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I've been a Sox fan since 1970 (permanently left the Cubs after the 1969 collapse). I grew up in the Chicago area (Evanston), but I haven't lived in the Chicago area since I left to go to college. Lived 10 years out in Washington State, and since the mid-1980s in Northern Virginia. Thus my blog name VAfan. I was all-in on the Sox for many years, hanging on their every move year after year. That was true up through the glorious World Series year, which came almost out of nowhere. What a magical run 2005 was. (I wrote a 17-page recap of that season so I'd always remember it.) We still have the best post-season run of any team in the current format, with only 1 setback, a 3-2 loss to the Angels we might have won had Contreras thrown home to get the lead runner instead of trying for an unsuccessful DP. That run was the difference. I stayed with the Sox as they tried to get back to the World Series, but kept falling short. Once the World Series players left, the Sox still had interesting guys like Chris Sale, Adam Eaton, and Jose Quintana. But it wasn't enough, and the disastrous attempt to be relevant with Jeff Samardzija (who cost us Marcus Semien), Todd Frazier, Melky Cabrera, and David Robertson led the team to blow it up and start over (but not before trading Fernando Tatis, Jr. for James Shields!!). It was around that point that I stopped paying much attention. Oh, I knew the roster for the most part, and noticed who they traded for and who they drafted high. And my son and I would usually go see the Sox for a game when they came to Baltimore or DC, but otherwise I didn't watch the futile last several years. This year is going to be different. I'm back to being interested in the team again. All the moves may turn out for naught, just like they did in 2015. I don't think we're World Series contenders by any means. And even making the playoffs is going to require a lot of things to go right. But the team should be interesting again. They aren't stocking their lineup with 4-5 below-replacement players any more, waiting on their young guys to be ready. The young guys are ready, or at least ready to debut on the major league stage. I'm excited to see Luis Robert and Nick Madrigal. I'm eager for Yoan Moncada to take another step forward. I wanted to see Zach Collins, but I'm fine waiting for him while Edwin Encarnacion hits bombs. It was great to see Lucas Giolito make such strides last year. Can Reynaldo Lopez and Dylan Cease make their own leaps forward? What do Michael Kopech and Carlos Rodon have to offer? Is there anyone else on the farm who is going to emerge this year or next and make an impact? I think it was smart for the front office to add guys to the young core to try to be relevant in 2020, even if there is a need for a bigger push in 2021.The key was that the team didn't surrender anything but short-term money to do so. No prospects, and no long-term contracts they will be sorry for. (Abreu's renewal might be a year too long and too expensive, but he's a clubhouse leader who might help keep the other guys around.) Dallas Keuchel is a fighter who can win on a Sox team with the new lineup we're likely to see. Gio Gonzalez will walk way too many guys, but he's a great back-of-the-rotation addition to hold the fort while Kopech and Rodon come back from injuries. Nomar Mazara is still super young, but has 4 years of experience and some upside. We needed lefty bats and he added one. We can add a platoon partner, or just use Leury Garcia and Adam Engel. The biggest addition was Yasmani Grandal, who turns catching into a strong point. His pitch framing should help corner nibblers Keuchel and Gonzalez, but also the young guys. His switch hitting adds another lefty bat. The last addition, so far, was Encarnacion, who struck me as superfluous at first blush, but now seems like a no-brainer. This is a HR hitting league, and Encarnacion has the potential, with all the other additions, to move the Sox from 6th worst (182 HRs) in baseball to top 6 (254 HRs - Steamer estimate). All these guys are role players, but they can all play above-average roles. In baseball, it's important to not have weak links, in the lineup, the rotation, and the bullpen. The new lineup may not have ANY weak links once Robert and Madrigal are up to speed. That doesn't mean they'll have superstars throughout, but they also won't have any negative WAR players like they used to have in multiples. The rotation still has Lopez and Cease as big question marks, but they are young players with upside. And there are reinforcements behind them who are working back from injury. The bullpen has some weak links, but everyone expects the Sox to add here before the season starts. And we may have arms in the minors who could eventually help. If they can find a synergy and get on a roll, who knows where the team might go. In baseball, it is sometimes the oddest things that can make a difference. Who'd have thought Gerardo Parra, the "baby shark", could have helped catapult the Nationals to a World Series title? He arrived last year at their 19-31 lowest moment, and completely changed the energy for the team. Sure, the Nats had a bunch of great players, but they weren't going anywhere until Parra loosened them up and got them playing up to their potential. Who knows how the 2020 White Sox will play together? I don't. But I do know that these moves have gotten a 50-year fan like me to get interested in White Sox baseball again. And my son along with me. Go SOX!!

