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Elijah Tatis for Price

I was very loudly against EE last year. EE has been a GREAT player for most of his career...but at some point you put the 38 year olds out to pasture. Same with Cruz...Cruz is clearly not garage but at some point the steroid police are going to catch up to him and he will be EE 2.0. Meanwhile I think you are underselling the potential for Vaughn...he is same age as Frank Thomas, similar background, similar hitting profile...high average, high OBP, Plus power...and at 23 Frank put up a 7+ WAR. How do we know Vaughn can't be like that...ok Frank is a once in a generation hitter...but it's kind of been a generation. The guys that should know watched Vaughn every day at the alternate site and are basically saying...nope we're good at DH. AND I think you are too harsh on Collins...in 2018 led the whole minor leagues in walks, in 2019 he struggled in his first 30 MLB at bats...went down to AAA and finished with a .950 OPS at Charlotte and then came up late and put up nearly an .800 OPS in Sept/Oct (over .950 his last dozen games in 2019), and in spring training in 2020 he looked good at the plate. His problem was we had two all star catchers all ready and a full time DH. I think he can hit...I hope he can catch.

Let's take a look at where the Sox could be better/worse this year. Here's my ranking based on the difference between the 2021 player/coach and the 2020 version they are replacing. I've included expected improvements from existing Sox players. BETTER 1. Lance Lynn over Dane Dunning. Dunning had a nice 2020, but even if he'd returned, he wouldn't be the workhorse Lynn will be. 2. Ethan Katz over Don Cooper. This is speculative until we see what Katz can actually do with our young pitchers. The ranking is based mostly on how he helped transform Lucas Giolito, and how many pitchers he might help. 3. Tony LaRussa over Rick Renteria. I'm guessing this may receive the most ridicule, but count me among those who think a HOF manager who will soon have the most wins for a manager in the integrated years of baseball, with 6 Pennants and 3 World Series titles with an AL and an NL franchise, 4 time Manager of the Year and voted in the top five 12 other times, among many other achievements, will do a better job, especially in tight regular season and postseason games than Rick Renteria. 4. Yoan Moncada v 2020 Yoan Moncada. Of the players who may improve this year, you have to put Moncada on the top of the list. In 2019, he had a .915 OPS, 140 OPS+, 4.8 WAR. In 2020, and that probably wasn't his ceiling. This dropped to .705, 94, and 0.7. I hope/expect him to get back to his 2019 ways. 5. Luis Robert v. 2020 Luis Robert. Robert wasn't bad overall in 2020, but he had a horrible stretch in Sept/Oct, going from a 1.015 OPS in August to a .409 OPS in Sept/Oct. He finished at .738 OPS for the year. Expect him to start to figure it out and push that OPS up into the .800-900 range. 6. Dylan Cease over 2020 Dylan Cease. I think Katz will work some magic on Cease and get him to start to realize his potential. 7. Michael Kopech over whomever was at the back end of our rotation. Whenever Kopech comes up, he will be much better than the many pitchers we used last year at the back of our rotation. It's just a matter of time until he's competing for the TOR. 8. Liam Hendriks over Alex Colome. Colome doesn't rank among the top relievers in the game, and wasn't valued enough by clubs to get more than the modest contract he signed with Minnesota. He was excellent at converting saves, however. But Hendriks is seen as the best reliever in baseball at the moment, and should be more reliable in high-pressure playoff games. 9. Andrew Vaughn over Edwin Encarnacion. EE fell off a cliff last year, with a .627 OPS and 70 OPS+. He hit only .157. Andrew Vaughn is going to easily eclipse those numbers even if he has a few rough patches as a rookie. 10. Adam Eaton over Nomar Mazara. Eaton had a bad 2020, just like Mazara. But it was still better than Mazara's dreadful .589 OPS and 64 OPS+. 