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Well greg cursed it guys. It was fun while it lasted

What's Ohtani's Q score though?

Suck it Parkman

Bears clinch the North and Parkman is strangely silent. Hmmm...

Sorry Buster, but we don’t believe you bud.

I want to recognize the exemplary behavior of Abreu. It would be very surprising and out of character, if we ever heard this kind of BS from him. It's just one of the things that I find so endearing about Jose.

Who even watches ESPN anymore? I have been a Sox fan since '91 and will be until my last breath. I personally believe the Sox are in the mix for both players, with a dream to sign both. Will they? I don't know. If they sign both, or none of them, I am personally enjoying all of the excitement around the team this offseason. They have a direction for once, either it all comes together or doesn't. I have been so sick of being okay or good but never good enough. Swing for the fences boys, and if you miss try again next year.

I saw that tweet this morning. I didn't quite get it. When else have the Sox come up this much with the national guys? What do they gain by pumping up the Sox chances? Especially when they bring up the Sox and reporters basically scoff at them in the running. If the Red Sox/Cubs were heavily in on Harper ESPN would be wall to wall with it what would Buster be doing then?

How sweet it will be when/if he signs with the Sox and can blow away all the haters.

Doesn’t Levine just regurgitate what the other national reporters say though? History shows the Sox are cheap so it’s not far fetched to be true I just take everything that guy says with a grain of salt

He at least remembers we won the World Series in '05 so he's already better than ESPN.

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Updated thread title since this is now the default Machado thread

I've decided to take some advice from my my therapist, Dr. Mackey M'kay? I've come to the conclusion to be more rational about things instead of an insufferable negative lout. I'm done with that stuff. It does nobody, including myself, any good.

Way to ruin a wonderful day greg.

Me thinks Buster is full of shit.

You think Yonder is here? My guess is he's over yonder (that joke will never get old).

Well I’ll be happy if I heard he cancels the rest of meetings after tomorrow.

Its laughable how 9 million dollars is somehow going to save Cleveland and allow allow them to sign 3 studs and also sinking the Sox and crushing the rebuild due to the financial burden. Desperate for some real news

Marlins are totally going to get too greedy and botch this.

For those who don't understand, or agree with the point I'm making about Machado's demands, let me express it this way: If he is more valuable to the team, at 3RD base, rather than SS, why would he insist that he play short, and demand more money, in order to make a concession by playing his best defensive position? If none of this registers with you, then I guess that we simply have different perspectives. When one adds this egocentric crap to his other dubious behavior, especially during the Post Season, you have to at least question his character. Imagine how he might behave, once he has signed his big 10 year contract. At least now, one would think that he would try to be on his best behavior. Once he has inked a deal, who knows what kind of person will emerge? Perhaps having his best friend and wife's brother around to mentor him, or maybe "keep him in line" is a better choice of words, could be the biggest intangible benefit of signing Alonso. Maybe, we should extend Yonder, in the event Manny comes to the Sox, just to baby sit this guy. LOL.

Maybe even a plus for the Sox for signing Welington Castillo last year as well. He's supposed to be real good friends with Machado.

That's an incredible point. Represents a little bit of a selfish teammate. Hopefully he's just saying this because he's a free agent, but you never know. I do think it's a little off putting, but maybe it will change once he's actually on a team

Aren't we literally talking in the other thread about how Jose Abreu doesn't like being put at DH?

It would appear that Machado and his agent are simply using this positional preference as a negotiating ploy: https://larrybrownsports.com/baseball/manny-machado-move-to-third-base-right-contract/476698 This is just more of the same. When he was insisting that he could play SS, it was likely intended to increase his value. Now, that interested teams are expressing the desire to have him play 3RD, he's suggesting that he would be willing to do that, for a few million dollars more. Geez, this stuff gets old. I wonder if using such a negotiating tactic is really wise. One might think that he would build more political capital and generate more interest if he simply said; "I'm confident that I can contribute anywhere my new team needs me," or: "I can play 3RD, SS or 2ND, whatever would help my new team, the most". A team, in need of a third baseman, might react to that posture, more favorably. He is clearly a better defensive third baseman, than he is a SS. So, what is he saying? Is his stance that he will only provide the most potential value to his new team, if they pay him extra? What's next, "Hey, and I might even consider hustling more, if you pay me extra". How about; "Hey punk, here's $350 million, now shut up and focus on trying to justify it". Does anyone else find any of this just a little "off putting"? I would guess that more than a few former players, from previous eras, especially pre the free agent era, are shaking their heads, in disbelief and disgust.

