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I hate that this is still a thing being discussed. I just cannot for the life of me fathom why prioritizing dumping Beni is a priority over maximizing return. It doesn’t make a single lick of sense. It’s the White Sox, so you can’t completely dismiss it, but I’ll believe it when I see it.

Every time I gain the slightest bit of optimism about Getz, Harold pops in with this godforsaken idea that Chris must be pondering.

Not sure if you heard, but Getz could've gotten Jake McCarthy instead of Fletcher and Luke Keaschall instead of Vargas.

They were close with the Phillies at the deadline from what I've heard and it sounds Aiden Miller was a real sticking point. Dodgers talks involved Josue de Paula and River Ryan. The White Sox decided to hold obviously. I'd be really surprised if he's not moved this off-season.

I would 100% bring back Soroka as a reliever if the price was right.

I swear I know your posts when I read them without seeing who wrote it 1st. 😋

Are you suggesting the literal worst team of all time team shouldn’t rebuild?

It's easy to look using hindsight but the Bummer trade was absolutely the right decision.

PHI would be a great match. LAD would be horrible.

As opposed to retaining Crochet in 2025 just to lose 100+ games again WITH him, while retaining significant injury risk and watching his value deplete regardless of how he pitches? Trading Crochet - assuming you can get a very good return - is an absolute no brainer.

That is terrifying, yet not surprising.

34 years old makes me feel incredibly ancient. His philosophy is what they need, so let's hope it works out.

Yes I'm sure so many teams were beating down the door to trade valuable prospects for one year of a guy with a 6.79 ERA in 2023 who walked 5.6 per 9, and seemed to fold under any pressure. Switching out guys on the 40 man bubble for prospects would've returned marginal ones at best, and people would've bitched about that, too. GMs aren't going to overpay for performance several years out of date, nor are they going to just buy the "his FIP was so much lower so give me good prospects!" argument either. Soroka was a good flier to see if he could recapture some of his 2019 success. He ended up being a solid bullpen guy and I wouldn't mind seeing him back, though since he elected free agency that's probably not an option. Schuster produced 1 WAR in 73 innings as a long man/spot starter and should be an ok arb eligible addition going forward for a bad team. Lopez did what he was expected to - play good defense at a non-premium position and not hit at all. He was brought in to likely fill in a gap until the Sox felt guys like Sosa were more ready. If he's back I'll be really surprised. Shewmake sucks and likely won't be with the team. At best they'll stick him in AAA. He was a former first round pick, though, and is the type of guy the Sox should be running through to see if they can get anything out of them. Gowens was age appropriate for AA and pitched solidly. He also strikes out over 10 batters per 9. He'll probably be in AAA next season and could end up being a useful bullpen guy. Not sure he's a starter long-term, but we'll see. Bummer rebounded nicely with a team that could play defense and actually scout. His contract extension has no bearing on the value of the trade. Overall, the trade was fine.

Then it’s a good thing he fired their pro scouts

I'd be surprised if the Red Sox were that aggressive. I'm hoping the Mets go berserk.

It would absolutely bonkers not to trade Crochet this offseason. Extreme injury risk with only two more years of control and there’s never in history been a team further from contention than the White Sox right now. Literally none of the players on the current active roster will be on the next White Sox contender. Waiting for this year’s deadline should be a distant plan B to consider in the event of a horrible seller’s market.

Remember JR's motto, "fiscal responsibility is more important than winning..."

https://tenor.com/view/mystery-box-family-guy-a-boats-boat-mystery-could-be-anything-gif-15543179

If I took a shot every time he mentioned Luke Keaschall, I'd be dead of alcohol poisoning.

Yeah, he was good enough in relief last year that someone with playoff aspirations will likely pick him up. Would be fine having him back but he's probably gone.

So do they have a plan to sign ANYTHING this offseason or will it literally just be subtractions?

Saving JR money is his first priority.

