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One might ask why the Phillies would not go ahead and make an offer above the rumored Sox bid. The answer could be that, realizing they will not win a bidding war with the Sox, they believe that it is in their best interest to not have Manny's contract be so expensive that it would negatively impact their negotiations with Harper. Whatever Manny gets, Boras will demand more for Harper. The less he gets, the more that helps the Phillies in their negotiations with Harper.

FTFY

So we're still pretending that the Sox are gonna sign Manny to play shortstop?

I understand what the pain & suffering of being a Sox fan does to one’s psyche, but that dude is one whiny little b****.

I'm sitting in my basement right now, don't think I see Harpchado, unless one of them spontaneously turned into a 75 lb labradoodle?

Lol...watch this dude be the next wetbutt.

Don't speak for me, you're not my dad!

Some people aren't happy unless they are miserable.

Least shocking thing ever.

P noles b****ed for absolutely nothing

Okay, so I went and did some rough math work on the last idea and adding the 3 will net us: Manny over Yolmer 5.0 vs 1.4 = +3.6 wins expected 28 million per salary Pederson over Engel 3.3 vs .1 = +3.2 wins expected 5 million per salary Keuchel over Giolito 3.1 vs .2 = +2.9 wins expected 18 million per salary Total WaR for additions compared to current roster projections = +9.7 wins for 51-55 million increase in payroll. This would put us roughly at 80 win projection for 2019. Add in a few lucky increases to developing talent and we could knock on the 82-83 win total. Not enough to win the division or a wild card, but definitely enough to keep the team interest high, increase attendance and start to build a positive team momentum to carry into 2020 when the calvary of pitching help and potentially the 5+ win additions of Madrigal and Robert/Outfield Prospect arrive with money to still add a key free agent that tips the scales.

How many times do we have to tell you this old man?!

Here's a thought. I saw this documentary called Timecop about a cop who traveled back in time to stop people who traveled back in time to do nefarious things. So, maybe we are not yet at the point where Hahn will travel back in time to sign Machado on Christmas day. When he goes back in time, Hahn might have to win a fight against Jean Claude Van Damme, but we don't know Rick's level of training so it's at least theoretically possible. We could both be closer to the signing *and* farther from it at the same time. Science is wild.

4 pm

Reading what Anderson had to say about Machado at SS, are there people who are actually upset about that? That is exactly what I would want him to say. He was respectful, yet willing to fight for his job.

Why would the Sox forfeit a high 2nd rounder for 2 years of Pollock?

Is this based on you watching him regularly? Because if it is, I could buy it. But there are some sample issues with that argument if you’re just going off the numbers. His CF numbers have been much worse the past two seasons as you say, but 2017 was a partial season for him, and he only actually played 187 innings in CF last year. His numbers in LF over that same span are actually quite good. In 2018, his sample in LF is about four times larger. It sounds like you’re looking at the Inside Edge stuff for part of this. Those 50/50 plays you referred to — he only had six total chances at them last year, and only one of those came in CF. Not good that he didn’t make many of those plays, but clearly non-conclusive if you’re trying to predict future performance I don’t think there’s enough data to suggest a precipitous decline in his ability to play the OF. I think that the closest answer to the truth is probably in the Dodgers usage of him, which is increasingly as a corner guy. It really seems like he is a guy who is probably an above average corner outfielder and a below average, but acceptable center fielder.

When the Sox are good, you don't want Joc Pederson in CF with Eloy and another guy with not much range making out your OF. But for now, Pederson in CF wins more games than Engel in CF because Engel cannot hit. Pederson is fine in CF in 2019 when you aren't contending, but if he costs anything, as much as I have always coveted him, it really makes little sense. If you can get him for basically nothing, fine. It will make the team better.

Yes the draft pick thing is a problem. The following players were drafted after Zack Collins in 2016: Alex Kiriloff, Forrest Whitley. These guys were taken after Burdi: Carter Kieboom, Taylor Trammell, Bo Bichette and Jesus Luzardo. There is a common trend among all of these guys. These guys were all taken after Jake Burger: Shane Baz, Heliot Ramos, DL Hall, Drew Waters, JB Bukauskus, Nate Pearson. The biggest problem with that year though was that Keston Hiura and Jo Adell were the two picks before Burger. They just weren't bad enough. The Sox refusal to choose HS players in the early rounds is unfortunate and lowers the ceiling on the rebuild a bit however.

