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I think Benintendi has some left in the tank. The bat was solid June on, and was actually quite good in August and September. He also looked more athletic in the field as the season went on; its obvious he really wasn't healthy in 23 and early 24. He's overpaid without a doubt, but most FAs are, and I don't think its beyond the realm of possibility he could be positive WAR player the rest of his contract. I personally would just keep him. He's a good first half away from being tradable. Attaching him to Crochet is insanity and I refuse to believe its something they're actually considering. They'll be a bottom 5 payroll in the league even with Beni, and badly need to maximize talent infusion.

Here's the difference.. 2022 White Sox active roster payroll: $155,000,000 with no superstars just a collection of mediocre to ok players all making between 8-18 million. This is why you have an 81-81 team that can't get over the hump, among other things. 2024 Dodgers active roster payroll: $172,000,000 with superstar players like Mookie Betts, Freddie Freeman, Shohei Ohtani. 98 wins and a championship, nothing more to say. The White Sox will spend money, but they spend it in a totally inefficient way that is never going to work in todays game. The White Sox would rather have Joe Kelly, Kendall Graveman and AJ Pollock at a combined $29 million dollars than Bryce Harper at $27 million.

I personally think the White Sox have bent over backwards to appease Garrett Crochet. He could've easily been in AA last year starting and not using up service time.

KC made the playoffs by being gifted a 12-1 record against the White Sox. I don't disagree with your argument as vociferously as the mods, here, but KC shouldn't have made the playoffs this year. If the White Sox were even a AAAA team, Seattle gets KC's slot. Yes, the White Sox have the makings of a hum-drum pitching rotation. Cannon, Martin and Thorpe are easily #4s on any competitive team. Yes, they have Schultz, Smith and Taylor. They're not here, yet. Burke might even be a nice #3 if he's firing on all cylinders. Great, big, positive me expects next year's bullpen to be a slightly better version of last year's. Some home grown guys will make it cheaper. Wilson, Leasure, Ellard and Berroa have a rough season under their belts, and there's a few nice, minor league arms who can step up and be Justin Anderson for a season. Yes, I mean Justin Anderson, and not in a good way. I would also expect some focus on offense to result in some gains. Sosa, Vaughn (if he stays), Benintendi, Fletcher and Ramos can't really get worse. I wouldn't bet on Quero or Monty having anything more than a bumpy year getting their feet wet when they get promoted. A Crochet trade would probably be maxed out by taking prospects that are further away. Nobody's trading their top 10 in the game, AAA CF for Crochet. You might get that guy who smacks the s%*# out of it in A+, though. I always think this team isn't all that far away as the glum, here, think, but they're not getting 50 games better in one off-season.

This. Garrett Crochet owes a big thank you to the White Sox. In most orgs, he'd be 4-5 years from free agency.

It's easy to be a broken fan after the last two years and I think Sox fans tend to lean pessimistic to begin with. Still this idea that we are lost in the wilderness for thirty years is crazy. Didn't KC go from 106 loses to the playoffs LAST year? Did they do it with a lineup of stars? No it was Bobby WItt and pitching (and a lot of games against the Sox). So what is the case for White Sox optimism? Well I'll start with the two "trade" pieces. Crochet never pitched 60 innings in a season in his life and then last year pitched 150 innings and was magnificent. 2.69 FIP, 13 strikeouts per inning, 6.5 Strikeouts per walk? And he's 25. Chris Sale just had a Cy Young season at 35. Why can't we sign this guy for 10 years? He has very few innings on his arm and is a true ace. Build with him. And Roberts? He is only ONE year removed from a 5.5 WAR, 38 homer, 130 OPS+ season and many of us thought he had room to grow. He was terrible this year but players have career bad years as well as career good years. He's only 27 next year. Let's say he stays healthy next year (he played 145 games just one year ago) and is reinvigorated by new manager. He hits 45 homers with gold glove defense. Now look at the payroll. As I have frequently fought on this site...Sox have been in top 5 payroll when the team is good. 2025 top 5 payroll is $150 million and Sox are at $38. They have a ton of money they can spend. How about making a statement with someone like Pete Alonzo. As for the lack of talent...Hagen Smith, Noah Shultz and Grant Taylor all have ace stuff. Drew Thorpe seems like the perfect complement to those guys. OK that's not your starting rotation for 2024...but it's not ridiculous to think that at the All Star game your rotation could be Crochet, Smith, Shultz and Thorpe. The bullpen was historically bad, but you have more than half of the top 30 prospects as pitchers. Plus about half a dozen 25 year olds that were rookies last year. Seems you could cobble together a solid pen from that group. But zero hitters? Colson Montgomery had a bad season...but last 22 games he put up a .900 in AAA while 4 years younger than league average. At AFL he put up over 1.100 OPS. He's a lefty shortstop, that takes walks and hits for power. Quero hit .820 OPS at AA Birmingham at 21! He was even better at AAA Charlotte. How about up the middle you have Quero, Montgomery and Roberts??? The rest is a bit rag-tag...but again KC was ragtag outside of about two guys. Sosa had a .900 OPS the last month of the season and has a history of taking time to figure out a league and then burning it up. Learning curves aren't linear and you have a collection of guys that once looked like they would be good...Vaughn, Ramos, Colas, Vargas, Deloach, Baldwin. At some point we HAVE to get positive prospect luck. If one of those breaks out...and you make a signing like Pete Alonzo, Roberts has a career year, Montgomery and Quero come up and hold their own...now you have a competitive team. I like the new manager. I like the management stuff Getz has been doing (not player acquisition although I do like the Smith draft). I hate the idea of trading an existing Ace for hot prospects who often fail. And trading your CF at his lowest value. I don't think the future is hopeless. We just need things to break right and it seems the baseball gods owe us.

