Official 2008-2009 NBA Thread

[jackie hayes]

Well, in terms of freeing up cap space, there's a couple things the Bulls have going for them if they want to go that route. Someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but would 2010 be the summer where Tyrus and Thabo become RFA's? That would mean that if we still held them, that would help free up cap space because they wouldn't be under contract right when the bidding starts. Noah would still be on his rookie deal, ditto Rose.

 

The Bulls already hold 1 big expiring contract for that year in Larry Hughes. If you hold Hughes that covers a chunk of it. Gooden expires at the end of this year so he's no worry either

 

There are 4 problem guys though. Gordon, Deng, Hinrich, and Nocioni. Assume that the first 2 pick up $10 mil a year extensions this year, and even with the way Hinrich's contract is structured, that's going to be a $40 million chunk right there.

 

If you could turn 2 of those 4 in to an expiring deal for that year, that sets you up. But you can't hold more than 3 of them and expect to have the room.

 

The other problem is...there are more than a few teams looking for those contracts. The Knicks are the big fish there, and they're in a position where if they make no moves they'll have good cap room after 2010.

I agree, and I'm not saying it's a sure thing. But I imagine any deal would involve at least one of Hinrich and Nocioni being shipped out (probably Hinrich). Swap that for a contract that expires at the right time, plus Hughes's deal, and the Bulls could be a major player. (As the time gets closer, maybe deal another one off -- though I can't really imagine the Bulls dealing Deng.) Figure the Knicks and Nets are looking at that group, as well, so I'm not assuming it would be automatic. But we could realistically have a better supporting cast already in place, plus Wade is from Chicago, plus I won't listen to anyone who wants to quash my dreams, and voila, the Bulls return to prominence!

[Balta1701]

I agree, and I'm not saying it's a sure thing. But I imagine any deal would involve at least one of Hinrich and Nocioni being shipped out (probably Hinrich). Swap that for a contract that expires at the right time, plus Hughes's deal, and the Bulls could be a major player. (As the time gets closer, maybe deal another one off -- though I can't really imagine the Bulls dealing Deng.) Figure the Knicks and Nets are looking at that group, as well, so I'm not assuming it would be automatic. But we could realistically have a better supporting cast already in place, plus Wade is from Chicago, plus I won't listen to anyone who wants to quash my dreams, and voila, the Bulls return to prominence!

The nice thing is...your dream and my dream don't exactly have to be incompatible. I want to have the Bulls spend the next 2 years developing their 25 and under, peaking 5 years from now or more crowd, of Tyrus, Deng, Noah, Rose, Gordon/Thabo. You want the Bulls to replace Nocioni and/or Hinrich with someone who's contract expires in that key year. I'm sick of seeing guys like Gooden and Noc come in and take minutes away from Tyrus, Noah, Deng, and Thabo when we're trying to develop them. One potential solution to this problem is to try to turn Hinrich, Noc, Gooden, and perhaps that trade extension we have this offseason in to a big contract in that year. That way, we clear out some of the roster, get rid of the excess guys, maybe pick up the expiring contract, set ourselves up for 2010 in the FA market, and create playing time for the young guys like I want.

 

The one problem with that strategy is that it seems to require holding on to 3 starting shooting guards in Hughes, Thabo, and Gordon. I don't mind holding on to Hughes, because even if he doesn't play a minute next year his trade value goes up simply as an expiring contract if we decide we can't make the run at the big 3, and if his performance were to recover after the bad years in Cleveland his value could go up more. But that log jam there is something that we need to do something about....and if we're holding Hughes, IMO, the odd man out might well have to be Gordon.

[jackie hayes]

I can't say I'd be heartbroken if Gordon is dealt at some point.

[daa84]

I can't say I'd be heartbroken if Gordon is dealt at some point.

me neither hes a one dimensional player, and that one dimension shows up for only half the games

[Balta1701]

me neither hes a one dimensional player, and that one dimension shows up for only half the games

Gordon's problem is that he isn't set up to be a number one scoring option. He's not great at creating his own shot.

 

The Bulls offense was at its best in 06-07 when they had the ball moving around like crazy, because no one was really good at creating shots for anyone else, so Skiles's offense played in to that and created open looks by moving the ball around more. We saw the occasional game where Deng or Gordon would get hot and start creating, but when that wasn't happening and the ball wasn't moving was when they struggled.

 

But, IMO, if you stick Gordon in as a number 2 option...where even if he's off with the jumper, you have someone else, say a driving and slashing point guard who can push the lane and break down a defense, creating open looks for Gordon, you might see him as a lot more effective. When he's your number one scoring option, you're in trouble. When he's your number 2, you're in much better shape.

 

Gordon, btw, is to my eyes the big reason people have wanted "a low post threat" the last few years, because a solid low post threat would have done exactly that, given us someone who could create open looks for Gordon on the outside. I think better slashing and driving PG play will do so even better in this league, which is why I lean to rose.

[jackie hayes]

Gordon's problem is that he isn't set up to be a number one scoring option. He's not great at creating his own shot.

 

The Bulls offense was at its best in 06-07 when they had the ball moving around like crazy, because no one was really good at creating shots for anyone else, so Skiles's offense played in to that and created open looks by moving the ball around more. We saw the occasional game where Deng or Gordon would get hot and start creating, but when that wasn't happening and the ball wasn't moving was when they struggled.

 

But, IMO, if you stick Gordon in as a number 2 option...where even if he's off with the jumper, you have someone else, say a driving and slashing point guard who can push the lane and break down a defense, creating open looks for Gordon, you might see him as a lot more effective. When he's your number one scoring option, you're in trouble. When he's your number 2, you're in much better shape.