Lol what a bad post. You sound like you have some weird personal agenda against Collins. In what world do you live in where it’s bad to have too many good, young, and cheap hitters? Abreu and Encarnacion are old, injuries happen, Vaughn isn’t a sure thing, exct...I can ramble off 20 good reasons to not just get rid of a mostly successful prospect that was drafted in the top 10. Just relax and let it play out, no need to rush anything unless someone really blows us away with a trade offer.

I dont understand coming to a thread titled "so what happens to Zack Collins" and then wondering why people are commenting on Zack Collins.

The talk is we are between an 80 and 87 win team at the moment. Many think we can't catch the Twins because we finished 28 games behind them past year, and that we'd have to see significant progress from our youngsters. I agree, but a some things should be factored in. 1. We were nearly a .500 club at the break last year. 2. That losing streak after the break was the main reason our record tanked. We hot swept in 4 games by the Royals of all teams. 3. We had a ton of injuries. 4. We had 7 players playing regularly that had no business doing so. 5. We don't have a major weakness. Our bullpen will get much better as well. 6. Our main guys should produce more positive results than last season. 7. Detroit and KC suck bad and we should fare better against Cleveland and Minny. If we can stay relatively healthy and progress a little, I don't see why we can't win 90 games next season. The Twins were able to catch Cleveland by upgrading their roster and I think we can do the same. Enjoy the good times!

Elijah Tatis?

Not really a personal attack when you literally said let’s trade Collins, a former top 100 prospect coming off a 140 wRC+ season as a 24 year old in AAA who has two options remaining, for a “bucket of balls”. You do seem to have some weird personal agenda with Zack.

It feels inevitable that Collins will be gifted to the A’s in a boneheaded trade and then spend the next decade posting .850 obs seasons

Robert is younger and was better at every level. He’s more athletic and has way more value in every way, and did not come up to mlb and look like he couldn’t catch up to fastballs.

Low 80's. Mostly because our rotation is still a pretty big unknown. We should mash though.

This part here, can we finally have a prospect who just blows up on the scene from jump street?

Would Hunter Pence be a better fit than Puig? Pence will be 37 next year, but still hits lefties pretty well. At his age he's well aware that he's not an every day player any more. Don't know about his defense in RF though.

On a seasonal level and on an individual level. I can get somewhat excited to watch our young talent even if the team is 52-70. I feel like I spent numerous days last summer whittling the hours away to a 1:10 game, anxiously counting down, planning my game snacks and buying some beer to enjoy with it, only for Dylan Covey to pitch and us be down 5-0 at the end of the first. And then, 25 minutes in, I’m wondering what the hell I ought to do for the rest of my day.

82-85 wins. They're still short an impact starter, an impact bat and a couple high leverage relievers.