11. Aaron Bummer v. 2020 Aaron Bummer. He just needs to stay healthy to vastly improve on last year. 12. Garrett Crochet v. 2020 Garrett Crochet. The Sox current plan is to use him in the bullpen in multi-inning roles to prep him for starting in 2022. If he stays healthy, he'll improve the bullpen no matter how he's used. 13. Eloy Jimenez v. 2020 Eloy Jimenez. Eloy had an excellent year. But he didn't hit the most HRs on the team like he said he would. He may in 2021. 14. Carlos Rodon v. 2020 Carlos Rodon. We don't really know what we might get out of Rodon, but anything would be better than what he gave last year. If he pitches like he did in 2018 or before, his improvement would likely rank higher on this list. 15. Reynaldo Lopez v. 2020 Reynaldo Lopez. As with Rodon, Lopez doesn't have to do much to improve on his 2020 season. At the moment, he looks to be starter depth rather than having a spot in the rotation. Another Katz project. 16. Tim Anderson v. 2020 Tim Anderson. As great as he has been, I don't think TA has reached his ceiling yet. 17. Adding Jerry Narron as catchers coach. To speed the development of Zack Collins and others, the Sox added a new specialty coach who has helped other catchers. The Sox also added an analytics person, which may end up being a positive, but will never be something one can evaluate. WORSE 1. Zack Collins v. James McCann. This will be the biggest drop off on the team. But the Sox need to give Collins ABs to let him develop and see what they have. 2. Jose Abreu v. 2020 Jose Abreu. Abreu will remain great, but hard to see him repeating his MVP numbers. 3. Dallas Keuchel v. 2020 Dallas Keuchel. He's not going to post another sub-2 ERA. UNRATED There are other players you could rank on the better or worse scale, but I didn't. These include Yasmani Grandal, Nick Madrigal, Adam Engel, Leury Garcia, Danny Mendick, Lucas Giolito, Cody Heuer, Evan Marshall, Jimmy Cordero, Zack Burdi, Matt Foster, and Jace Fry. I would put letting go of Gio Gonzalez and Steve Cishek in the plus category but there is no 1-to-1 replacement. OVERVIEW AND CONCLUSION This may seem to be an overly optimistic and rosy analysis. It is certainly optimistic and rosy. The question is whether it is "overly" so. Injuries could certainly derail some of these projected improvements. But for the players who stay healthy, I think the improvements I've ranked here can be reasonably expected, with some more significant than others. According to my rosy expectations, the Sox will improve at Manager Pitching coach Catching instruction SS 3B LF CF RF DH 3 starting pitching slots, and 1-2 depth starter slota Closer Top lefty set-up man Second lefty who throws 100 mph Meanwhile, I only expect them to drop off at: Backup catcher 1B 1 starting pitching slot When looking at the offseason, analysts tend to just focus on the new players. But the White Sox are loaded with young developing talent that hasn't reached its prime, and that's where their biggest improvements are likely to be seen. For example, I ranked the addition of Lance Lynn #!, but the Sox' most expensive signing - Liam Hendriks, only #8, because we had a good closer, with the Eaton signing at #10, and Rodon deal at #14. If those were the only changes from 2020, the Sox would not be the contenders many of us expect. It's the additions of Kopech and Vaughn, the new coaches, and expected improvements from lots of existing players that will make a much bigger impact.

Since 2006, the Yankees have made the playoffs 11 times. Since 2006, the Dodgers have made the playoffs 11 times. Since 1906 the Chicago White Sox have made the playoffs 11 times. Practically the same thing, no idea why Sox fans would be upset that when one of those 11 times, after years and years of tanking and failure, the Sox wouldn't actually support the rare opportunity they have had to make the playoffs twice in a row... for the first time in team history. Between you, Poppy and VA fan you guys could supply the entire town of Flint with the fresh water that you carry for this organization.