Dr Chao knows his stuff

Timmy's BB% got higher, his K% got lower, his fielding got much better towards the end of the season.. there's a lot of hope for him

I don't mind the deal, but I do wonder what some of our posters who have been positive or quiet about this deal, the ones who stress age and amount of money a player makes is important, truly thinks about this deal? Yonder is old by board preference standards (turns 32 in April). And frankly, his stats? Is there any doubt the younger, lower paid Palka and Davidson given these same amount of at bats in a plattoon/DH could do as well or better than Alonso? I believe they could do as well as an every-day Alonso. That said ... it is a great move for an organization trying to sign Manny. It's obvious to me this will help greatly in trying to land Manny. Of course you'd think he wants to play baseball with his brother in law. Prescient move by Hahn in that regard. I would like to hear from those who thought Avi was overpaid and too old for the rebuild and all that. Take Manny out of the equation and I would think most of the Soxtalk regulars should be against this trade. So are you for the deal greatly because the Sox could and maybe will get Manny as a byproduct of it? If Manny like George Bailey had never been born would you still like this deal?? Speak up please. For the record ... I credit Hahn for thinking outside the box here but remember I worshiped Davidson and Avi and they are gone.

It would be really sweet! Don't Stop Believing!!

I wouldn’t worry about the Harper to the Dodgers thing until you start seeing some salaries moved by them to help in the potential deal

So in other words he's out for one week

I don't even click on those things anymore. When someone signs I will know it soon enough. Of course if you imbed it I can't help but read it.

Likewise, I think any of us that are happy about the deal will immediately sour if he doesn't decide to sign here.

I think everyone's frown will turn upside down if manny signs here. Right now people are just anxiety ridden because they don't know

He may hate DHing, but that’s without question the best spot for him given his poor defense. And his career splits are nearly identical between 1B & DH, which eliminates the uncertainty of whether he can handle the role. I’d probably let Abreu play 1B against LHP (with Alonso on the bench), but that should be it for him.

You are actually underselling it since you only talked about what Alonso brings. Machado:3rd base huge upgrade defense and offense. Eloy :huge upgrade offense defense probably better than DelMonico and Palka. Castillo: more power and better defending then Narvaez. Plus still could add Harper or anyone else.

Completely hypothetical here, but what if you knew trading for Alonso would increase your chances of signing Machado from a 25% chance to a 75% chance. You pull the trigger and Machado ultimately signs elsewhere. Was it a bad decision to get Alonso?

His info is wrong or more likely a plant by us. I can tell you right now any bidding process is going to require teams to present some indicative range of value up-front. This is not a formal offer but simply a means to weed out teams that aren’t going to be serious players. We know we’ve already made that first cut which means with near certainty we can assume that we’re willing to go at least 10/$300M (the Nationals offer) and likely much higher.

This article is exactly why Harper won’t end up in L.A. unless he’s willing to take a lot less money. The Dodgers have zero reason to spend 10/$350M+ on him. I still think this comes down to us or the Phillies.

Except we’ve done exactly that by dumping Avi and essentially Fulmer. The only difference is Collins hasn’t yet failed at the big league level...but isn’t he usually listed around 7-10 these days on most Sox lists? It would be idiotic to go into the pivotal 2020 with Collins as the starting catcher if they weren’t 100% believers in his ability to get the job done. As far as Alonso/Adams goes, we’ll surely be able to list about 10-15 guys like him or Pedro Alvarez that could have put up a 738 ops at that position for half the price...which won’t matter if they sign Machado, but essentially forces him into whipping boy position with the fans if they don’t. He’d just be another version of James Shields, where you think more of the player you don’t have instead of the one you’re left with to try to get behind.

Here's some shameless self-promotion but this is what I think is happening: https://theloopsports.com/2018/12/15/white-sox-this-is-what-having-a-seat-at-the-table-looks-like/

Derrick Rose I believe. Pax was finally smart enough to have his ping pong ball come up.

