White Sox Top 11 Prospects

[False Alarm]

Five-Star Prospects

1. Gordon Beckham, SS

Four-Star Prospects

2. Aaron Poreda, LHP

3. Brandon Allen, 1B

Three-Star Prospects

4. Dayan Viciedo, 3B

5. Tyler Flowers, C

6. John Shelby, CF

7. Jordan Danks, CF

8. Chris Getz, 2B

Two-Star Prospects

9. Clayton Richard, LHP

10. Brent Morel, 3B

11. Jose Martinez, RF

 

Just Missed: Dexter Carter, RHP; Jeff Marquez, RHP; Juan Silverio, SS

 

The Sleeper: Brent Lillibridge, also acquired in the Javier Vazquez trade, has seen his prospect star droop considerably over the past two years, but he's still a speedster with some on-base skills who can play nearly anywhere on the diamond.

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=8459

Edited February 2, 2009 by False Alarm

[ThunderBolt]

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=8459

Is the highest we've ever seen Brandon Allen rated? That's great news for the organization.

[southsider2k5]

Is the highest we've ever seen Brandon Allen rated? That's great news for the organization.

 

Until he gets the K rate down a bit, and/or starts drawing about 100 walks a year, its too much.

[caulfield12]

Any rating for Viciedo at this point is VERY silly, at best.

 

Flowers also seems to be getting the short end of the stick, compared to where he's normally at...which is 3rd or 4th, especially if he can stick as a catcher, he'd be #3 behind Wieters and Posey probably in MLB if he has another season like last year (plus the AFL.)

 

I also don't see how Lillibridge can be completely out of the picture (well, "sleeper") after one injury-riddled season.

Edited February 2, 2009 by caulfield12

[Princess Dye]

If he's at that point where expectation might be a little inflated for him, i bet the team would look to move him for pitching. They apparently had that mindset with Chris Carter, to dump 1b potential.

 

The organization still needs that before they need a power hitting 1b

Edited February 2, 2009 by Princess Dye

[NorthSideSox72]

Silverio being overhyped again. He's a 20 year old who struggled at short-season A ball and, by scouting reports we've seen here, was a butcher defensively. There are about 4 shortstops in the Sox system that I'd rather higher than Silverios (Beckham, Miranda, Kuhn, Escobar, in that order).

 

[DukeNukeEm]

Am I allowed to post certain "premium" aspects of this article on ST?

[Kenny Hates Prospects]

Silverio being overhyped again. He's a 20 year old who struggled at short-season A ball and, by scouting reports we've seen here, was a butcher defensively. There are about 4 shortstops in the Sox system that I'd rather higher than Silverios (Beckham, Miranda, Kuhn, Escobar, in that order).

+1

 

Even if the kid was 16/17 last year, he should have actually done something in rookie ball if he had any talent whatsoever. Didn't the Sox give him like $600K? Look at what Wilmer Flores did for the Mets last year, or what Carlos Triunfel did in his rookie season, or what Elvis Andrus did in his rookie season. All three of those guys were 16 or 17 year old shortstops signed out of Latin America and given big bonuses. When you get a bonus that size you're supposed to be able to hit f***ing rookie league pitching. s***, if you're organizational fodder drafted out of college meant to fill a roster, you're still expected to hit rookie league pitching to at least some degree. .228/.265/.321 means probably translates to about .250/.300/.350 in the DSL for f***'s sake. The "man-child" is really a man and hopefully the last mistake that prick asshole cocksucker Wilder made.

 

BTW, this list f***ing sucks. How is Allen a 4-star prospect and Viciedo a 3? If Allen is a 4, then Viciedo is a 6. Allen should be a 3 and Viciedo should be a 5. A bat like that at 3B with supposedly great arm strength and average-to-above average defensive potential is a 5-star 'spect. I could *see* making Viciedo a 4-star prospect because the BA has never seen him, but if BA is only ranking people on what they've seen, then there's no way Shelby is listed as a CF, there's no way Allen is listed as a 4-star prospect, and there's no freaking way Silverio makes this list. And there's no way Poreda with his one pitch ranks at 4 stars based on ceiling while Richard with his 2 pitches and MLB readiness only ranks as a 2. If we're going based on ceiling, then Richard's ceiling as a #4/5 starter or above average lefty setup man is worth 3 stars.

 

In short, BA = trash. Law and Callis' rankings are much, much more accurate, and say what you want about them, but at least these guys aren't making rankings based off organizational hype only from a year ago. Some douche at BA opened the White Sox file cabinet and pulled out a sheet of paper that had some scribbled Dave Wilder hype on it and then decided to use that as a base for a list. Garbage. I'm actually shocked Broadway didn't make this list as bad as it is.