People miss the point of why this is a big miss. a) this is and was the best match in terms of a top tier pitcher willing to play within Jerry's rules of no more than 4 year contracts. b) this completely matched the "all-in" period and "the money will be spent" period. b 2.0) The sox try and mostly have successfully tricked fans into believing the money was spent on the Eloy and Robert, etc. extensions. It's really just a crock of shit. Those guys were going to get those numbers in arbitration no matter what. So what we did was just give them a bit more * guaranteed. They took a haircut to secure the bag. But to act like "money was spent" is ludicrous. Keuchel .... Grandal .... Hendriks .... that's money being spent. I count like $70mm more to be spent to just hit the one Machado contract. But I digress, it's Jerry selling a load of crapola c) pitching wins championships. This has less with the Sox even acquiring him. It's the fact it just got that much harder to win against the Padres or Dodgers in the WS. Those rotations are 5-6 deep with young firepower in the wings waiting to mow you down for an inning or two at a time in high leverage. We are 3 deep with young firepower. It's a loss not to sign him. Winning builds teams. Trevor Bauer since he speaks his mind and is active on social media gets spun as this headcase. It's this narrative that has played out forever "shut up and play" we don't want to hear you, just play the game. You're making millions. You're opinion doesn't count. Meanwhile we sit here like armchair GM's on a message board playing make believe. in the end, this signing is just as bad as if the yanks, twins, rays, etc. signed him. we have to beat a team in the world series to win the thing .. it just got harder.

This stat speaks more to the vagueries of WAR calculation than their relative effectiveness in 2020. While its seldom pretty, Colome was damn near perfect in 2020 and perfect is hard to improve upon.

It's time for the Sox to play Vaughn and Collins. Every player has to get their start sometime. Vaughn would have been better than EE LAST year. There's no reason to keep him down again, even for Nelson Cruz, who is a) too expensive, b) possibly a roider, c) 41, and d) unable to field a position. Collins has done everything asked of him in AAA. We aren't asking him to catch 160 games. He can catch 40 games, and DH until Vaughn arrives and then blend with Vaughn while he gets up to speed. We want another lefty bat. Well there is Zack Collins staring us all in the face. Why not recognize that he's already in the room? Also, someone above posted that Vaughn might hit 7th, followed by Eaton and Madrigal. If that's what Tony decides, okay. If it were me, I'd hit Roberts 7th, and Vaughn/Collins 6th, for two reasons. Vaughn and Collins will have likely have higher OBP than Robert, for him to drive them in with HRs. And Robert has the speed to steal and score on Eaton/Madrigal singles. Add in Anderson and it puts all the Sox speed together in the lineup with no one in between them to clog the bases. Lastly, I don't carry water for anyone. I'm just a fan of the Sox, and I'm back on this board because I'm excited about the team. If my team sucks, I don't gravitate to fan blogs to complain. I just do something else. But when my team is good and exciting, I like to write about it.

He's turning 41 this year. 41. You know how many players have had great years at 41? I think the odds are better that Vaughn will be great at 23 than that Cruz will be great at 41....I also think the odds are pretty great Cruz gets hurt or gets caught doping (Because he must be doping). While it's true that Vaughn doesn't have a MLB track record...neither did Frank...or a lot of hot shot young hitters. I don't think there will be a ton of pressure on Vaughn because...everyone else on the team is a kid. This is exactly the time to let him and Collins settle into those roles. I even sort of think they should go to Jose and say...thanks for last year but your future is DH and give the glove to the kid.

You are lucky you have us. This entire board would need anti-depressants.

Are you Paul Sullivan?

Baseball like all businesses can't stay closed indefinitely. Let people who don't feel safe stay home. Admit a person with proof of vaccination with whatever the politicians want to set as a safe % of capacity. Continue safe practices and play ball.

Before the vaccines were a reality, things looked really grim. Now we have two vaccines approved (for emergency use) and several more coming within months. Things look brighter today than they have in close to a year. Going to a baseball game is going to be a reality this season. Maybe not right away, but I can't imagine there no being at least limited fans by May. Hopefully...