Or trade with Cubs. Or sign Luis Robert.

They base this off historical tendencies. Historically, we never were going to rebuild. I for one enjoy these stereotypical walls being destroyed. To hell with ESPN.

I'm an ESPN Insider. Here's the entire article: The White Sox slashed their payroll in recent seasons as they traded away players such as Chris Sale and Adam Eaton and went about the business of stockpiling prospects. This leaves them in perfect position to grow their payroll now, to make moves like the transaction they executed Friday, when they agreed to take on first baseman Yonder Alonso, a $9 million salary dump of the Cleveland Indians. Alonso happens to be the brother-in-law of superstar free agent Manny Machado, and both players are represented by agent Dan Lozano. This move will feed industry theory that the White Sox are laying the groundwork for a significant, aggressive strike on either Machado or Bryce Harper, the two most prominent players available. With Harper, or with Machado, the White Sox would have a centerpiece lineup star to support their young, developing players, including shortstop Tim Anderson and outfielder Eloy Jimenez. With Machado, or with Harper, the White Sox franchise would get a jolt of adrenaline and interest, enough to draw some eyes away from the crosstown Cubs. But to sign Machado or Harper is probably going to require an extraordinary investment. USA Today reported that the offer the Washington Nationals made to Harper was worth $284 million, when you account for how the deferred money in the proposal would have translated into present-day dollars. The Nationals may still be open to discussing that kind of arrangement with Harper, which is something of a floor in the negotiations executed by agent Scott Boras. The White Sox really like Harper as a player. They also really like Machado, a player they attempted to trade for before the 2018 season in the hope that a year with the team would help convince him to re-sign with them. But a well-placed source says the franchise's interest does not go so far that the team would sign either player to a record-setting contract, which is probably what will be required to land them. The interest of the White Sox is more measured and modest than frenzied, and within more conventional financial bounds. If Harper and Machado shatter the salary ceiling with their next contracts, it probably will be done with teams other than the White Sox.

Walker was just coming back from an injury (strained oblique muscle) that kept him out for a pretty decent chunk of time towards the end of his college season. So you are comparing an injured guy in his draft year to a multi year pro. If you want a stats based approach to comparing them, you should check out their college stats because they have asymmetric available professional data. http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/profile.asp?ID=201173 http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/profile.asp?ID=184086 They put up incredibly similar numbers in their final college seasons, but Walker played in a much more difficult conference. Walker was also good enough that he was selected for the Team USA collegiate national team where he also did really well. To me, Call was a nice outfielder that maybe could play at the major league level, but was more likely a tweener that ends up being a AAAA player. Walker might similarly be a tweener profile, but I think he could be the best of both aspects similar to a Yelich. He has good power and good speed, but not great at either, while Call seems to be more of an average at both. I think Call is a fine prospect, but he is also the type that most organizations have and we could find another like him rather easily if we wanted to.

Alright, so here are my thoughts. First & foremost, the question of whether or not this can happen comes down to money. Trying to be objective here, I’m going to consider a couple of pieces of information. Let’s start with Forbes’ valuation after the 2017 season: https://www.forbes.com/teams/chicago-white-sox/ This article suggests we made $30M in operating profit after the 2017 season. While this shows player expenses of $119M, our major league payroll was only $98M according to BP: https://legacy.baseballprospectus.com/compensation/?team=CHA For this analysis, the $98M of payroll and the $30M of operating profit are the key numbers to focus on. All other items (draft & LatAm spending, minor league spending, etc) will be held constant. What this immediately suggests is we could have afforded a $130M payroll last year. And that’s with pretty pathetic gate receipts. So what has changed since then? The MLB has renewed it’s contract with Fox, resulting in an additional $7M/year in revenue per team. For sake of math, let’s say that our payroll potential at $140M. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.thewrap.com/fox-extends-its-tv-deal-with-major-league-baseball-through-2028/amp/ But in the grand scheme of things that is pretty insignificant. The real potential comes with our next TV deal with should go into effect after the 2019 season. Right now, we earn somewhere between $50M to $55M for our broadcast rights. https://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/estimated-tv-revenues-for-all-30-mlb-teams/ I can’t find the source, but there is some speculation our revenue could double as a result of this new TV deal. But given this is simply speculation, let’s be conservative and say our next deal will pay us $25M more, which would be an50% increase. That would put our payroll potential around $165M and that again is with our current gate receipts. So what would it take to pay both Harper & Machado? Let’s be aggressive and say they earn a combined $85M in the early years. That’s about half of our potential payroll. But that’s at current gate receipt levels and adding two mega stars would definitey change that. Even at just 2M in attendance (2011 levels), we should see a $12M increase in gate receipts plus a decent amount in parking, concessions, etc. Let’s call it $20M all-in, putting a conservative payroll estimate for the near-term at $185M. That allows us to spend $100M on top of Harper & Machado. TLDR - Yes, we can afford to add both Harper & Machado and still have enough payroll flexibility to build a competitive roster.

