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MarkBuehrle_TheAce

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QUOTE(Kalapse @ Jan 24, 2006 -> 09:24 PM)
Mark Buehrle is not an ace.

How so?

 

I guess it's all how you define an "ace." For me it's a pitcher that would be a #1 for a majority of the teams in the MLB.

 

IMO, Mark wouldn't be the #1 starter for the Cards, Cubs (arguable,) Astros (arguable,) Padres, Mets, Braves, Marlins, Blue Jays, Yankees (arguable,) A's (arguable,) and Twins.

That's 7 no doubters and for 4 arguable cases, so I would call him an "ace" without mentioning the fact that he has thrown the most innings since 2001 except Livan Hernandez.

 

EDIT: The Pitchers I was comparing him to were Carpenter, Prior or Zambrano, Clemens (if he comes back) or Andy P, Jake Peavy, Pedro, Smoltz, Dontrelle, Halladay, Randy Johnson, Rich Harden or Barry Zito, Johan Santana.

Edited by santo=dorf
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I don't think Mark will let playing for his hometown team weigh that much in his future. He certainly will not make it a top 5 reason for leaving. I'd be more worried about seeing his innings drop a bit next season and staying healthy.

 

IMHO, when he finishes his career, he will be regarded as one of the 5 best starters in White Sox history and a potential HoF member. If he had better PR, or played for the Yankees, he'd already have monuments made.

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Mark Buehrle is an Ace in every sense of the word, he gives u innings, is a leader and benchmark for the rest of our stellar staff to par themselves against, he gives u a low ERA (3.12, 2nd in AL) and 16-20 wins. He also had a 1.18 WHIP, thats DAMN good. If ozzie had it his way, there would be no bullpen, instead just 5 starters pitching 400 innings apiece (which buehrle could handle) lmao :cheers

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I agree with Kalapse. An ace isn't just a #1 pitcher. An ace is a pitcher who can dominate an opposing team's lineup. Buehrle gives up way too many hits to be an ace. Aces don't need to pitch for contact. Johan Santana is an ace.

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QUOTE(SSH2005 @ Jan 24, 2006 -> 09:52 PM)
I agree with Kalapse.  An ace isn't just a #1 pitcher.  An ace is a pitcher who can dominate an opposing team's lineup.  Buehrle gives up way too many hits to be an ace.  Aces don't need to pitch for contact.  Johan Santana is an ace.

 

Just curious; who else would you list as an ace? What's your cutoff for BAA in orfer for a pitcher to be a dominant pitcher? Would you take a pitcher who gave ups many more walks than Buehrle, but had a lower BAA?

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Mark Buehrle doesn't dominant opposing teams? this is the same Mark Buehrle who completes games in record times, pitches six innings or more every time out on the mound, and has been atop the rankings in whatever metric you use among major league starting pitchers?

 

Mark Buehrle is an ace.

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I think you've got to count MB as an ace. He's been a solid workhorse year after year. Does he dominate every foe every outing. No...I guess he wouldn't be a Gibson, but he's integral to this team and this staff.

 

As to his signing, don't get too anxious. I think he'll stick around and will be signed.

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Just curious; who else would you list as an ace?  What's your cutoff for BAA in orfer for a pitcher to be a dominant pitcher?  Would you take a pitcher who gave ups many more walks than Buehrle, but had a lower BAA?

I see your point but you are failing to mention strikeout rates. An ace is a pitcher who can dominate teams without a lot of help from his defense. This is the same reason Garland will never be an ace no matter how low his ERA goes. He depends too much on his defense backing him up than on his own stuff. Just my opinion. I rank Buehrle as the #1 pitcher in our rotation but I still don't think he's an ace like Santana or Oswalt. I would bet my life that no GM in baseball would trade one of these guys for Mark Buehrle.

Edited by SSH2005
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To me there arent that many aces in MLB ill list guys i consider aces

 

Roy Halladay, Roger Clemens, possibly RJ if he shows Arizona form, Pedro Martinez, Johan Santana, and Ben Sheets(a bit of a reach).

 

 

If Prior stays healthy id put him on there too. Also guys that I consider will be aces soon are Rich Harden and Jake Peavy. And if Carpenter can repeat his 05 season id think to put him up there too.

 

 

So as you can see saying Buehrle isnt an ace because in my case there is only 4-5 aces in mlb.... and RJ really shouldnt be up there if he starts off 06 like he did in 05.

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I'd just like to thank the few of you that knew what I was doing when I posted that.

 

I'd also like to thank the rest of you for proving my hypothesis correct.

 

All I had to do was type one sentence and suddenly it turns into a heated argument of which we already had months ago.

 

You are all dumb. Thank you.

 

EDIT: I'm thinking about deleting this post about ten minutes from now, getting off Soxtalk and comming back on tommorrow morning to read the 32 page thread that will have grown from my comment.

Edited by Kalapse
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QUOTE(Kalapse @ Jan 24, 2006 -> 11:11 PM)
I'd just like to thank the few of you that knew what I was doing when I posted that.

 

I'd also like to thank the rest of you for proving my hypothesis correct.

 

All I had to do was type one sentence and suddenly it turns into a heated argument of which we already had months ago.

 

You are all dumb. Thank you.

 

EDIT: I'm thinking about deleting this post about ten minutes from now, getting off Soxtalk and comming back on tommorrow morning to read the 32 page thread that will have grown off my comment.

 

I think I am nominating this for post of the month. brilliant work.

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QUOTE(Kalapse @ Jan 24, 2006 -> 10:11 PM)
I'd just like to thank the few of you that knew what I was doing when I posted that.

 

I'd also like to thank the rest of you for proving my hypothesis correct.

 

All I had to do was type one sentence and suddenly it turns into a heated argument of which we already had months ago.

 

You are all dumb. Thank you.

 

EDIT: I'm thinking about deleting this post about ten minutes from now, getting off Soxtalk and comming back on tommorrow morning to read the 32 page thread that will have grown off my comment.

 

there are some uninformed people on this board, what else do you expect? ha

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MIKE CARUSO'S THE ONLY ACE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

http://www.baseballamerica.com/today/featu...s/whitesox.html

TOP PROSPECTS OF THE DECADE

 

Team  Player, Pos.  2005 Org

1996  Chris Snopek, ss/3b  Out of baseball

1997  Mike Cameron, of  Mets

1998  Mike Caruso, ss  Out of baseball

1999  Carlos Lee, 3b  Brewers

2000  Kip Wells, rhp  Pirates

2001  Jon Rauch, rhp  Nationals

2002  Joe Borchard, of  White Sox

2003  Joe Borchard, of  White Sox

2004  Joe Borchard, of  White Sox

2005  Brian Anderson, of  White Sox

:lolhitting

Edited by SSH2005
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