Say By Fall we need new vaccines (I seriously doubt we will, as they've said the vaccine has been effective against most variants). They shut everything down again. Then what? More strain variants? More vaccines? You can't do this forever. Also, enough people will feel safe. Not everyone has to. I think the combination of this being the best team in decades, and people wanting to go out and see live sporting events...I think tickets will sell out with the capacity limits tbh

If the Bears pay a huge price for Wentz, it's George McCaskey's fault. 2 lame duck knuckleheads are desperate to save their jobs. Someone with some security would do the right thing. No security, you are throwing a Hail Mary. If it fails, the franchise will suffer from their decisions long after they are gone.

It's awesome and they shouldn't penalize it

Sorry about that! haha. Took you off. Now it's just Peavy44. Who knows - sometimes these boards get heated. Have to remember that we're all playing make believe passing time just wanting to see winning Sox baseball.

Yeah, I agree. Especially those who have been vaccinated will be eager to go to sporting events, concerts, movies, etc. Personally, I will be buying tickets as soon as fans can start attending.

isn't Kopech due to pitch for the sox this year? Giolito, Lynn, Keuchel, Cease, Corpse until Kopech what's the deal with wanting another pitcher do we think Cease and Kopech can't be serviceable 4 and 5s?

Because it’s either this or we talk about the consistency of our dog’s poop on a daily basis until pitchers and catchers report.

I hope that Pace watched the Super Bowl and realized that even Mahomes cant win with an o lone that can't block 4 guys and a defense that can't stop anything. Hoard more picks, get more players. There will be other opportunities to trade 1st round picks for a QB if you do everything else right. This is the way.

