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What you posted earlier is so true. Jr is to blame for most of this. Always tripping on a 20 to pick up a dollar. It's his fault for tatis. Not wanting to pick up Shields full salary was obviously the reason tatis was involved in the trade. The trading Internatonal pool money to the rangers cost the sox a potentially good player. Everything you said is so spot on. He's so short sighted.

Jerry is going for it with a 76 year old manager, a 34 year old 40 lbs. overweight pitcher on a 1 year contract, and a reclimation project in RF. SD, the NL version of the White Sox signs Machado to a contract the White Sox couldn't afford. They trade for Clevenger at the deadline. Trade for Snell. About to get Darvish and maybe some more. One guy wants to win, one guy wants to die with as much money as possible.

I’m taking Padres easily

Yeah, the Sox seem surprised that the top names on the market generally require the most money.

Hahn and KW must have been hitting the StairMaster at the gym today.

Could you imagine the type of surrender the Sox would be doing if the Dodgers were in their division? JR couldn't have a better set up. There are no big spenders in the division, the only division you can say that, and he still can't dominate it.

What has this Colas guy ever broken?

Donald Trump

The Cubs dumped their best pitcher, are in absolute teardown mode, and have zero hope for anything but steeper decline on the horizon. The Sox are one of the hottest teams in the league, just added a top 5 in CY voting starter, and have two months to add more. The general mood and level of despondency on the teams’ respective message boards is roughly the same. “What a league.”

He is owed almost 60 mil and is 34. The Cubs took what they could get. The fact some of their fans thought it should be a Sale level deal is more of an indication that there probably was lead paint in the bleachers and they have long term brain damage.

Jerry needs to disappear already, he is single handedly driving this rebuild attempt into the ground.

The thing is we should be able to tell the difference between adding a #3 starter, average LF, and good closer to a 72 win team and getting 2 cy young type pitchers to a playoff team.

Imagine how much value Jerry could create for his ownership group by building a truly dominant team and taking over a weak Chicago sports scene? If there was ever a time to take-short losses for a long-term gains, now would be it, because this team is so god damn likable & exciting. With the Cubs’ curse being over and a retooling appearing to be in front of them, the causal fan could be won over in big numbers and the Sox could quickly become the city’s baseball team. But instead of investing in his product and building something special (and valuable), Jerry is going to operate as the conservative, risk adverse cheap fuck he’s always been. And unfortunately for us, that likely won’t change until the day he finally leaves this world. Sucks to be that grim, but it’s the reality of being a White Sox fan.

The fact that Hahn said that he had a whole interview list that never got to once Jerry latched on to Tony shows otherwise. I don't know that he gets involved in everything, but JR does get what he wants when he does want something, That much is clear. We have other instances in this teams history, such as the contracts which were directly negotiated by Jerry.

"Benetti strikes a near-perfect balance between taking the game seriously and just sitting back and enjoying baseball." "One of my favorite booths in the game. They mix “new school” analytics with classic analysis and seem to have an enjoyable time doing it." Those two quotes sum up why I love this pairing.

Lol if you think Giolito has a 2.9 win projection

Yet another instance of Reinsdorf holding this franchise back because he is cheap.

Soooo now that the Padres did a thing we are back to bashing the FO for not trading the prospects we previously wanted them to hold on to huh?

The day JR is no longer owner of the Chicago White Sox will be a phenomenal day. So tired of his half ass efforts of going for it since 1981.

JR'S cheapness has at least given me unlimited, giddy replay value in MLB video games to construct "fantasy" rosters comprised of players we were "supposed" to get.

Anyone else amazed that COVID doesn’t exist in San Diego?

Keuchel has had a higher WAR than Snell three out of the last four years.

Wrong, they do NOT! Gore - legitimate superstar potential - You could argue Kopech has the potential to be a true ACE too, AND Crochet Abrams - looks to be a legitimate prospect. Low power, high average (sounds like Madrigal?) Campusano - again looks to be good, Sox don't really have a match here Hassell, Weathers, Marcano, Lawson compared to Vaughn, Thompson, Kelley, Dalquist, Cespedes No way that the Padres have more talent on the way than the Sox do.

This is insane. That's one hell of a get for a team like the Padres who are already star studded

Surely you can’t be serious. Yes he sets the budget but he does way more than just that. He has to approve all major transactions and by default decides how much long-term risk we’re willing to take on in a deal. He is the reason Machado plays for the Padres and not our White Sox. He is the reason we will never sign a free agent pitcher beyond a five year contract. Jerry doesn’t want to risk any long-term dead money and therefore doesn’t allow us to realistically operate at the top levels of free agency. He also decides how resources will get allocated. Jerry doesn’t like investing huge dollars into high school kids at the top of the draft, so Shirley and staff must adjust accordingly (example: Madrigal over Kelenic). He also doesn’t like the dirtiness of recruiting 14 year old LatAm prospects, so instead of potentially landing a future star we spend $2.5M on a future backup infielder in Yogurt Sanchez. And for years, Jerry refused to go over-slot in the draft because of “morals”, while guys like Theo Epstein look advantage of a major market inefficiency to load up on talent. Beyond that, he is both old school in his ways and loyal to a fault to his “people” creating a culture with a clear lack of accountability and a decreased focus on innovation. That has slowed down our ability to modernize our scouting & player development functions and get on equal footing in terms of analytics. And to add further insult to injury, he just undermined his front office by forcing a manager on them they didn’t want all so he could make up for what he deems his biggest mistake as baseball owner. Jerry is a bad owner plain & simple and is no doubt an impediment to sustainable success.