 

Gordon, btw, is to my eyes the big reason people have wanted "a low post threat" the last few years, because a solid low post threat would have done exactly that, given us someone who could create open looks for Gordon on the outside. I think better slashing and driving PG play will do so even better in this league, which is why I lean to rose.

You're right, those things would make him more dangerous. But I'd add a few more problems, like his lack of size, his terrible defense, his even worse ball handling. (I cringe every time he handles the point.) He's a useful player, he can do some ridiculous things. But, man, paying him $10+ mil a year for 5 years plus scares me. Having your off-the-bench shooter making core group money doesn't help the cap situation, even though he is one of the best off-the-bench shooters.

[SoxFan1]

A line-up without Tyrus Thomas is a line-up I'd like. The kid just isn't a very good player, and he never will be.

[rangercal]

A line-up without Tyrus Thomas is a line-up I'd like. The kid just isn't a very good player, and he never will be.

elaborate

[SoxFan1]

elaborate

Terrible work ethic, very little actual skill, relies solely on athleticism, has no real position, selfish, immature...the list goes on. He's a bust and is nowhere close to being worthy of the 4th (technically 2nd) pick overall.

 

Sure, he may take 7 years to develop like Jermaine O'Neal, but I know I won't be waiting for him, and quite possibly this off-season or the next, neither will Paxson and the Bulls. Do you really think Tyrus can develop into a 20/10 player? He is too weak/small to be a PF (which he has no post game anyway) and doesn't have a good enough jumpshot or good enough handles to be a SF.

[shipps]

Well I think its been pretty obvious Noah has always enjoyed his ganga.

[Dick Allen]

Well I think its been pretty obvious Noah has always enjoyed his ganga.

Exactly. As does about 90% of the NBA. A cocktail and reefer is hardly a big deal, especially if he wasn't driving.

[Swingandalongonetoleft]

Noah and Thomas are young guys you've put a lot of stock into by selecting them as high as the Bulls did. To give up on them after such a short time would be an overreaction to say the least. Some guys come in and light the NBA on fire right away, some develop into solid players over time.

[maggsmaggs]

My ideal situation is that the Sox trade Gooden, Hinrich, 09 first round pick for Brand. Then draft Rose and a lineup of this:

PG: Rose

SG: Gordon

SF: Deng

PF: Brand

C: Noah

 

Bench (main guys)

Noc

Thabo

Tyrus

 

This would allow Rose to be a have a ton of assist and score a modest 10 PPG. He wouldn't be needed to take over guys, just be a distributor while this talented roster feeds off his athleticism and ball handling skills. This lineup would be very good, your bench would be solid and Tyrus would get a lot of PT.

[Chisoxfn]

My ideal situation is that the Sox trade Gooden, Hinrich, 09 first round pick for Brand. Then draft Rose and a lineup of this:

PG: Rose

SG: Gordon

SF: Deng

PF: Brand

C: Noah

 

Bench (main guys)

Noc

Thabo

Tyrus

 

This would allow Rose to be a have a ton of assist and score a modest 10 PPG. He wouldn't be needed to take over guys, just be a distributor while this talented roster feeds off his athleticism and ball handling skills. This lineup would be very good, your bench would be solid and Tyrus would get a lot of PT.

I think if the Bulls go that route it would be very important to bring Duhon back in a bench role. It would be nice to have a veteran PG to help Rose, plus having that guy to provide stability as Rose goes through the growing pains.

 

The only other thing I'd like to do is package Gordon elsewhere, but as long as Hughes/Sef/Noc are able to get a lot of minutes off the bench I'd be fine. I really love the Sefolosha and think he's going to be a huge reason the Bulls end up winning a few championships in the next 7-10 years.

[maggsmaggs]

I think if the Bulls go that route it would be very important to bring Duhon back in a bench role. It would be nice to have a veteran PG to help Rose, plus having that guy to provide stability as Rose goes through the growing pains.

 

The only other thing I'd like to do is package Gordon elsewhere, but as long as Hughes/Sef/Noc are able to get a lot of minutes off the bench I'd be fine. I really love the Sefolosha and think he's going to be a huge reason the Bulls end up winning a few championships in the next 7-10 years.

Love the confidence, I am just hoping for one.

[Brian]

Love the confidence, I am just hoping for one.

 

I joined your facebook group.

[maggsmaggs]

I joined your facebook group.

Nice, the more the merrier.

[MHizzle85]

Nice, the more the merrier.

As did I.

[zenryan]

Noah needs to grow up. You can tell he is still immature. Someone needs to tell him he's a pro player and needs to hang out with adults, not with college kids in gainesville florida.

[Swingandalongonetoleft]

/\ I think the dude is 23, he has time. Having said that, you can get in the same trouble hanging with adults.

[rangercal]

Noah needs to grow up. You can tell he is still immature. Someone needs to tell him he's a pro player and needs to hang out with adults, not with college kids in gainesville florida.

 

only kids smoke weed?

[HuskyCaucasian]

Well I think its been pretty obvious Noah has always enjoyed his ganga.

his hair says it all. I guess I just assumed he did it. Now it is confirmed.

[RockRaines]

his hair says it all. I guess I just assumed he did it. Now it is confirmed.

His father said it was before he grew that hair.

[The Beast]

Noah needs to grow up. You can tell he is still immature. Someone needs to tell him he's a pro player and needs to hang out with adults, not with college kids in gainesville florida.

I thought Rick Morrisey's column from yesterday's Chicago Tribune was pretty funny, it poked fun at Noah and it made me laugh at Noah's stupidity. I also have wondered about his hair, whether or not it was a rostifarian trim or not.

Edited May 29, 2008 by The Beast

[Steve9347]

Doug Collins is the new Bulls coach according to ESPN 1000 and Chicago Sun Times.