Lisle just got name dropped on the MLB Statcast podcast. It was quick but they just said how Daniel Descalso worked with him to rebuild his swing and then set career highs in slugging, on base, and homeruns while dropping his groundball rate to a career low.

For those unaware, FutureSox is a blog that came from the original SoxTalk/SoxNet community. We write about White Sox minor leaguers and prospects. We provide tons of content - The FutureSox part of the SoxTalk board is the discussion area, which is thriving, but is actually only a part of what we offer. If you want to know about the guys who could be the White Sox of the future, we've got you covered. This pinned post provides links to all sorts of handy information, at your fingertips... First, social media channels. Many of you probably already follow/subscribe to some or all of these. Use them - they are all free! You can keep up to date with everything this way, beyond just via SoxTalk (especially if you are on your smart phone and SoxTalk doesn’t work as well)... The Blog – FutureSox.com --This is the mothership for FutureSox, where all of our articles go up. But you can also put your email address in the Subscribe box on the right side, and you'll get an email every time a new piece goes up - whether it is a recap, interview, analysis or anything else. No spam or ads for this either, it is only notifications of our articles going live. We have new content every day now. Twitter: @FutureSox --We have over 4,500 followers, and it is a very active account, sending out all kinds of info, so follow us if you are on Twitter! Facebook: FutureSox (page) --"Like" us on Facebook, where we post article links and other information. Especially handy for those who are on smart phones but don't use Twitter. We only have about 260 "Likes" right now, would love to have more! YouTube: FutureSox Videos (channel) --We have exclusive videos of over 70 current White Sox prospects on our channel. These are videos we took ourselves and can't be found elsewhere. In fact, we have video of a number of prospects who you just can't find video for anywhere else from anyone. You can Subscribe to the channel and you will be emailed when new videos go up. We saw every affiliate live this year, so there is a lot of current tape to look at! Podcasts - on Pod-o-matic or iTunes --You can subscribe on Pod-o-matic to get our podcasts (we've done a bunch so far), or just search "FutureSox" on iTunes. Downloads are free, and we get into lots of detail on these that you won't see written up anywhere. So download us to your audio device, and give us a listen on your commute. Then the pure informational links... Current Top 30 Prospects, and previous rankings Prospect Profiles - Detailed reports for around 40 of the best prospects in the system at any given time Most recent Draft Tracker Interviews - mostly prospects, but also coaches, managers, and front office personnel Finally, a list of all the Future Sox writers, their SoxTalk handles (if they have one, and Twitter handles... Dan Santaromita, Editor (danman31), @TheDanSanto Matt Cassidy, Editor (NorthSideSox72), @Matt_Cassidy Jeff Buchanan (Ozzie Ball), ? Rob Young (southside hitman), @RobertHYoung Brian Bilek (raBBit), @ChiSoxraBBit Will Siskel (wsiskel), @willsiskel Daniel Shapiro (Quinarvy), @DanielShapiro19 Matt Lynch (MDL27), @MattLynch27 We’ve ramped up our content a lot in the past year. We have daily recaps of the every day’s games, interviews with prospects (did about 50 this year), analysis and feature pieces, news coverage, draft analysis (before and after), player-written articles (two so far, hoping for more), we visit the affiliate teams during the season, and of course the two big ones people always lean on – twice-annual prospect rankings, and the draft tracker in June. We (the writers of FutureSox) are proud of what we’ve built, and we hope everyone takes advantage of all this content. If anyone has suggestions, let us know!