And this is why Jerry has no incentive to be as competitive as possible

Let's look at the 2021 Sox and compare them to 2020. Starting Pitching 2020 v. 2021 1. Giolito v. Giolito. Slight improvement. Giolito is still developing, and the projections have him improving. 2. Keuchel v. Keuchel. Slight decline. Keuchel isn't going to put up a ERA of 1.99 again. 3. Dunning v. Lynn. Vast improvement. Dunning wasn't really our 3rd starter, but I'm putting him here so I can match Cease with himself. 4. Cease v. Cease. Likely improvement, perhaps significant improvement. This is all about our new pitching coach helping to fix Cease. It's unlikely Cease could be worse. 5. Lopez/Gonzalez v. Rodon/Kopech. Likely vast improvement. Lopez and Gio were really bad. If Rodon doesn't get hurt, he'll be much better and a good bridge to Kopech. The Sox have significantly upgraded their rotation with Lynn, and the expected arrival of Kopech. If Katz can get Cease on track, the Sox will be very strong. Not top of baseball, but more than strong enough with their offense and bullpen. Bullpen 2020 v. 2021 1. Colome v. Hendriks. Improved. Colome was very good at converting saves, but his underlying numbers have been declining, and he might not be good enough for playoff baseball. Hendriks is better. 2. Bummer v. Bummer. Big improvement. He wasn't healthy in 2020. Hopefully he will stay healthy this year. 3. Heuer v. Heuer. Improved. Has to be as he gains more experience. 4. Marshall v. Marshall. Stable. 5. Crochet v. Crochet. Improvement if Crochet is used in the pen instead of stretched out to be a starter in AAA. He will improve with experience. 6. Cordero v. Cordero. Same. 7. Fry v. Fry. Same 8. Cishek v. Fill in the blank. Improvement, as Cishek was bad last year. 9. Detwiler v. Fill in the blank. If Crochet takes Detwiler's innings, this will be an improvement. This is a better bullpen, and could be one of the best, if not the best, in baseball. Hendriks can compete with anyone, Bummer is super solid, and the rest are very good. Crochet is the wild card. If they use him in the pen and he stays healthy, we should blow away teams at the end of games. Starting Lineup 2020 v. 2021 1. Anderson v. Anderson. Same. I actually think Tim can get even better, but I won't project that here. 2. Moncada v. Moncada. Vast improvement. If he returns to 2019 form, this will be huge boost to this lineup. 3. Abreu v. Abreu. Same. Many will predict a decline, and it may happen. But Jose will remain the leader of the team. 4. Jimenez v. Jimenez. Slight improvement. He will continue to get better, and will make up for any decline by Abreu 5. Grandal v. Grandal. Same. He didn't have a great 2020, so it shouldn't be too hard for him to at least match it. 6. Encarnacion v. Vaughn. Improvement. Encarnacion was 70 OPS+ bad. Vaughn, when he comes up, will crush that number. 7. Robert v. Robert. Improvement. He started hot, went ice cold, then started improving at the end. He should be much better in year 2. 8. Mazara v. Eaton. Improvement. People fear Eaton will get hurt, but he only missed a few games his 3 years in Chicago. When he plays, he'll be vastly better than 64 OPS+ Mazara. 9. Madrigal v. Madrigal. Same. He had a fabulous rookie year. This lineup should be much improved with a much stronger year out of Moncada, better DH play with Vaughn, an improved RF, and Luis Robert in year 2. We were second in the AL in runs scored to the Yanks. We could be #1 in the AL this year. Bench 2020 v. 2021 1. James McCann v. Zach Collins. Big drop off. This is the one position on the team where we are taking a step back. It's why many are calling for another backup catcher. I think if you give Collins some ABs, he'll come through on the offensive side. He will likely never be as good defensively or as a game manager as McCann. 2. Garcia/Mendick v. Garcia. If Leury stays healthy, this will be an improvement. 3. Engel v. Engel. Same. A solid platoon player and defensive replacement. 4. Last man v. Last man. ???? We don't know who the Sox will choose as their last bench player. Will it be an infielder or outfielder? Coaching 2020 v. 2021 1. Renteria v. LaRussa. Vast improvement. I know many of you hate TLR. But he's going to be first all-time in wins for a post-integration manager this year. Renteria had the Sox having fun last year, but he had no clue how to manage tight pressure packed games down the stretch and into the postseason. LaRussa does. 2. Cooper v. Katz. Vast improvement. We have to see it, but going off what Katz did for Giolito gives most of us confidence he'll do very well for other pitchers too. Might be the key move of the offseason. 3. Remaining coaches v. remaining coaches. Even. There may even be improvement here, but I'll leave it even for now. Overview Here are the areas of improvement. Starting pitching: Giolito slightly better, Lynn huge plus, Cease likely improved, Rodon/Kopech much better than Lopez/Gonzalez Bullpen: Hendriks better, Bummer healthier, Heuer more experienced, Crochet the wild card. The rest are the same. Lineup: Moncada much better, Vaughn better than Encarnacion, Eaton better than Mazara, Robert better in year 2 Bench: Garcia staying healthy. Coaching: Huge improvement with LaRussa and Katz. The only declines are Keuchel will be unlikely to have a 1.99 ERA, and Collins cannot replace McCann at catcher. Granted, this is a very optimistic overview. Injuries will happen and could upset this evaluation. But it's crazy to look at this team and predict they may not make the postseason, will melt down and be terrible, and all the other doom and gloom predictions Sox fans have been expressing lately. This is a young, hungry and improving team, strengthened by savvy and skilled veterans, managed by a Hall of Famer who has a top notch pitching coach by his side, with no obvious weaknesses. The lineup could be scary 1-9 if Moncada is back, Vaughn acclimates quickly, and Eaton stays healthy. The top 3 starters all were top 7 Cy Young vote getters last year, and there is potential for starters 4 and 5 to become studs. The bullpen may be the best in baseball. I wouldn't call us World Series favorites, or even AL Pennant favorites. But we can match up with anyone in the AL, and if we win the pennant, we will have a shot at winning the World Series. So, there's my rosy analysis. Go ahead and tear it down if you like. But if you are really a Sox fan, why not just enjoy it?? We have an awesome team that should be very fun to watch.

