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This reminds me of the people who always demand a catcher who's good at framing, good at throwing runners out, good at handling a staff, and good at offense. They act as if we should easily find this player and it's our scouting department's fault for not coming up with him. Yet, there are like, 1-2 catchers who fit all those requirements in all of baseball. Anderson is the least of our problems. You can pencil him in as the #9 hitter on a good team at shortstop and call it a win, especially with what he's getting paid.

FWAR for starting SS on contending teams this year: Indians - 6.9, Dodgers - 4.2 (team number), Red Sox - 4.1, Yankees - 3.9, Rockies - 3.6, Mariners - 3.3, A's - 3.0, Cardinals - 2.2, Astros - 2.0, Diamondbacks - 2.0, Cubs - 1.6, Braves - 1.5, Phillies - 0.0, Brewers - negative 2.0 (team number). *Average value = 2.6 Anderson's 2.3 value is already near the average value for starting shortstops of all contending teams. He's definitely not a fringe starter.

I'm shocked you posted that.

Did they discuss why the Cubs haven't called him up yet?

I sure hope he didn't bet the house again.

With the exception of the unfortunate 8th and 9th innings of last night’s game, the Sox dominated the Yankees in 25 of the other 27 innings played in this series, and in their home ballpark, no less. Very nice!

"Why would they trade for Abreu when they have Greg Bird??" Granted, Abreu is on the DL right now, but the idea that Bird isn't worth upgrading was funny to me

I think he'd be best suited for your Soxtalk group located under your username on your posts

You're completely ignoring that his overall game is trending upwards and the stats support this. This is why many of us are fine with Timmy as the SS for the foreseeable future. Since you're not happy with Timmy tell who you think the Sox future SS should be. Drop some prospect names or free agents that will fit the Sox contention window that begins in a few years.

Eloy!

I also don't think Anderson is close to being maxed out. He's incredibly gifted physically.

One of the biggest problems with being hyperfocused on WAR is that teams aren't built in a vacuum. If my 2nd baseman is an OBP machine, I'm more than a happy with a slick fielding SS with good speed and power. There's too much focus on individual players and not enough on how they fit with the team. This isn't fantasy baseball. Not every player has to be prototypical.

Except he spent his career at OU not being able to throw strikes.

I created this thread because my discussion about Anderson's OBP/OPS sucking kinda hijacked the Giolito thread. Hopefully everything gets moved here. To sum up my thoughts: Anderson's OBP and OPS, while league average for a SS, still suck. That doesn't make him good, it means the league average SS sucks as well. I think that Anderson is fine as a 9 hitter until they can find someone better. That may or may not happen. If it does, and Anderson is still under contract, he should become a super sub(2B/SS/3B/OF) for 130 games/ season.

Yes. I think we need to split this thread into the Anderson OBP Thread, and the Giolito thread. Surprised it hasn't been done yet. I'm going to create a new thread.

There are A LOT of really good young SS in the bigs right now. Anderson is nowhere near one of them.

Because both a .291 OBP and A .709 OPS still suck, even if they're not historically bad.

OPS is the simple math of OBP plus slugging %. Yes, the combination of XBH and OBP typically score more runs. OPS and OBP have the strongest correlation with run scoring. OBP is part of OPS, so I don't know what you're looking for. What's Anderson's OPS? .710? That still isn't good. EDIT: Anderson's OPS is .709. Not good.

No Shit Sherlock. There is a stronger correlation with run scoring for OPS and OBP than any other stat. Typically, the teams that have the highest OPS/OBP score the most runs. Teams that get on base and get the most XBH, score the most runs. All of the other stats don't correlate as well as OPS/OBP.

OBP is the heart of offense. The goal, as a hitter is, you know, not to make an out.

If there were odds given for Machado vs. Harper, I'm with you I'm more inclined to believe Manny comes here. Keuchel will be 31 by opening day, on the other hand Corbin will be 29 for the majority of next season. I'm not against getting a vet for the bullpen but Kimbrel is going to command a lot of money for an area the sox have shown an ability to excel at. Narvaez is certainly becoming a dude but his defense and framing(104th) are so bad, his arm is solid but thats about all he has going for him behind the dish; I view him as a luxury as a back up but a suspect as a starter. With such a young staff across the board focusing on someone like Grandal would be a boon, top 3 in framing and offense.