Hopefully you aren't trying to equate the "moves" of San Diego to what the Sox have done so far, because they do not belong in the same universe. You have two teams who are in essentially the same position of a rebuild to championship transition, and the Sox are acting like they know their window is almost over while the Padres are acting like they want to win for the next five years. They absolutely destroyed us during the talent acquisition phase, while we concentrated only on top end talent, and ignored the international market to our detriment. The Sox COULD be shifting into a phase of owning the AL Central for the next five years, but they just don't want to act like it.

I absolutely agree with that. It is obvious that Hahn had his eye set on Hinch, and from the reactions of the players, had already pitched them on the idea. JR 100% overruled that. But that only supports that idea that JR interfered here to create the situation HE wanted, and not the one the front office wanted.

The problem here is they cant pick a fucking lane this offseason. My fear is that this is going to blow up in their face. The division is ripe for the taking. They have set this up to make a long term run. Its now time to win. They just need to push the chips in now. The owner is more inclined to take his money with him to the afterlife than to spend it. So we get half assed attempts. Players who would augment this team to push it over the top, are now out of reach. So we have to use trading chits with prospects. But we dont want to go all in now because the farm is only top heavy. Because while this rebuilding was all going on, the owner was buying older guys who still cost money and then was clamping down saving pennies here and there with stupid trades. So to save some money on the back end he uses international bonus pool money that other teams covet because its a lottery ticket as a way to sweeten the pot. We have sent 1.2 million dollars of International bonus money to the Rangers in the last year and a half. I think that would be nice to have in our model especially with our cuban pipeline. If they want to be the Rays, then be the rays. If they want to play with the big boys then be the big boys and spend. You cant just sit back and do nothing or coast. They dont know what they want to be. Its almost like they want to do the twins model without spending the time and effort on the development system Minny put in.

Adding Yu also reeks of an offseason that everyone doesn't shut the hell about, has the starters on every magazine cover, gets called a super team, and still loses the division by 6 games.

They will....and I think I’m already sick of hearing “Katz will fix ‘em”

They are both amazing. Such a joy to not actually have to mute my TV like I did in the Hawk years.

It's a different take though. He is using science, analytics and real observation...not just have him throw a cutter. The Padres and the White Sox were already on the path to potentially be the best two teams in baseball for the next 5 years anyways...now we may just find out the answer of should you be overly aggressive and trade away everyone to win, or should you win with your youth. I am not a Cease fan at all...but If Katz really has a fixable change that science backs up...it is better than any overpay could ever be...and allows the sox to lock up Giolito. I have FULL faith that Kopech is going to be nasty and a #2 pitcher in this league...the Sox just need the bridge to get to him - Kluber would be my guy...you can always trade him at deadline if he looks solid, or if Cease implodes he takes his spot.

The advantage I have is I’ve actually watched Sox baseball in the last two years

It's not a matter of the Sox FO being unwilling to make trades to help the team now; heck they did it a few weeks ago for a 1 year player. The problem is their inability to develop a rich and deep farm system that allows the team to make these trades. To get 1 year of Lynn, they had to trade a pitcher out of their rotation.

The padres owner has cleared them to win. Our owner is trying to figure out why he cant trade more international bonus money or find a fixer upper flawed free agent we can get on the cheap. There has to be some diamond in the rough he can find. Maybe more late 30 year olds, maybe a broken down pitcher who is coming back that no one wants. Maybe someone who wants to live here or has no other options. He righted his only wrong in life, now its time for his daily swim in his gold ala Scrooge McDuck. Remember smart business men go for second not first to keep the marks I mean customers hungry looking for more.

There is gonna be a possible 6-7 win team from the NFC East. It really doesn't matter once you are in, everyone is 0-0 look, everyone who wants the tank and sell and fire everybody, I get that. But that ship is sailed this season, the damage is done. Time to shut that part of your brain off and just watch. If the Bears get in, crazy things can happen. They probably won't, lol, but they can

Thanks. No one was hurt with the Christmas bombing, so plenty to be thankful for there.

I dunno man, don't ask dumb questions and you won't get dumb responses huh?

Crochet not a chance with his likely reliever profile. Kopech’s the closest. I would think 75% of MLB front offices or more would prefer Patino. Most notable is not giving up Abrams, either. Better package here than the Clevinger one because of the possibility of Mejia breaking out and obviously Patino’s got a ton of potential, but there’s more risk for the Rays as well (compared to the Indians, who were almost forced to trade their guy.)

I still wouldn’t want the Padres MLB and MiLB rosters over ours. Really not feeling their position players or pitching really. Not to take anything away from them but it looks really good but not great. I see great over here with my homer glasses. They can’t touch great

Yea but it's taking forever

Yes, I know. Did you not catch the hyperbole in my joke? That was the point.

I think people here know who Howard is and knows he's a prospect who could develop into something. But no one has a lick of clue why we would want to trade Vaughn, drafted 3rd overall a year before Howard, who is a universally higher ranked prospect by a mile, for howard. But wait, we get to throw in Kopech, who is still a top 30 prospect in his own right. Still don't have a lick of clue after reading this post.

Padres paid a decent price but to pull off trades for Clevinger and Snell in a matter of months and still have so much depth is extremely impressive.

You never trade with the Rays. You never win. 2 of these 4 on the return will be great...guaranteed.

Why because their team rebuilt and is now going for it with a long term plan vs the dumpster diver owner looking for a bargain crying poor.

JR needs currency for the afterlife.

That seems a little light to me. TB should have been able to pull Gore.

I know JJ can be polarizing, but this is a good speech.