I feel the same way about White Sox expectations. The amount of potential within the offense is honestly scary. Scary good. The pitching staff on the other hand is what makes me a little bit nervous. I hope our 2 newly aquired vets can stay healthy. If they do stay healthy and Dylan Cease and Michael Kopech dont totally bust, I think our pitching staff will be among the best in the AL. I've already prepped myself to expect Rodon and Lopez both to have alot of time coming out of the bullpen after the break. Hey, more depth! We need depth when we have alot of question marks currently in the pen. I predict that TA will regress to about a .290 avg but Im sure he will be working hard on his OBP because Im pretty sure he will be batting leadoff until Robert is ready for that role. Abreu's numbers will probably decline as well, and as much as I love Jose, I feel batting him 5th or maybe even 6th in the order makes alot of sense and honestly if it helps the team I dont see why Abreu wouldnt be ok with that?? (If anynody has more knowledge about that situation please fill me in.) James McCann will regress, and I also dont think Mazara is all of sudden going to become a star, but I do think he will hit .260 with about 25 Dingers. Not too shabby if that happens. I think Grandal, Moncada, EE and Giolito will have similar seasons to 2019 which would be great. I think Eloy and Robert are going to just CRUSH the ball this year. I think Cease and Kopech are going to pitch great in the 2nd half and just keep improving. I think Collins, Madrigal and Garcia will all help in major ways. I think Ricky Renteria will do his thing. He seems like a great guy and him being bilingual is so huge for this team. IMO we will have our hiccups in the first few monthes especially with our younger pitchers, but an amazing 2nd half is something I can see this squad pulling off. *My HONEST prediction is 89 wins...Sox win the AL Central...Giolito, Moncada, Grandal, and Jimenez all make the All Star Team. Eloy in the Derby. Robert AL Rookie of the year* This is my verrrry FIRST and verrrry optimistic post on Soxtalk! Dont be too hard on my positivity and lack of statistics guys!! I think we can all agree that this team is going to be extremely fun and exciting not only for White Sox fans but for Baseball fans around the league. I have not been this excited for a team since Ventura and Big Frank were in our lineup! Lets Go White Sox!

To be fair, Greg actually believes, with his genuine but insane baseball philosophy, that Timmy should be a catcher.

Nobody here is wanting to throw Collins into the trash, just saying he can spend another year in Charlotte or force the Sox’s hand

Here's what I think everything goes wrong is: Colome is 2nd half Colome all season, Herrera is still bad, Marshall and Cordero face serious regression, Giolito regresses, Anderson's batted ball luck evaporates, Robert is not ready, he hits for a low average with a lot of strikeouts, Keuchel's ERA matches his FIP, Cease and Lopez do not improve, Madrigal is at the low end of his projection sub .700 OPS, and Mazara does not improve, and at least one injury for Moncada or Eloy. Even with good seasons from Abreu, Grandal, Eloy, and Moncada, that team wins 75 games in a tough AL. Now, I don't think all that's going to happen, but it's all plausible. Now reverse it: Robert's an immediate impact player, Giolito is an all star, Kopech and Cease pitch close to their talent, Herrera is the guy he was last September, Mazara improves, Madrigal's closer to the higher end of his projections, Anderson's batted ball profile is a semi-permanent skill, Keuchel is rejuvenated... well, that could be a 95 win team. Lot of variables for the Sox. Maybe harder to predict than any team in the past several years.

How you haven’t been suspended yet for blatant trolling is beyond me.

I’m not sure that one has to force themselves to watch every single meaningless game from midseason 2016 through the end of 2019 to be considered a real fan. Everyone has different ways of dealing with disappointment. If the biggest problem the White Sox have is fighting over delineating bandwagon vs. true diehard fans, it’s a nice problem to have. There’s always been a very clear correlation (in MLB) between attendance increases following playoff success, rather than the other way around. In the end, does it really matter why each fan or family that comes to GRF enters the turnstiles?

Train EE for LF, Jiminez for RF, Mazara for CF.

I don't see why an admin still hasn't banned you for being a huge troll

Maybe this takes them out on puig

You act like all teams are smart. Why did we trade Tatis? Bad trades happen all the time. Not saying this trade will be good or bad as only time will tell. And not to be a smart ass but Steele who? We have a ton of corner outfielders in the minors and the hope is one of them takes the next step or Mazara does. Either way it was a great gamble on upside. If not we just sign Mookie Betts and the rest is history. I can dream

If that was true, then why trade him for Steele Walker? I like the trade a lot, but there has to be more to the story. If changes the Rangers made were working, then trading him seems dumb.

I absolutely love the Mazara trade. The upside could be big. The downside is probably 20 homers and 80 Rbi’s In a protected line up. Plus from what I heard about E.E being great with young players and Dominican guys Mazara has a chance to be a lot better. I’m pumped for him and the Sox.

The 2000 lineup was the highest scoring team in baseball. 1977 was only the 4th highest that year.