[southsider2k5]

Am I allowed to post certain "premium" aspects of this article on ST?

 

Nope.

[Balta1701]

In short, BA = trash. Law and Callis' rankings are much, much more accurate, and say what you want about them, but at least these guys aren't making rankings based off organizational hype only from a year ago. Some douche at BA opened the White Sox file cabinet and pulled out a sheet of paper that had some scribbled Dave Wilder hype on it and then decided to use that as a base for a list. Garbage. I'm actually shocked Broadway didn't make this list as bad as it is.

You do realize that this list was put together by Baseball Prospectus, not Baseball America?

[ThunderBolt]

Prospectus>Sickels>BA>Law

[Kenny Hates Prospects]

You do realize that this list was put together by Baseball Prospectus, not Baseball America?

My apologies to BA then. And good, because I dislike Baseball Prospectus even more.

[False Alarm]

goldstein's heavy on tools and silverio has them. that's gonna be more important to him than performance in rookie ball. he even says in the intro that after our top 5 there's a huge dropoff and everyone's almost interchangeable. people are freaking out over the placement of grade-C prospects.

[Balta1701]

goldstein's heavy on tools and silverio has them. that's gonna be more important to him than performance in rookie ball. he even says in the intro that after our top 5 there's a huge dropoff and everyone's almost interchangeable. people are freaking out over the placement of grade-C prospects.

I would imagine that BP may well put more of an emphasis on the age number than any other prospect evaluation. So if there was some, let's say, fuzziness, in that number, they'd probably be the place that would show it the most.

[ILMOU]

Prospectus>Sickels>BA>Law

 

Well, time will tell who has the best crystal ball among the experts, but I, for one, am encouraged that some people think as highly of Brandon Allen as they do. We'll need the lefty power bat post-Thome.

 

I agree that any rating of The Big Cohiba is a shot in the dark, but I got a real good feeling about the guy if he really is getting in shape.

 

[scenario]

I thought this comment was interesting...

 

"Allen received outstanding reviews from scouts, especially those who saw him as he was finishing up last season at Double-A Birmingham, and that gives him the edge over Viciedo.

[ILMOU]

I thought this comment was interesting...

 

"Allen received outstanding reviews from scouts, especially those who saw him as he was finishing up last season at Double-A Birmingham, and that gives him the edge over Viciedo.

 

14 HR's in 41 games in that park IS very impressive, but it's not a huge sample.

 

I need to look up Ryan Howard's MiLB numbers. He didn't emerge til age 26 in Philly, but he was obviously ready.

 

Here's hoping Allen becomes a slightly downsized Howard, much like Q resembles a slightly downsized Canseco.

[daa84]

+1

 

Even if the kid was 16/17 last year, he should have actually done something in rookie ball if he had any talent whatsoever. Didn't the Sox give him like $600K? Look at what Wilmer Flores did for the Mets last year, or what Carlos Triunfel did in his rookie season, or what Elvis Andrus did in his rookie season. All three of those guys were 16 or 17 year old shortstops signed out of Latin America and given big bonuses. When you get a bonus that size you're supposed to be able to hit f***ing rookie league pitching. s***, if you're organizational fodder drafted out of college meant to fill a roster, you're still expected to hit rookie league pitching to at least some degree. .228/.265/.321 means probably translates to about .250/.300/.350 in the DSL for f***'s sake. The "man-child" is really a man and hopefully the last mistake that prick asshole cocksucker Wilder made.

 

BTW, this list f***ing sucks. How is Allen a 4-star prospect and Viciedo a 3? If Allen is a 4, then Viciedo is a 6. Allen should be a 3 and Viciedo should be a 5. A bat like that at 3B with supposedly great arm strength and average-to-above average defensive potential is a 5-star 'spect. I could *see* making Viciedo a 4-star prospect because the BA has never seen him, but if BA is only ranking people on what they've seen, then there's no way Shelby is listed as a CF, there's no way Allen is listed as a 4-star prospect, and there's no freaking way Silverio makes this list. And there's no way Poreda with his one pitch ranks at 4 stars based on ceiling while Richard with his 2 pitches and MLB readiness only ranks as a 2. If we're going based on ceiling, then Richard's ceiling as a #4/5 starter or above average lefty setup man is worth 3 stars.

 

In short, BA = trash. Law and Callis' rankings are much, much more accurate, and say what you want about them, but at least these guys aren't making rankings based off organizational hype only from a year ago. Some douche at BA opened the White Sox file cabinet and pulled out a sheet of paper that had some scribbled Dave Wilder hype on it and then decided to use that as a base for a list. Garbage. I'm actually shocked Broadway didn't make this list as bad as it is.