This obviously will cause a drop in offense, but the bigger concern regarding the pitching isn’t guys getting shelled or failing to go 6, it’s the worry that many of these guys will have difficulty adjusting back to a 162 game grind coming off a 60 game season or not even pitching at all (i.e. Kopech). There’s a high likelihood we may see an increase in injuries because of this. Edit: As far as a summary, I’d expect a decrease in slugging and HR’s potentially by a decent amount. Seems like the ball will be less bouncy than years past. They use some data from Korea when they changed the ball as a comparison. It’s a good read.

Tank Commander Lavine

It's my opinion that after Jerry is gone and the lease is up the Sox are leaving Chicago. It's my opinion that the reason why the Sox minor league affiliates are mostly in North Carolina is to pave the way for the Sox eventual move to Charlotte or Raleigh. I think they're going to attempt to extort IL again and the state will think they're bluffing and then.....bye.

Hendriks was worth almost double the WAR as Colome in 2020. Hendriks value comes from the 9th inning but also because he can go multiple innings. I think there is no way he doesn’t crush Colome’s 2020. Foster and Marshall are also my regression candidates but I think a full year of Crochet and a healthy Bummer, Heuer taking a step forward make me optimistic

Clearly better than 2020. People underestimate the Lynn trade. This dude is a an ace. The past 3 seasons, I’d put him against anyone. I am pumped to watch him pitch. Hendriks is literally the best player at his position. The pitching staff as a whole is far improved.

I only turn on the four letter network for a baseball game (previously National games, adding White Sox this year). Let us know if any of the talk content has improved or at least partially covers baseball beyond the one hour show they offered early evenings. My previous exposure to that station is nearly all coverage (national or local hosts) revolves around NFL/NBA/National Hot Takes. I’ll listen to Connor McKnight as well, though loved listening to Rongey lose it postgame after Sox losses. With the Score, I weed out the bullshit (Bears, Navel-gazing, Politics, etc.) and listen to baseball talk (White Sox, Cubs, MLB Baseball discussions) targeting online podcasts which clearly label baseball discussions.

You could be right about the steroid police with Cruz.....but the difference I do see between him and EE is EE really appeared to have lost his bat speed. Cruz hasn't. If he hasn't because of steroids......time will answer that question. I hope I'm underestimating Vaughn. What makes me more skeptical is the very fact the only thing we are going off of is that alternate site you mentioned. That truly was nothing more than a simulation no matter how we look at it, and no matter how competitive they tried to make it, it cannot be the same thing as playing an actual game with actual live pitchers trying to get you out in real live game situations. Have to agree to disagree with Collins. Like I said, I'm not impressed with his drawing walks in the minors, which impressed the sabergeeks. You're right in your thinking that knowledge of the strike zone is very important and your comparison to Thomas having that is true. But of course you would agree that Thomas had more than that. What's important is can Collins HIT major league pitching and he hasn't proven that at all, where as Thomas did right away. I would love to be wrong and for you to throw that one back in my face some day on here. And I know Cruz is 41. I never said I'd want to sign him long term.

How many hitters on the entire Charlotte roster that received regular playing time were under .850? I guess the key difference is Thomas just tore right through the Sox minor league system from the moment he was drafted...whereas it’s difficult to know what to make of last year development-wise for minor leaguers. Gordon Beckham and Luis Robert are the only two Sox rookie position players to come right out of the box guns blazing in quite some time (but both faded down the stretch.) Tim Anderson held his own, too. But that’s still a lot of pressure to put on a Collins or Vaughn if the team is struggling and there are significant injuries on either side of the roster. Now Vaughn’s certainly no Brian Anderson psychologically or in terms of work habits, but only those 1993-94 offenses were comparable to 2006, yet there still came a point in the season where Ozzie panicked and went to Mackowiak instead. We can sit here today and say Vaughn only needs to be around 775 ops, because the rest of the hitters can carry the lineup. But things don’t usually go as planned.

