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JR needs currency for the afterlife.

Who is taking stuff personally here?

Holy fuck you are insane.

You realize that the reason we don't have Colas TODAY is because we dealt international dollars for cost savings which we never used, right?

It's 2020, we aren't going backwards and rebuilding anymore.

Also considering the sox had a chance to draft Howard. If they wanted him that bad they would have him. That post makes absolutely no sense.

Padres definitely doing their best to win most unlikable roster

Yeah, I hate the Padres but they have the depth to make these moves. And that’s another reason why us not spending our full international bonus pool is so stupid as it’s potential prospect currency going to waste.

Why? It will have cost us talent no matter what and was stupid as fuck to do. And why are you demanding these fans apologize and then say they shouldn’t take shit personally. Talk about a walking contradiction.

Wtf? Why would you even want to do that?

Lance Lynn was not a Top 10 pitcher in baseball in 2020 and will not be in 2021. A great deal of your argument here relies on hyperbole and an inability to distinguish between MiLB levels.

I think people here know who Howard is and knows he's a prospect who could develop into something. But no one has a lick of clue why we would want to trade Vaughn, drafted 3rd overall a year before Howard, who is a universally higher ranked prospect by a mile, for howard. But wait, we get to throw in Kopech, who is still a top 30 prospect in his own right. Still don't have a lick of clue after reading this post.

Tampa Bay got a nice return. They always seem to come out on top in these big package deals.

I agree with this. Of the rumored names (Castillo, Marquez, Snell, and Darvish) on the market for starting pitching I have the least faith in Snell over the next three years. Obviously Snell is going to get a bigger prospect return than Darvish since he's younger and costs basically half as much, but just for on field performance he's the one I wanted the Sox to trade for the least.

Why because their team rebuilt and is now going for it with a long term plan vs the dumpster diver owner looking for a bargain crying poor.

I hate the Padres.

I know JJ can be polarizing, but this is a good speech.

At some point we will improve diplomacy with Cuba and the Sox can have one series there every season.

"Ok Rick, you can get your pick of basically any major leaguer for Kopech and Vaughn." "Ed Howard." Wait, what?" "Ed. Howard." "The kid doesn't have any professional at bats yet. You don't want, like, Snell? Castillo?" "ACE program for life." "I mean, if you're dead set on the Cubs, at least toss in Darvish?" "You're right. I better give them Crochet as well."

Listen to the Locked on Sox podcast with James Fox. He describes a way for Colas to technically still play at the Sox facility in unofficial games with other amateurs. He just isn't considered a Sox organizational guy until 2022.

At some point we're going to just see a photo of Abreu, Robert, Moncada, Grandal, Cespedes, and Vera having dinner with Colas.

I don't know what his looks have to do with it but I guess he is handsome in a roguish way

Giving Lopez another shot in the rotation makes me cringe. I mean, it probably will happen when injuries occur at some point in 2021. But that's the only path that is acceptable to me. The Sox need to get a #4/5 starter, period. Be it Quintana, Musgrove or someone else. I would worry that if it's Quintana or someone else on the free agent market, that might take away the dollars that could otherwise be used on a shutdown closer. And I keep thinking back to 2016, where the Indians and Cubs rode shutdown pens to the World Series. We shouldn't underestimate what a killer pen could do for the Sox.

Are you Crazy ? That is Insane. What are you smoking ?

Why not trade one of our most important pitchers plus a top 20 prospect who will likely be major league ready next year for a high school prospect who is years away from helping when we’re entering our competing window? It makes perfect sense to me!