If you get breakouts from a few pitchers this very well could be a 100 win team. Probably not. But they COULD be that good

Not only the D on the stat sheet. The bonehead plays. The ones that are leurys specialty

Honestly, I think they could be really good. They will start the team as a competitive team. With probably Edwin and Grandal being our 4 and 5 hitters and Keuchel and Gio being our 2-3 starters. If everything goes right (which it probably won't), the middle of the order by June or July could be Robert-Moncada-Abreu-Eloy with Edwin and Grandal hitting 6 and 7. Wow would that be a deep and dangerous lineup. The order may not even matter that much in the middle, as they could have just a bunch of guys that can mash. In the rotation, Keuchel and Gio could legitimately be our 4 and 5 starters before too long. With Giolito, Kopech and Cease in front of them. When Rodon comes back, he may even force Gio out of the rotation (though I am an advocate of putting Rodon in the pen where I think he could stay healthier and just dominate). The most important question is can this team challenge the Yankees in a 7 game series. Things would have to go right, but I think they could. Having said that, I am so high on the futures of Kopech, Robert, Moncada and Eloy. I think Kopech has ace (as in one of the best few pitchers in baseball ace, not best guy on a particular team ace) potential. Put that with what Giolito has shown himself to be and that is a dangerous combination. With Robert, the sky is the limit. I wouldn't be surprised, if as a rookie (at least if he is up early) hits .265 with 35 doubles and 30 HRs. Not that I am expecting that, but I don't think it is out of the question either. Moncada is probably the most complete player on the team, and with a couple years of experience now, could be a legit candidate for an MVP, not saying he will be better than Trout, but he can do everything. If he improves just a little bit, he is an elite player. Once he got his feet under him, and his injuries behind him, Eloy mashed. His September was truly monstrous, and if that is a window into the hitter he can be, yikes. Having those three in the lineup with veterans like Abreu, Grandal and Edwin, and that is a tough group to face. I haven't even mentioned Tim, who is a completely dynamic player who is just scraping the surface of his talents and entering his prime. I wouldn't be surprised if he hit 25 HRs and 40 doubles next season. I am a bit curious to where in the lineup he hits, but wherever that is, I know Tim will hit and hit and hit. The pitching will determine how good they can be. The offense will be good. They will score runs. They'll be fun. If it comes together for Cease and Kopech, they could be among the best teams in the game next year. And they should just get better over the coming seasons.

I don't really want to make a numbers prediction, but I want to highlight points 4 and 5. This is HUGE. Some people have expressed disappointment that we got mid-tier free agents this offseason and not stars. First off, I'll ignore the fact that Grandal is one of the best catchers in baseball and Zack Wheeler has POTENTIAL to be a star but isn't actually one, yet. I never thought this team needed to add stars. Moncada, Gio and Timmy are already there, Jimenez is borderline and probably secures the label this year, and Robert, Madrigal, Kopech, Cease, and Vaughn are waiting in the wings. That's far more actual star power than, say, the 2005 team had. Our problem last year was weaknesses (which the 2005 team had almost none of). CF, RF, 2B, DH, most of our rotation, those were all enormous holes. We needed to fill them. Now we have. So yeah, I think this team will be very good and only bound to get better.

Iglesias the SS, not closer

Yes thank you for the statistical help which backed up exactly what I was saying.I stuck up for Colome all year because he was getting results but I knew his FIp showed he was pitching in some luck. I believe that only to a certain extent because results matter more and people use FIP to push the narrative of future gloom and are ready to pounce even during a slight bit of misfortune that all relievers go through. I remember distinctly when Marshall had a bad spell and the reactionaries on here game threading about he is who we thought he was. People now use some of these stats to take all the fun out of watching a game. He's getting lucky. Stats say he isn't as good as he looks. That is not to say I am blind to these things which why I posted what you quoted. We need more K's and less walks that was plain to see without advanced stats and we all know the fickle nature of arms in the pen to begin with. I am not so concerned with Colome because he has been a consistent reliever for a few years but he will probably be worse just because he was very good and that is hard to sustain. Bummer is the only other one we can trust to a high degree. The rest are hit and miss.

