The Democrat Thread

[NorthSideSox72]

Walker is also going to have an enormous Citizens United warchest backing him thanks to it being a nationally publicized race.

And his opponent will be well-funded for the same reasons.

 

[Balta1701]

And his opponent will be well-funded for the same reasons.

I argued previously that Democratic Super-PAC's supporting Obama hadn't really begun fundraising yet and that was why they were out-gunned by 10 to 1 or worse, and that in that case the gap would close. For the Presidential race, they might be able to match it. I have no confidence in that happening at the state level. The unions just don't have the money to come anywhere close to what wall street can pump in to break them.

[StrangeSox]

One company running charter schools in Chicago has enacted the brilliant policy of fining students for rules infractions:

 

http://abclocal.go.com/ktrk/story?section=...&id=8542631

 

If parents can't afford to pay the fines, their child will be held back.

 

For-profit education is the best!

[Balta1701]

This one was particularly shareable.

 

The Daily Show With Jon Stewart	Mon - Thurs 11p / 10c
The Vagina Ideologues - Sean Hannity's Holy Sausage Fest
www.thedailyshow.com
Daily Show Full Episodes Political Humor & Satire Blog The Daily Show on Facebook

 

 

 

[StrangeSox]

This one was particularly shareable.

 

The Daily Show With Jon Stewart	Mon - Thurs 11p / 10c
The Vagina Ideologues - Sean Hannity's Holy Sausage Fest
www.thedailyshow.com
Daily Show Full Episodes Political Humor & Satire Blog The Daily Show on Facebook

 

Saw that last night, that was pretty great.

[NorthSideSox72]

This one was particularly shareable.

 

That was awesome.

 

[StrangeSox]

Politifact continues to bolster their reputation as really, really terrible at actually determining if something is a "fact":

 

Rachel Maddow made yet another stinging attack on PolitiFact last night, calling the Tampa Bay Times' fact-checking project "a disaster" (see video).

 

Via email, PolitiFact editor and Tampa Bay Times Washington bureau chief Bill Adair responds to the criticism:

 

Our goal at PolitiFact is to use the Truth-O-Meter to show the relative accuracy of a political claim. In this case, we rated it Mostly True because we felt that while the number was short of a majority, it was still a plurality. Forty percent of Americans consider themselves conservative, 35 percent moderate and 21 percent liberal. It wasn't quite a majority, but was close.

 

We don't expect our readers to agree with every ruling we make. We have published nearly 5,000 Truth-O-Meter ratings and it's natural that anyone can find some they disagree with. But even if you don't agree with every call we make, our research and analysis helps you sort out what's true in the political discourse.

 

Unfortunately, Adair's defense serves to prove Maddow's point and negate his own.

 

In the statement in question, Florida Senator Marco Rubio said the majority of Americans were conservatives. In his statement, Adair admits that "the number was short of a majority." Yet PolitiFact arrives at the conclusion that Rubio's statement is "Mostly True."

 

"It wasn't quite a majority, but was close," Adair writes in his email.

 

So Rubio's statement isn't true. It's false.

[SOXOBAMA]

Stewart and Colbert are great shows to watch..

[HuskyCaucasian]

This one was particularly shareable.

As someone who works for a church, that line about allowing churches to keep $100 billion in offerings and "persecute my ass like that" was really damn funny.

[HuskyCaucasian]

Mitt Romney: I Would Have Rescued Detroit, Too!

 

On Wednesday Romney indicated that he may have provided direct loans to the industry — as the Obama administration did — had he been in charge at the time.

-----

To sum up his original position: Romney famously said in 2008 that the US should let Detroit go bankrupt (see his New York Times op-ed: “Let Detroit Go Bankrupt”) and force them to restructure their companies to be competitive. But he also suggested — ten paragraphs down or so — that the federal government should help them emerge from bankruptcy intact since they were unlikely to get any private financing in the middle of an economic collapse.

-----

Romney himself filled in a big piece of the puzzle later that day by openly acknowledging, for what appears to be the first time, that he supported providing loans to the auto industry in order to keep them afloat through bankruptcy.

 

“They needed to go through bankruptcy and if as part of that process they needed financial help to get out of bankruptcy, a bridge loan or guarantees for their sales of cars and so forth, I said the government should be there to provide that,” Romney told a Michigan radio station Wednesday.