I simply asked what it might take to get Ed Howard and opined what the Cubs might demand. Despite that a few of you personally excoriated me like I am some kind of stupid mofo. Are you people alright? What triggered you? Are you really that self absorbed, looking to one up an anonymous poster, or are you just that angry. Trust me, your responses rolled off me like water off a duck and I will not nor do I ever respond in kind with hostile personal responses. If you choose to escalate this, go ahead but I am out on this thread after I say one more thing to explain why I inquired about Ed Howard. Remember the White Sox passing on Howard.... "White Sox are well positioned to make a big splash in tonight’s draft. They have to at least be strongly tempted to use the 11th pick overall on the best position player prospect from Chicago in years, Mount Carmel High shortstop Ed Howard. Howard has been on their radar since he led the Jackie Robinson West team to a title in the Little League World Series. He has spent time in the Amateur City Elite program run by the White Sox, which helps inner city players hone both the baseball skills and academics necessary to attend college. Recently Howard has been mentored by Sox shortstop Tim Anderson, who he told the Athletic’s James Fegan is his favorite player. " So, yes, I still want a kid from the South Side, a Sox fan who came up in the White Sox Amatuer program. As far as what it might take, that is merely conjecture. I think the Cubs might want Vaughn plus another high level prospect. In my opinion, Rick Hahn and the Sox made a mistake in not selecting Howard. I think they may have made another mistake in taking Vaughn, a one dimensional player who I do not believe can play defense at the major league level at any position , including first base. And he cannot run the bases. Well, time will tell on those picks. Meanwhile, the Cubs might have a need for a DH with the departure of Kyle Schwarber, but Howard is probably viewed as a more valuable asset than Vaughn at this point, by a lot. That is why they might want additional compensation in a potential trade. I think they would probably want a pitcher and they might start asking for a top pitching prospect like Kopech or Burdi or Stiever. I am just a life long loyal White Sox fan putting a scenario out to try to encourage friendly conversation during the off-season. IMHO strictly as a fan, I would like to see the Sox open a conversation with the Cubs about Howard and see where it might go, because I think Howard fits better on the South side. Well, nice talk here, as usual. Anyway, magnanimously wishing all White Sox fans and their families good health, peace and prosperity , as well as a World Series Championship in 2021.

We have to wait for him to take his permanent dirt nap before this gets fixed ala Wirtz.

The guy has been part of a major league roster for 4 years now and still haven't done much to show he's a starting catcher at the major leagues. He was projected to be the 3rd catcher for Padres before Campusano got busted for weed. He's living on laurels of his past prospect rankings, I don't think he has significantly more value than Collins. Also as for the rest of the names, I was using MLB prospect grades as a comparison.

Padres paid a decent price but to pull off trades for Clevinger and Snell in a matter of months and still have so much depth is extremely impressive.

Package is about like kopech or vaughn plus stiever. Sox could have matched that of course but sox don't really need to do that due to the lynn move. This is why I like the lynn move, might be a slight overpay but saves top prospects so kopech or cease have a year to emerge.

Way too light IMO.

You never trade with the Rays. You never win. 2 of these 4 on the return will be great...guaranteed.

I think most people here would have been perfectly fine giving up Crochet/Stiever/Collins/Rutherford for a few years of cheap control of Snell. Getting Blake Snell without giving up Kopech or Vaughn would have been a massive steal, especially with Crochet's elbow prolly being a ticking time bomb.

Not going to be upset that the AL got weaker.

You gotta admire San Diego's aggressiveness. The Clevinger trade has a setback, so they go and get an even better #1.

I do not deserve this honor. Welcome to Soxtalk.

This the same jackass who said a few weeks ago that the Hendriks signing should wrap up soon? Or was that the other slapdick?

Luis Robert reported on Zack Wheeler?

That will be so cool.

Are you drunk? Lance Lynn the last three years by any metric is a top ten pitcher in baseball...though in fairness I didn't use the 2021 stats that you see in your head. It also seems you prefer to use the last two starts in September of the COVID year as the entire basis for comparison of pitchers and if we can all agree that this is the way to do it...you win....Musgrove is WAY better than Lynn. As far as me not understanding Milb levels....wow...there are LEVELS in the minor leagues??? That's why I come to you for insight...you not only see the future but you also have keen insight into arcane knowledge like "AA" and "A" baseball. Maybe my problem in analysis is I stuck to age, Pipeline scouting stats, athleticism, track record, and multiple rating sites showing DD #5 and Stiever #6 in Sox system when I should have used your 2021 "vision" stats and the last two starts in COVID year (though please ignore DD's last two starts and concentrate more on his 2021 stats) to come to my hyperbolic claim that Stiever isn't garbage. For you convenience here is the actual definition of hyperbole as you seem to be so very confused: Hyperbole: 1) obvious and intentional exaggeration. 2) an extravagant statement or figure of speech not intended to be taken literally