Lol hey all of a sudden everyone thinks we can compete with the slowest CF and outfield in baseball and no starting pitching i'm cool with that . But I'll be waiting with the big I told you so after the season. Besides it mostly new posters, I got some support from Balta but once Rabbit said Joc was a good CF everybody lined up to kiss his ass and isn't using anything but but speed doesn't matter what about reads and jumps which is what all the slow guys say. Or the old but so and so was good and he wasnt a barn burner. Wonderful I never said speed makes you great or lack or it makes you suck. I'm just saying speed is the best thing you can have as a CF and that shouldn't even be a debate ask Mickey Mantle Willie Mays, Mike Trout , Engel, Buxton and all the guys with blazing speed who were and are considered top notch CFers who far outnumber the slow one's who are considered good. And there's no doubt at all that Pederson is slow. I used sprint speed by statcast to measure speed and everyone is measured the same way by it so I don't see how disputing it's accuracy can help the slow guys.So them I used statcast Catch Probability that takes into consideration things like speed but also reads and jumps an OF gets and still Pederson sucked in a year where he played mostly LF and now he's going to play CF ? I really don't know what else to say.It's not like anyone came forth with better stats to support their claims. All I got was mostly trying to discredit my methods without backing up their claims. I don't think I'm dieing at all. I'm outnumbered by people drinking the koolaid and sick of losing but that's Ok it's been fun.

Guys, we’re tracking Instagram likes now?? I change my mind, I don’t want this to end. I’m curious to see the mental state of us all at page 700. Glad we can have fun here!

Have the O'Hare bartenders tweeted?

Poor guy is gonna get lit up at Sox fest with Machado questions....

Saw a few other MLB players as well. We may have to petition to increase the 40 man!

I had him in fantasy while he was on the Titans. Had some monster games for me. Probably over the hill now, though.

I like how he even says it's a burner account. At least he's honest, right?

And others aren't happy unless everyone knows why they're miserable and should be just as miserable as them.

I think the Phillies know that the White Sox will do anything to sign Manny and that's why they haven't increased an offer to him. They've proven it by having him come to Chicago, trading and signing his close friends. This started last year when they tried to trade for him and the signing of Wellington Castillo. Other teams know this and I'm sure that's another reason why offers haven't poured in.

Friday Schedule: 1:00 p.m. - Sox Youngsters Hitting clinic presented by Bulls/Sox Academy 2:00 p.m. - Q&A with Rick Renteria 2:45 p.m. - Surprise introduction of Manny Machado 3:00 p.m. - Ice Cream Social

Took it a step farther.

What? Bad at proving what? I broke down the math for you to show you how absurd it is to say those 4 teams had less than a 10% chance of winning the world series combined. Its simply inaccurate. The market will tell you that with the prices set. 40% of participants did not have a 10% chance of winning. Even if you thought they were much worse than the remaining 60%, their odds would still come in at about 25% if their price was +300 in every series. Given that the A's were about -110 in their first series, that already negates the +300 requirement.

Yeah, right. More like Lake Inferior, amirite?

I went to school in Iowa and the student population had a good number of students from Twin Cities area. They just would rave about their state constantly and how great it is. They would also act all tough when it was freezing and say "This isn't bad, in Minnesota its way colder". All these people in Iowa had a goal of living there after graduation and I really didn't understand the desire, its freezing cold, the city has nothing special, and it's expensive lol

I disagree. As of this second, the Sox are in no position to move anybody who might have a future impact, whether it's Fulmer or Bush. There's just no reason to. Get rid of Delmonico, no problem. But no reason to move players who could improve, let alone someone like Bush who is a high ceiling prospect, to help a team that won 62 games last year. 2019 is going to be a bad year with or without Pederson. Now, sign Machado? Then you can also pick up a starter, get Joc and try to compete for a WC spot this year if everything goes right. But as of now, I would be pissed if the Sox get Pederson to patrol CF on a team without Machado or Harper. Might as well hold on to any prospect and hope they improve.

If it's contingent on trading Pederson, why would a Pederson trade come after? But before or after, he's bound to be right.

That's a safe prediction every day, I think. Then, when something finally happens we can be pleasantly surprised.