----

“As Mitt Romney throws himself at Michiganders, claiming to be one of their own, voters in Michigan just can’t shake the words he spoke in 2008, ‘Let Detroit Go Bankrupt,’” a Democratic official said. “He can’t have it both ways - he adamantly opposed bridge loans in 2008, but now wants voters to believe he would have supported them. Michigan voters know Romney will say anything to get elected and they aren’t buying it.”

 

So, Romeny's plan (as of today) to save the auto industry in 2009 is to let them go bankrupt then help them. So, his plan was to let the house burn to the ground then show up with the firetruck.

[southsider2k5]

Mitt Romney: I Would Have Rescued Detroit, Too!

 

 

 

So, Romeny's plan (as of today) to save the auto industry in 2009 is to let them go bankrupt then help them. So, his plan was to let the house burn to the ground then show up with the firetruck.

 

The propaganda surrounding this issue is blinding.

 

The auto industry would have emerged the same if it went through traditional bankruptcy as it if didn't. They would not have been liquidated and made to disappear. They would have cut costs through the bankruptcy and reorganized. There would have been loans to the auto firms. There is too much money involved for them to just go away. They also wouldn't have logged billions of dollars in taxpayer losses.

 

The whole, the Republicans wanted the auto industry to fail is just pure ignorance. I guess that means every struggling industry that Obama didn't bailout, he made them and wanted them to fail?

[Balta1701]

The propaganda surrounding this issue is blinding.

 

The auto industry would have emerged the same if it went through traditional bankruptcy as it if didn't. They would not have been liquidated and made to disappear. They would have cut costs through the bankruptcy and reorganized. There would have been loans to the auto firms. There is too much money involved for them to just go away. They also wouldn't have logged billions of dollars in taxpayer losses.

 

The whole, the Republicans wanted the auto industry to fail is just pure ignorance. I guess that means every struggling industry that Obama didn't bailout, he made them and wanted them to fail?

Like when Lehman Bros. filed for bankruptcy and found plenty of transition capital available in 2008 to keep their operations running.

 

After all, there were lots of lenders in 2008 willing to risk tens of billions of dollars of their own on something that you say "logged billions of dollars in taxpayer losses".

 

Edit: Finally found the quote I was looking for:

As I am sure you all remember, going into bankruptcy with no source of continued funding would mean liquidation for the auto makers and everyone understood that at the time including Keith Hennessy in public.

 

Saying he was for managed bankruptcy without a funding source was like saying he was for medical treatment but at the time refused to pay for the medicine or that he was for having a kid finish their degree only he refused to pay the tuition.

[southsider2k5]

Like when Lehman Bros. filed for bankruptcy and found plenty of transition capital available in 2008 to keep their operations running.

 

After all, there were lots of lenders in 2008 willing to risk tens of billions of dollars of their own on something that you say "logged billions of dollars in taxpayer losses".

 

Edit: Finally found the quote I was looking for:

 

There would have been a source of funding. The idea there wouldn't have is just propaganda.

[GoSox05]

Congressional Birth Control Hearing Involves Exactly Zero People Who Have a Uterus

[Balta1701]

The idea there wouldn't have is just the direct statement of the CEO of Ford (who was thus arguing for the saving of his main competitors in what would be a horrible business decision if untrue), in addition to everyone else involved.

Slight rewording there.

[southsider2k5]

Slight rewording there.

 

The idea that GM and Lehman are anything similar show how little you understand the situations of the two firms.

[Balta1701]

The idea that GM and Lehman are anything similar show how little you understand the situations of the two firms.

Leaving out all the actual economic data and basic facts of the 2008 situation, my personal favorite refutation of the idea that bridge funds are available is the fact that they were asked for in the first place.

 

Think of it. You've got 3 captains of industry, guys who are getting paid millions of dollars per year, guys who get to fly around in private jets and get tens of millions of dollar severance packages...going before Congress, begging, hat in hand, for tens of billions of dollars to keep their companies running. Not only do they have to humble themselves that much, but then they have to deal with hours and hours of Congress berating them for sucking...and the Shermanator sitting there and making them look like fools for taking private jets to a hearing where they're asking to be bailed out.

 

The idea that these guys would put up with Congress if there were legit bridge funds available is laughable.

[southsider2k5]

Leaving out all the actual economic data and basic facts of the 2008 situation, my personal favorite refutation of the idea that bridge funds are available is the fact that they were asked for in the first place.