Kemp in Georgia and Reynolds in Iowa, along with Noem in SD...the former finally stood up to Trump these last 4-6 weeks, but not knowing anything about how the virus is transmitted months into a pandemic is pretty pathetic.

I wonder what it might take to get the Cubs to trade Ed Howard? Something like Kopech plus Vaughn ?

Ok the only absurd comment made is "Lopez could be the worst starting pitcher in baseball next year". Of course Lopez could be...or Musgrove or Kershaw...we don't know the future until it happens. What Lopez is, and it has been said over and over again...is a once exciting pitcher that seems to be failed. What Musgrove is is a mediocre pitcher on his third organization that is a year older than Lopez, has about the same career WAR and outside of two end of the season starts in late September of COVID year had a 5.5 ERA the previous 160 low pressure innings (Pirates bad) he's pitched against the non-DH league. And still NO ONE HAS SAID Lopez>Musgrove...people have been saying Musgrove is not so much better that you give up a top 6 prospect...let alone top 6 ++. And it has also been said that Quintana for free is better than Musgrove for a 3 assets. As for your weird take on Stiever vs Dunning...why? Here is 2019 MLB Pipeline scouting grades Pitcher A Fastball: 60 | Curveball: 55 | Slider: 55 | Changeup: 55 | Control: 55 | Overall: 50 Pitcher B Fastball: 60 | Curveball: 60 | Slider: 55 | Changeup: 50 | Control: 55 | Overall: 50 Pitcher A sat out 2019 with Tommy John Surgery Pitcher B pitched 145 innings in 2019 and had nearly 10K/9 and a 6-1 Strike out to walk rate. Pitcher A is three years older than Pitcher B Pitcher A threw 34 pretty average major league innings last year Pitcher B threw 6 pretty bad major league innings last year. And your position is that Pitcher A is worth more than a top ten pitcher in baseball and Pitcher B is worthless? Interesting.

Because it is easily possible that López is not beyond repair and there is reason to believe more than before that it might be possible, and that that situation is preferable to giving up anything, let alone some of our notable prospects, to acquire somebody that isn't going to move the needle at all. It's just a waste.

I don't mean those guys for Holiday. I meant those packages are better than Holiday, and I would gladly trade them for what Milwaukee traded. The Pelicans got Bledsoe, George Hill and Bucks’ first round picks in 2020, 2025, and 2027, along with the rights to swap picks in 2024 and 2026. That is a haul.

These numbers are pretty damn good, aren’t they?

Of course you trade him, it’s not like they’re going to compete during his contract.

They did great work under crazy conditions and helped keep a dictator from stealing an election.

This is where you rely on fWAR over bWAR for pitcher evaluation. fWAR uses FIP as their basis for pitcher's WAR while BR uses runs allowed. The former provides a better indicator than the latter. Musgrove since becomes a full time starter 3 years ago: 2018 2.2 WAR / 19 GS 2019 3.3 WAR / 31 GS 2020 1 WAR/ 8 GS If you go with Statcast metrics, his xERA also suggests a pretty good pitcher. All in all, I think He's a a decent #3 starter who will give you 3-3.5 WAR in a full season, will cost somewhere around $8M over the next two years. I am not a Madrigal hater though, so I wouldn't give up Madrigal for him. Any combination of Stiever, Adolfo, Collins, Rutherford would be fine by me.

Also, if this turns into a Buehrle thread, I need to share one of my favorite articles ever: The Curious Case of Mark Buehrle It's essentially a breakdown of how Mark was able to defy every single bit of conventional wisdom when it came to pitching. These two paragraphs are a fun nugget.