 

 

You do realize that this list was put together by Baseball Prospectus, not Baseball America?

even more so, do you realize that Jim Callis is the executive editor of baseball america? BTW the douche that does some work for baseball america that Wilder supposedly gave the bad info to was Phil Rogers.

 

also do you realize baseball prospectus is a sabermetric and statistical based website, that could care less about Dave Wilder when putting together a list? While I agree that Viciedo is probably better than a three star prospect, I haven't, and I suspect you have never seen the kid play (short of a few 30 second you tube clips). BP probably hasn't seen much of him, and I know they have very little statistical data to use, so it wouldn't seem prudent to me to give a guy 5 or 6 stars based solely on the value of his signing bonus. The ranking that actually surprises me most is that Flowers isn't ranked higher.

Edited February 2, 2009 by daa84

[ILMOU]

The ranking that actually surprises me most is that Flowers isn't ranked higher.

 

Agreed.

 

Really don't have a clue, but I'd be guessing there must be significant doubt about his viability as a catcher, possibly putting him in a comparison pool with 1B's and DH types. If it is, in fact, statistically based, it would be interesting to see the algorithm's or multipliers they use to quantify such doubt/degree of doubt.

 

 

 

[bighurt4life]

The only ratings that caught my eye as far as surprises were the Brandon Allen and Tyler Flowers, i would have expected them to switch places. Also, if these guys are really all about tools then you'd think that Danks would be at least a 4 star with all the tools he has.

 

I'm curious about Marquez, is he really such a non factor that he's not even in our rankings. If so, then damn. We gave up our top 3 prospects for almost nothing in return

[scenario]

BTW, this list f***ing sucks. How is Allen a 4-star prospect and Viciedo a 3? If Allen is a 4, then Viciedo is a 6. Allen should be a 3 and Viciedo should be a 5. A bat like that at 3B with supposedly great arm strength and average-to-above average defensive potential is a 5-star 'spect. I could *see* making Viciedo a 4-star prospect because the BA has never seen him, but if BA is only ranking people on what they've seen, then there's no way Shelby is listed as a CF, there's no way Allen is listed as a 4-star prospect

 

Do you realize what a monster year Allen had?

 

In 472 at-bats (between Winston-Salem and Birmingham)...

32 doubles

6 triples

29 homeruns

.367 OBP

.555 SLG

And he stole 17 bases.

 

One of the things that surprised and impressed scouts this year was his ability to run the bases.

It's my understanding he got serious, lost weight, and blew people away with his athleticism.

He's no longer looked at as just a big guy who can hit the long-ball.

 

I'm sure that had alot to do with his dramatic improvement in standing as a prospect.

Edited February 2, 2009 by scenario

[Balta1701]

also do you realize baseball prospectus is a sabermetric and statistical based website, that could care less about Dave Wilder when putting together a list? While I agree that Viciedo is probably better than a three star prospect, I haven't, and I suspect you have never seen the kid play (short of a few 30 second you tube clips). BP probably hasn't seen much of him, and I know they have very little statistical data to use, so it wouldn't seem prudent to me to give a guy 5 or 6 stars based solely on the value of his signing bonus. The ranking that actually surprises me most is that Flowers isn't ranked higher.

But I think I pointed this out earlier...because they're doing mathematical projections and seeing a kid they think is 17 playing in rookie ball, their projections might be skewed a lot more because they're projecting mathematically based on that number, while someone with actual scouts eyes on the kid might think something completely different. Therefore, they might be particularly vulnerable to the type of manipulation that has been suggested to have occurred with these kids.

[Balta1701]

Agreed.

 

Really don't have a clue, but I'd be guessing there must be significant doubt about his viability as a catcher, possibly putting him in a comparison pool with 1B's and DH types. If it is, in fact, statistically based, it would be interesting to see the algorithm's or multipliers they use to quantify such doubt/degree of doubt.

I'll bet that they used defensive metrics in that evaluation, i.e. can he stay at catcher, and that probably dragged him down a lot. But, if it's true that last year was his first year behind the plate, there's another reason why the metrics might miss a useful factor...that he hadn't done it before.

[Cubano]

Any rating for Viciedo at this point is VERY silly, at best.

 

I agree 100%. He has not put his toes in a baseball field in the USA yet against any competition. He has done nothing to deserve this high ranking.

[bighurt4life]

I agree 100%. He has not put his toes in a baseball field in the USA yet against any competition. He has done nothing to deserve this high ranking.

+1

 

Nobody outside of a few select scouts and executives have even seen him in action yet, and all they saw was a workout. We have no idea what he's going to do. All we know is that he tore it up in Cuba and must have some fantastic potential if it cost 10 mil to sign him essentially sight unseen.