Yup. It's scary. It's like he's using this forum as a sounding board for the worst ideas to come out of this FO.

@Look at Ray Ray Run and I went over this a couple of weeks back. Basically, I think you guys are in agreement. That said, the distinction is that, in Ray Ray's view, guys like Bannister (the coaching staff / development-responsible guys) should let the talent acquisition guys (scouts, GM, analysts, etc.) know the types of player they need, but they shouldn't be in charge of acquiring the players. The talent acquisition guys should know these preferences and tendencies and be able to identify the right players based on the coaches' input, but the acquisitions ultimately need to be made by a group that specializes in it.

No shot

Does a mechanic choose the cars he works on ? Of course he can , if given a choice, prefer one over the other if he feels he does his best working on certain engines. Just look at Bannister or any coach that way. If he has a higher success rate with a certain type and you're choosng among 2 guys, who , with most things being equal and no general consensus on who to choose , you go with the guy Bannister thinks is more moldable or pliable and adaptive to his coaching style. Trying to quantify the effect of coaching is pretty difficult. A coach who works with hundreds of prospects over a length of time you will have many more failures if success is messaged by quality MLB players. Let's say you have a 1% success rate and there's some industry norm where 2 or 3 % is considered great development. Choosing the right players who are highly adaptive and respond well to and realize the path to getting better is through patience and trial and error can make all the difference .If Bannister is the head honcho of pitching in the organization he should have a say. If scouts were so good at picking pitchers they'd be pitching coaches. Your scouts should at least consider the organization pitching philosophy which Bannister is the boss of. They should know what he likes . His input is obviously the most important part of pitching development right now.

I'm torn. JR will be 89 in a few months. Yes the Sox need offensive help .Trying to figure out the next competitive window and saying a 25 year old doesn't fit into it is really weird .He'd need an extension of course but a rebuilding team starting at ground zero needs to have a strength to operate from. Right now starting pitching and with some failed starters converting to relief like Peyton Pallette or others pitching in general can be a very good strength. I don't know if JR passing away will make things better .However I'm tired of thinking Crochet will get hurt. Treat him like the asset he currently is. I want to see great things for Garrett Nolan Crochet with the Sox. There are no fast answers to even getting to .500 now but you have to start accumulating young talent and keeping it. Maybe Crochet is dead set on becoming a FA and if that's the case then sure trade him but I'd be spreading rumors and making a serious, if only in words, push to resign him and talking about the way back to respectability is through our biggest strength right now. Let teams think he'll be unavailable. When you're desperate you don't get as much. I want to see "White Sox Making a Serious Bid To Extend Crochet" rumors flying. None of this "we tried but we failed" BS that deflates the fans. Resign the dude fast and build some momentum for the 20th Anniversary of 2005. Give the fans some hope. I don't care if he's traded after he gets extended. Sox need to create some positive buzz in the fanbase and that always starts with getting or retaining good players. Pitching will keep you in games. See what Jose Iglesias wants to have a starting role. Roberts needs to not feel isolated .A veteran Cuban player who has always been a great fielder and has found ways to improve his hitting will perhaps help Robert regain his form and have a strong 1st half. At this point I'd prefer to trafe Robert over Crochet. It opens up more money and he's had just too many serious injuries. Let's face it some part of the roster is going to have to suffer and it's going to be hitting because this is going to take some time . But having one strength gives you more talent and thus more tradable assets while keeping you in more games where even a few good players popping balls over the fence with a few guys who can take walks on base will get you some wins and let the young pitchers develop in the majors while hitting develops in the minors. With Crochet there's less need to rush Schultz and Hagen Smith. Withe a great 1st half and an extension Crochet can actually increase his value.

Exactly. There's good points made on both sides in this thread, but your point stands alone as the most relevant. We're so far away from where we want to be.

He should certainly have a role in the process. Just don’t think he should be driving pitching roster decisions.

You don’t think a pitching or hitting director should look at tape on a guy they might trade for and give input?