 

Think of it. You've got 3 captains of industry, guys who are getting paid millions of dollars per year, guys who get to fly around in private jets and get tens of millions of dollar severance packages...going before Congress, begging, hat in hand, for tens of billions of dollars to keep their companies running. Not only do they have to humble themselves that much, but then they have to deal with hours and hours of Congress berating them for sucking...and the Shermanator sitting there and making them look like fools for taking private jets to a hearing where they're asking to be bailed out.

 

The idea that these guys would put up with Congress if there were legit bridge funds available is laughable.

 

Why wouldn't they go in front of Congress? They got a way better deal than they would have in bankruptcy court, and they didn't really have to make any hard decisions. I also don't think you appreciate the marketshare difference, or hard asset difference, not to mention the amount debt we are talking about going into default here if GM went under, which is exactly why it wouldn't have happened. Then again, by the logic being spouted here, Barack Obama wanted MF Global to fail, along with all of the farmers that went with them.

[Balta1701]

Why wouldn't they go in front of Congress? They got a way better deal than they would have in bankruptcy court, and they didn't really have to make any hard decisions. I also don't think you appreciate the marketshare difference, or hard asset difference, not to mention the amount debt we are talking about going into default here if GM went under, which is exactly why it wouldn't have happened. Then again, by the logic being spouted here, Barack Obama wanted MF Global to fail, along with all of the farmers that went with them.

Did you even pay attention to 2008? The literally trillions of dollars the Federal reserve shoved out the door to keep credit markets functioning? Companies that were otherwise healthy couldn't get financing for their most basic functions. Proctor & Gamble took over half a billion dollars in Federal Reserve loans because of a lack of financing. Basically every company out there that relies on credit in any way found the credit markets frozen. Profitable companies with assets taht shoudln't have reasonably been questioned couldn't get loans, because the people doing the loans couldn't make them based on assets that were suddenly worthless. You yourself have said that the 2 auto giants were on the hook for tens of billions of dollars that they couldn't pay back. And yet somehow, despite the fact that companies that were in much, much, much better shape than GM couldn't get funding for basic, day to day operations, the private sector was going to come in and provide bridge funding at rates that were reasonable enough that the companies wouldn't shut down.

 

And then the fact that the companies were in bankruptcy, with no one standing behind warranties any more, wouldn't have any impact on sales during those bridge years.

 

And then the fact that Ford, the company that survived without the bailout, said flat out "you need to bail out my main competition" doesn't matter at all.

 

You're right about one thing. They got a better deal by going to the government. Because the alternative was Chapter 13.

[southsider2k5]

Did you even pay attention to 2008? The literally trillions of dollars the Federal reserve shoved out the door to keep credit markets functioning? Companies that were otherwise healthy couldn't get financing for their most basic functions. Proctor & Gamble took over half a billion dollars in Federal Reserve loans because of a lack of financing. Basically every company out there that relies on credit in any way found the credit markets frozen. Profitable companies with assets taht shoudln't have reasonably been questioned couldn't get loans, because the people doing the loans couldn't make them based on assets that were suddenly worthless. You yourself have said that the 2 auto giants were on the hook for tens of billions of dollars that they couldn't pay back. And yet somehow, despite the fact that companies that were in much, much, much better shape than GM couldn't get funding for basic, day to day operations, the private sector was going to come in and provide bridge funding at rates that were reasonable enough that the companies wouldn't shut down.

 

And then the fact that the companies were in bankruptcy, with no one standing behind warranties any more, wouldn't have any impact on sales during those bridge years.

 

And then the fact that Ford, the company that survived without the bailout, said flat out "you need to bail out my main competition" doesn't matter at all.

 

You're right about one thing. They got a better deal by going to the government. Because the alternative was Chapter 13.

 

I think you hit every single talking point.

[Steve9347]

You know you guys could just totally Skype naked instead of arguing with each other in every thread.

[Jenksismyhero]

You know you guys could just totally Skype naked instead of arguing with each other in every thread.

 

 

LOL

 

[farmteam]

You know you guys could just totally Skype naked instead of arguing with each other in every thread.

 

 

On the other hand, , for giving me such a terrible image in my head.

[Balta1701]

I think you hit every single talking point.

Whereas yours is just "funding was available. Shut up."

[StrangeSox]

There would have been a source of funding. The idea there wouldn't have is just propaganda.

You are delusional.