I certainly hope you're right. But we have nothing to go off of. Vaughn has never faced major league pitching. If Cruz were here, we could have worked him along slower. Now he doesn't have that luxury. He has to produce now. We can't have the "well, it's his rookie year, he needs time to adjust" scenario. I agree, I like this team too. And it's why I feel this way. I really felt that we had our foot on Minnesota's throat and if we could have signed Cruz and taken him away from them as well, we would have stomped our foot on their throats even harder. Now I feel like we let them off the hook by taking a "this'll be good enough" attitude. And because I like this team, I definitely feel that nothing short of winning the division is acceptable. If Minnesota wins the division and Cruz has another monster year to contribute to it, we should all be very angry. Don't really care about having that "money is reserve" if it doesn't help us win.

I love the thought of having Vaughn, Eaton and Madrigal as 7-8-9. Pitchers will go through first six guys all capable of hitting 30 home runs and then those last three guys will drive them crazy taking or following off pitches...getting on base 36% of the time. This team is going to be so much fun.

Sorry! I got busy fending off doom and gloom attacks.

I think we are better off having Vaughn in the lineup and the Cruz money held in reserve. I will take our lineup over anyone. Our lineup will be a nightmare for just about any pitcher to face. Also, if the other team isn't leading after 7...forget it.

That's fine if people still won't feel safe.. Just don't go to the games (crowded areas)

Maybe it's just me but I'm tired of bringing in the old broken down free agents from other teams...I was strongly against bringing in EE last year for the same reason...it's time to trust the 25 year olds. Last year was the year Collins should have spent catching every day in Charlotte but COVID happened....so he spent every day catching in the alternate site with Crochett, Kelly, Dahlquist and Thompson. Young wild explosive arms...with our best catching coaches with him trying to teach him...I don't know what happened but I feel great confidence that he caught the equivalent of 60 games. If he hasn't learned by now they should get rid of him...but I just feel from their actions that they are confident about him. And if he CAN catch? This is one of those things that catapults us from that very good team into the super team...adding a lefty bat at catcher with high on base skills and + power. I think he catches 60 games this year and DH's/1B 70 more and then catches 100 games a year going forward.

And...the playoff system didn't start until 1968 so why are we talking about 1906 forward? You would never suspect some of these guys are really fans.

Oh I see what you did there...from 1920-1982 the White Sox went to the playoffs once and you can make the optimists look stupid for supporting a team that hasn't made the playoffs very often going back to 1906...hahaha. It hasn't been a legendary franchise...but it's our team so I'm not sure WTF is your point outside of slamming some of the positive people?? White Sox had a playoff team last year and have added two of the top Cy Young candidates from 2020, a solid right fielder, a hall of fame manager, a hot shot pitching coach and will be adding three of top fifty prospects in all baseball to their core of good young players...and you and your ilk want to b**** non stop because we didn't go after some other teams garbage. Honestly give me the water carriers over your cabal of urine carriers.

It makes no sense to let this continue. Things have to open up.

If this is true it bodes well for fans at MLB Spring Training/Regular Season games.

Nice, they put spiegel back with Parkins.

Yup. If Bears go into football hell, it's entirely their own fault for letting Pace have yet another crack at finding a QB at the expense of future draft picks + cap space.

This Bears staff also heavily worked with Foles and thought he was worthwhile to bring in. Just saying