I’m going to guess these will be the guys in the 16 to 30 range: RH Pitcher (6): Ian Hamilton, Tyler Johnson, Jordan Stephens, Jimmy Lambert, Jonathon Stiever, Spencer Adams LH Pitcher (3): Kodi Medeiros, Konner Pilkington, Bernardo Flores Corner Infield (2): Gavin Sheets, Bryce Bush Middle Infield (3): Laz Rivera, Luis Curbelo, Lenyn Sosa Catcher (1): Seby Zavala

Can. We. Stop. Sharing. Bullshit. Tweets.

He’s right. 2019 isn’t our year... manny or not.

This is no longer a question of if, but of when.

Ok, fine, you convinced me, add Mussina to the suspected PED list. In reality, anybody who played in the steroid era is fair game thanks to Bud Selig. It's just unfortunate that the HOF has been ruined by voters who choose their steroid candidates by personality off the field. Unless they shock us all and dont vote David Ortiz in.

Lastly, this should have been a slightly expedited rebuild given that they traded elite MLB talent for MLB nearing prospects. They didnt trade for 19 year old kids - they traded for guys that were very close to Major League ready. If the Sox arent competing until 2021 then this rebuild failed as the key components acquired from our major trades will only have 2 years of controllability left.

I am beginning to wonder if Manny Machado is a real person.

At some point, you need to try to win games and improve. Adam Engel doesn't deserve anymore time in a MLB outfield. Playing bad young guys with no future with the team is actually worse than filling the spot with average veterans. At some point, progress needs to be made and steps need to be taken. This needs to be a year of improvement and growth; Engel assists with neither of those things.. Pederson for two years is worth way more to the team than giving Adam Engel 500 more at bats. In this thread, there are people hoping for playing time for Adam Engel and Daniel Palka; they are literally two of the worst players in MLB. Adam Jones and Carlos Gonzalez are also bad baseball players. That would be an old school White Sox path; sign over the hill veterans that were once good, and hope to catch one more good year before their career is officially over. Once again, comparing Jones/Cargo to Pederson doesn't make a lot of sense. Adam Jones had a .5 WAR last year in 600 At Bats. He hasn't surpassed 2 WAR in 3 years. Gonzalez had a "bounce back" year last year with a 1.7 WAR; his bat speed has diminished significantly and he's never hit outside of Coors. He had a negative WAR two years ago. These aren't good adds; they're simply big names from the past that no longer are worth their reputations. The Sox need to bring in young, potentially, long term assets - Pederson may be locked up for two years, but there's no reason to think you couldn't extend him given the current climate of outfielders.

First time poster, long time lurker. Some White Sox fans obsessions with bad baseball players has always baffled me. Comparing Daniel Palka to Joc Pederson is just laughably absurd. Palka is 27 years old and Pederson is 26. Despite Palka posting a +107 wRC last year, he was a .7 WAR player in nearly 500 at bats. He doesn't walk, he strikes out a ton, and he might be the worst defensive player in baseball. He graded out as a -12.1 last year despite playing the easiest position on the baseball diamond and playing a position that is cluttered with horrible fielders. Joc on the other hand, is one year younger and has already accumulated 10.1 fWAR, with two seasons over 3.1 and one at 2.7. He's an above average MLB player. Joc didn't grade out great in the outfield last year, but in his career he's a career average CF'er - which is much harder to be than an average left fielder. ANYONE who thinks Daniel Palka can even sniff Pedersons jock as a defensive player is absolutely kidding themselves. Pederson's wRC+ last year was 126!, and in his one down year he was a league average hitter with an wRC+ of 100. I get it guys, you had fun watching Palka on a very bad baseball team. He supplied you with some moments of joy in a season that had very few, and he seems like a fun good guy... but he SUCKS at baseball. He does not belong on any even mediocre baseball team. Joc, on the other hand, is an impact player on a Good baseball team. Even comparing the two players is absolutely laughable. Daniel Palka does not belong in a MLB uniform. He has some power and can hit the ball really hard, but overall he's a bad baseball player. He can't play the field, he can't throw, he's a poor baserunner and his bat ceiling is a slightly above average hitter? No thanks. Also, as a CF'er for 18 years of my life, people citing sprint speed is absurd. Aaron Rowand wasn't winning any sprint speed contests but he was a hell of an instinctual defender. I'm not comparing Pederson to Roward, but his sprint speed means very little. You're breaking down already unreliable defensive metrics even further - using catch probability on a year to year basis is a horrible way to analyze a player given the micro-nature that is the sample size. Long story short, Daniel Palka is awful at baseball and Joc Pederson is not.