwashed by names or even won-loss records. How hard is it to follow the rules of this discussion or just not post at all?? I am not saying wins and losses don't have a place, but the previous posts just show you guys can't think outside the box. f***, give it a little effort, why don't you? Wow Rex... touchy touchy. Take it easy killer, you'll give yourself an ulser. f***ing hell. I am not very good at playing well with others anyway. I will take D by the numbers alone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWSGuy406 Posted October 4, 2004 Share Posted October 4, 2004 I'd say D, with I being the runner-up. I'm interested to know who I voted for, because I honestly don't know the stats by heart. I'm thinking it's two out of these four - Oswalt, Clemens, Johnson, Schmidt - but I'm not positive... Good thread, Rex... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rex Hudler Posted October 4, 2004 Author Share Posted October 4, 2004 Wow Rex... touchy touchy. Take it easy killer, you'll give yourself an ulser. f***ing hell. I am not very good at playing well with others anyway. I will take D by the numbers alone. I'm just fine. No ulcers here, trust me. I was just a little insulted that you can't either play along or stay the f*** out it. I put an hour into putting that together last night and you piss on it because it is too hard to think for yourself. Do what you want to do, but if I want to get pissy based on the way you handle it, then I feel I am in my rights to do so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rex Hudler Posted October 4, 2004 Author Share Posted October 4, 2004 I'd say D, with I being the runner-up. I'm interested to know who I voted for, because I honestly don't know the stats by heart. I'm thinking it's two out of these four - Oswalt, Clemens, Johnson, Schmidt - but I'm not positive... Good thread, Rex... I'll update the table with won-loss records and names after more people have had a chance to look at it, and perhaps even put a little thought into it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AssHatSoxFan Posted October 4, 2004 Share Posted October 4, 2004 have to agree with cheat that D, I, G, and H are the top 4 probably and i wouldve never thought of some of those guys right away since i checked afterwards who they were Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted October 4, 2004 Share Posted October 4, 2004 I'll update the table with won-loss records and names after more people have had a chance to look at it, and perhaps even put a little thought into it. Out of curiousity, are you of the camp that believes W/L and team position shouldn't be part of Cy Young/ MVP voting? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwerty Posted October 4, 2004 Share Posted October 4, 2004 Out of curiousity, are you of the camp that believes W/L and team position shouldn't be part of Cy Young/ MVP voting? I know i am part of that group because the pitcher honestly can't do anything about what the offense does. He can only go out there and pitch and hope for the best offensive output possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwerty Posted October 4, 2004 Share Posted October 4, 2004 I thought about Peavy, but he had 30 less IP than any of the other starters and I wanted to include a couple of relievers. I also wanted to limit the list to 10. Davis would have had the 2nd highest ERA and highest WHIP. Cheat, our lists are pretty similar. I'll post my full list after others have had a chance to look at it. I probally shouldn't have said davis should be on the list but i am sure he will get 1 or 2 votes out of the real cy young voting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rex Hudler Posted October 4, 2004 Author Share Posted October 4, 2004 Out of curiousity, are you of the camp that believes W/L and team position shouldn't be part of Cy Young/ MVP voting? No, I think it does matter. But I think too much emphasis is placed on it at times. I just wanted to try and get people to think beyond those for things for now. FWIW, based on the numbers presented, I had Oswalt ranked 10th. In reality, I would probably rank him higher, somewhere in the middle of the pack. But looking at it this way, made me wonder why so many people are talking about him as being one of the favorites to win it. I didn't have to wonder long. They are biased based on one number - wins. Don't get me wrong, wins are important. Good starting pitchers keep their teams in games, giving them a chance to win. But starting pitchers often have no control over wins either. Note I am talking about evaluating starting pitchers, not teams. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AssHatSoxFan Posted October 4, 2004 Share Posted October 4, 2004 look at brandon webb as a good case of wins not showing his true value i know last year he was around .500 but with a sub 3 ERA IIRC, this year he finished like 7-16 or so with 3.4 ERA but aside from a few bad starts he would give up 2-3 runs and lose but maybe im being biased with webb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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