Fry must just be impossible to pick up the ball on.

Yes, screw you Yankees

Because of one good start?

Will this franchise ever get a break with regards to a ball hitting the dirt before being caught?

And half of Soxtalk is pissed about it hurting draft position.

Lamarre is 30 and not good. Enjoy this game, but don't get fooled.

Do the White Sox have too many talented outfielders? Where would Eloy even play?

With is fantastic! But the fact Lopez basically abandoned his curve all year, his bread & butter breaking ball in the minors, and has not only brought it back but has also been able to command is the most important takeaway from tonight IMO. Why Cooper had him stop using it in the first place is beyond me.

This seems to be one of those threads where if you didn't know the score you'd assume by reading the posts that Lopez was giving up a ton of runs instead of having a 1 hitter through 4 with no walks and 4 k's.

Of course Ricky is some kind of line up making genius.

This lineup looks like one of the joke lineups we put together earlier this season

Totally. He's been through a lot, on and off the field and he's a real leader on and off as well. Just a great guy, he was always a big charity guy when I was living in NYC and he looks to have only continued that work and expanded on it as he ages.

CC's knee are just sawdust and cardboard at this point, I really admire the guy, no idea how much longer he has.

Was reading Kiley McDaniel's chat today and fangraphs STILL thinks Cease is a reliever. Their stance on both Cease and Medeiros is baffling.

Another awesome lineup courtesy of Rickie. JFC, the FO needs to slap some fucking sense into him. Yoan needs to be getting every fucking PA he can, not Engel.

Could be a useful backup. Team will need to find a utility guy that can play a decent SS when they are contending. Intriguing power but contact concerns. But why take it from me, how about a nationally recognized prospect evaluator?

Yeah -- me too, then bring him up, resign him when the time comes and we get to watch both. :).

Lots of hot bats and filthy relievers to choose from in the last two weeks. Eloy of course has been red hot, but he's actually 2nd in OPS on the farm in that period. Who was first? Who else has been hot? Find out here.

I'm amazing!

If the Sox are considering signing a FA pitcher this winter, I hope it's someone of value and not another Gonzalez, Holland, Shields type where they are wasting both dollars and opportunity (missed playing time for a young guy).

Tim Anderson is sitting at a 2.3 fWAR SS today. That is #13 amongst ALL SS's in MLB today. His defensive rating at Fangraphs is good for #11 overall. Hopefully by "super sub" you mean he is a middle of the pack starting SS today, because that is where he is. And that is even if you were to look at what is he is doing this year as his peak. If his bat improves and his defense continues to improve, you will be talking about a top 5 SS in all of baseball.

I don't think he stinks per se, I think his on base skills are dreadful. He's useful in other ways, his power/speed combo is awesome, he plays good defense. I just think his OBP is so bad that he should be a 130 game super sub rather than an everyday player. For the time being, he's fine as a 8-9 hitter on a contending team. He's Alexei Ramirez with a worse OBP. Ramirez's OBP was on the "Mendoza line of OBP" that I created of .300. If .200 is the Mendoza line for BA, we need to find some punch and judy hitter with a .300 career OBP and make it his line. If they could teach him to play 3B and OF then he'd fill the super sub role perfectly.

He is also a bit lucky to be on a rebuilding team. A contending team wouldn't have been able to let him work through this. Hopefully he continues to improve.

They don't even need a stopgap. Put Eloy in RF and let Palka/Delmonico play LF.

well aren't we all.

It’s not like it hasn’t happened to him before.

Things look a whole lot brighter if you pencil in Manny Machado. This offseason could be interesting. I doubt we get him or other elite FAs, but hope to see the Sox at least show serious interest.

I'm just going to sit back and watch you guys discuss this. I'm saying nothing in response to all of the shit that I got for saying I still thought he could turn it around.

Some really nice movement on this 2-seamer GrayAgitatedAztecant-mobile.mp4