I'm not sure the whole "bears fan watches the super bowl and confirms all prior convictions on the bears" is that compelling to me. To read the board you would believe simultaneously that: - The 8-8 team was derailed by terrible QB play that the GM/coach should be fired for - Also fixing the QB won't matter that much because the rest of the team is trash - Also adding Tom Brady wouldn't have mattered I think it's more likely than not that the defense can recover to top ten next year with a lot of the improvements coming internally. There are assumptions we don't yet know about a potential trade including: - It will cost a 2021 first round pick - It will cost the bears to lose Arob - Both the salary cap and loss of pick cause bears to have a worse Oline next year But the first bullet and second bullet could easily not be true. It may very well be a next year first. For the Eagles, that may be fine because it saves them a first round salary and they are already taking it in the teeth on cap hit for a year. For Robinson, they have the franchise. And if they franchise and then trade him, I'm confident they get a decent return + can open up quite a bit of salary. But they wouldn't do that because the WR market isn't good, so unless they get a first round pick And as for the oline, I think that was the very biggest bright spot at the end of the year. The interior of Whitehair-Mustipher-Bars was much better, and they get to swap out Bars with James Daniels. And if they keep a first round pick, they are likely to be able to have two shots at a good tackle in either round 1 or 2 (or take two bites of the apple). Add to that, it's a good draft for WR talent. This likely does not lead up to a super bowl. But the Bears are not rebuilding this year. I would have liked them to, and had they tanked, they could be looking at a new administration + Trey Lance or Josh Fields. But they aren't. They didn't tank because it turned out they had young talent on their offensive line, an interesting young tight end, young RB that hit his promise, darnell mooney + allen f'n robinson. And for all the handwringing about leaving scorched earth for next admin, there is also in my mind a good possibility that Wentz is actually a top 12 QB and borderline top 10 QB, which if the defense truly sucks next year, the next admin would be leaving either an answer at QB, or a trade asset that will stock the cupboards quickly. Trading a QB with 3 years + only a first year of guaranteed cash? That would be a huge asset. And if he sucks, they can move on next year. True, they may be out a first round pick, but they'd be wise to strip down anyway. And what are the alternatives that don't "hurt the future" but also live in the reality that pace+nagy WILL try to improve the QB situation. Fitzpatrick? As I've said before, maybe if Bridgewater is cut, that would be the one nice stop gap. Anyway, I think nfl chatter is way too front running. Just full goldfish memory and shouting that the current best team was the way everyone should do it, and when that team falls apart just proof that they weren't doing it the way the new best team is. The Chiefs are proof that the Bears shouldn't try to upgrade their QB? That team is loaded with talent, but had some unfortunate injuries. It happens. The Bears last year were the Buccaneers. The Rams this year were the buccaneers. But Tom Brady didn't want to go there. Now the Bears are a trash team full of trash that proves my theories about team building.

The better question is will billionaires and politicians have the audacity to shakedown taxpayers for hundreds of millions or over a billion in taxes, especially with the current state of city, county and states finances. Most people (taxpayers/fans) are fine with owners purchasing their own stadiums. Owners, on the other hand, in most cases have demanded taxpayers pay their capital expenses. I suspect owners will have less options in the future as other large cities are facing the same fiscal issues and constraints, and the shifting public sentiments against these extortion rackets.

I went to a game in early March. It was my first time I was able to attend Spring Training, based on the fact Winter was typically my busiest time while working. Was really excited to see Robert and Keuchel for the first time, Robert didn't do anything at the plate, but Keuchel pitched well. Like many Sox games, it was organically socially distant, with 3,233 tickets sold, and about 500-700 actually in the stands on a cloudy day with rare brief rain in Arizona. It's a nice complex, would definitely hit Spring Training in the future.

I think they have a long term plan for Collins. I feel like their 2019 plan was pushed back because they didnt expect McCann to be the all star catcher he was (for half the season)...but I think 2020 was daily intensive training on Collins being a catcher...they understand he is extremely valuable if he can actually be an average catcher defensively because they think he can be a top ten hitting catcher. Of course the other possibilty is they think he's horrible and they are hiding that...but then why not trade after his great AAA year in 2019? Collins might be most interesting guy to watch in 2021.

He won’t live up to the hype, but honestly, just getting a modern mind in that role will pay for itself tenfold. It’s remarkable how bad our young starters have been under Cooper, with the only success story being the guy who reached outside the organization for help from Katz. If Ethan can get Cease turned around, that alone will pay for his salary.

Finally, this thread can be locked.