I could see a free agent signing and a trade to add 2 bullpen arms.

MLBTR painted a much more bleak picture here: https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2019/12/white-sox-rumors-bullpen-relievers.html “Collectively, White Sox relievers ranked 14th in the Majors in ERA (4.33), but that’s largely a function of the quality results posted by Colome, Bummer, Marshall and Cordero. And there’s also reason to take that number with a grain of salt; the Chicago bullpen’s matching 4.69 FIP and xFIP ranked 18th and 21st among MLB teams while posting the fifth-highest walk rate (10.8 percent) and fifth-worst strikeout rate (21.7 percent) in all of baseball. White Sox relievers were tied with Royals relievers for the worst K-BB% in the Majors.” The bullpen definitely had some luck on their side and even overachieved last season. Even if you factor in positive regression from Herrera and Fry to bounce back, it is still not a very good bullpen. As far as reinforcements go,I don’t want to count on anyone from upper minors or NRIs to break out. If someone does great, I’m sure we will find a spot for them, but damn it lets go out and sign two of the top arms left and build a playoff caliber bullpen (provided they aren’t more than 2 year deals). A good bullpen shortens ballgames and helps this young staff tremendously.

Puig is a clubhouse cancer and is not wanted on this team. The Sox team last year was a close knit group made up of team players and not single players looking for attention (ala Puig, Sammy Sosa). I love how the bullpen greets the starting pitcher in the outfield for his walk to the bullpen. The new additions Keuchel and Gio will mentor the young pitchers and are quality team players same goes for EE. Mazara will hopefully follow their lead and not become a distraction. Leury Garcia is our platoon RF and Engle will back-up Robert in CF until Rutherford, Basbe, or Adolfo arrive. All we need at this point is some bullpen help and for Herrara to have a bounce back and 85-90 wins is not out of reach.

Same. Into the race in mid-august would have me giddy. Low bar, but we've seen some bad shit...

Except there’s a huge dropoff from Top 4 to Collins...then again to all those pitchers like Stiever, Thompson and Dahlquist. Steele Walker is now #12 for the Rangers, for example.

Don't think we need an IFer. We've got Mendick & Leury with Madrigal up in early May. Get a couple of bullpen guys and let's roll!!

Give me Harris, McHugh, & Holt and I’m feeling pretty dam good.

I believe the choice is between Collins getting lots of at bats and experience behind the plate at AAA (facing weaker pitching that we already know he can hit) or getting very limited and sporadic playing time in Chicago against MLB pitching. The problem is, if he hits poorly against MLB pitching we will have no idea if that is because he got a limited number of at bats and never found his groove, or if he just can't hit MLB pitching. In my opinion the lesser of two evils is to give him another year at Charlotte, and assume he replaces McCann in 2021 when his contract expires. I understand that we won't know if he can hit MLB pitching at that point, but don't think we'll know based on limited MLB playing time in 2020 anyway.

Damn, I was really hoping they wouldn't be committed to Mazara, that hurts

Collins can back up first base, C and DH...I would have preferred them not sign EE and give Collins lots of AB's but I think they really don't want him to be a DH but their regular catcher by 2022. Catch 25 games this year, 50 next year and 100 the year after that? This year, with the added roster space they can have him work every day with Grandal and McCann to learn the art of catching.

Just so I'm clear...you are giving up on a 24 year old left handed hitting catcher, who hit .282/.403/.538 last year in AAA who Led all of the minor leagues in walks the year before...hit .320 with over 1.000 OPS in 3 years in college and led all college players in walks who has an elite batting eye and plus power...because of 30 bad at bats in June/July? Because that seems like a stupid opinion. You also seem to hold it against him that he has a catchers body type? And think that he's....clueless? Interesting.

Yes.

With Timmy at catcher, Mazara in center, Collins in right, and McGrandal at short, who's gonna stop us?!

Not bringing him up for no reason at all would be a good place to start.

Says the guy who just brought him up completely off topic and had nothing to do with the current conversation.

Engels work against lefties was great last year as well. I don't think they need to upgrade. Save the money for pitching or next season.

From all accounts, the most hated person ever at the Score