I don't know, I don't believe someone should need to actually BE there at that level, they need to manage the operation which, ideally, should be global.

In 1967 I was 10 years old, we went on a 2-week family vacation. We drove from Chicago to New Orleans and then to Biloxi Mississippi, Mobile Alabama and Pensacola Florida. I saw firsthand the way blacks were treated and couldn't believe it. I could just imagine a ballplayer like Dick Allen growing up in Pennsylvania and the culture shock he went through and the emotional scars he endured. So many black and brown players before Allen paved the way and are never heard of or talked about, it's sad. 1966 was the year the first Black football player was allowed to play in the SEC.

I thought Gene Mauch was the focus of the press in 1964.

Bleacher Report so grain of salt etc, but there are a few interesting teams in here. Obviously all speculation but some teams and names I hadn't thought of. https://syndication.bleacherreport.com/amp/10140565-cooking-up-8-garrett-crochet-trade-packages-for-2024-25-mlb-offseason.amp.html Mets don't have anyone in their rotation, though they also lack some of the top-top prospects like some of the other programs, but Jett Williams is a fast riser and Drew Gilbert (not mentioned in this article but someone to look at) sounds like the good parts of Adam Eaton. Phillies are obvious as that's where I thought he was going at the deadline last year, still like them to make this move.

Just to clarify, im not mad or upset by this. I just don't want to see another season of garbage filtered through the MLB team without taking chances on higher upside players.

He’s getting credit for his organizational hires even though his roster moves have been terrible from the start. God forbid we have a GM that can do both well, but we don’t. Sox fans have been beaten down by a terrible owner to have low expectations.

No walks, but I hear he really likes bunting it into the air….its like hot ice…it’s the best of both worlds In all seriousness, seems like another solid and reasonable move…which is good.

Former Soxtalk banner man, iirc.

Schumaker ain’t no dummy. He probably never even considered this career killer gig.

Yeah, and if Bummer had a 6 ERA for the Sox this year - and odds are he would've been bad on this team, since like 95% of their roster severely under-performed - you'd be upset they didn't trade him when they could get something for him. It's all hindsight.

Lots of teams have this. It's not a minor league hitting coordinator. He's in charge of hitting for the entire organization. It's basically the same thing that Brian Bannister has been doing but for hitting. Fuller was their minor league hitting coordinator for years and coached many of their prospects as a hitting coaching in Bowie I believe.

Scherzer and Verlander have won three Cy Young awards a piece. Only four pitchers have won more. WTF?

Agree with what you say but it sucks. You’re going to see guys with 150 wins and no shutouts in the Hall of Fame and nobody will be able to figure out why unless they have a computer in front of them. I hate how the pitching game has evolved. One of my best memories was Jack Morris and John Smoltz in Game 7, 0-0 in the tenth inning. Something that will never, ever happen again. No memorable games. “Hey remember we saw that pitcher’s duel with four guys from the home team and three from the visiting team? That was great.” Ugh. You are 100% right, it just sucks.

Sox hitters: "Wait just a darn minute here... you can hit the ball IN THE AIR?!"

This would be a footnote in a successful franchise season. For us, it's meat and potatoes.

Oh God, how dare they try to earn revenue to pay employees.

There's also a lot of guys in the Hall without 300 wins in eras where it was "easier" to get it https://www.baseball-reference.com/awards/hof_pitching.shtml

You do realize the Hall of Fame's standards, generally speaking, are greatness in comparison to your era's peers, right? That's why you have guys like Edgar Martinez, Frank Thomas, and Trevor Hoffman in the Hall. Back when they were playing, there was still a lot of debate over if they deserved to be in the Hall because of their positions (DH = failed fielder; CL / RP = failed starter). The Hall's standards evolve with the game, so the whole "you need (x) wins to get in the Hall" is an extremely outdated notion.

Jerry thought it was Mur Free and was all on board

Should I drop by and give Getz a summary of what Soxtalk knows he should do?