So you have no evidence but Hahn and KW's honorable word. Exactly.

Yes I am.

You seem to have shifted gears. I am positive about this off-season, next season's team, and our prospects for being competitive. KC is a nice story, but we're not there. The Sox never invested in "development", that's why when a window closed, they found themselves at the rebuild part of the cycle. A team has to be pumping prospects into the parent team.

yikes.. This makes me think he wasn't allowed to hire his own guys to keep THAT many.

I'm not sure. I don't think he has a defensive position. Table scraps is an absurd statement. Wilyer Abreu is a pretty good player.

I'm not sure that is how the organization works. A sycophant is someone who sucks up to the boss. Seems like JR let KW and RH run the baseball stuff and was wildly, sadly loyal to them...that is like sycophant in reverse. Who's to say if Getz has a $200 million budget that he doesn't believe that signing Soto for $70 mil per year isn't better than spending $70 mill on Grandal/Keuchel/Lynn and a bunch of relief pitchers. WE don't know. What we know is that the budget HAS been high. That's JR. And we know it was done poorly.

I like the idea of Wilyer Abreu. He's 25-years-old and really good. I could get behind that depending on the rest of the package. I could see Braden Montgomery potentially being involved as well. Roman Anthony is the #1 prospect in baseball. He will not be involved.

Awful result but predictable.

Yes. A chosen screengrab of a 15 minute press conference can tell you that.

Getz has to get at least one top 3 team prospect for Crochet or the trade would be an utter failure.

I forgot about the diminished skills clause. JR is evil.

The money will be spent on all the wrong 30+ veterans instead of stars in their primes…and, most weirdly, the bullpen fixation while neglecting gaping holes in RF and 2B.

No player/agent is ever going to burn one of the teams that might potentially sign them in the future…Economics 101.

Because the Sox former Executive Vice President was a goofball, and you would be foolish to believe anything he or Hahn said. Kenny literally tried to say that an 8-year contract worth $250 million guaranteed, with non-guaranteed Incentives and option years that could push the total value to $350 million was a better offer than 10-years, $300 million guaranteed with an opt-out after the 5th year. Kenny and Hahn were lying fools. Oh yes, “the money will be spent”… until it wasn’t.

Why would they have cared? They clearly signed with a better team with better coaches and now have a much richer second contract out of it that they'd never have gotten in Chicago.

The White Sox's offer was 10/$250 with no opt out. There were team options for years 11 and 12 that would have taken the total value up to $310 million. San Diego gave 10/$300 with an opt out after 5 years (which, notably, was used to get Machado quite a bit more money). They were outbid because they weren't actually serious, they didn't actually believe anyone would pay $300 million on an infielder because they don't believe players are worth those prices. They genuinely thought they were going to get both Harper and Machado for around $200 million each.

I think this is the article but maybe @southsider2k5 can correct me if I’m wrong… “Red Sox ‘right in the thick’ of Garrett Crochet trade talks (MLB Notebook)” Some notable excerpts…

Get back to us when one of those high priced free agents actually signs with the Sox. The highest Sox contract ever is still 5/$75.

I actually agree with this, but it also goes against what you're arguing with me on Jerry. If the Sox wanted to, they could absolutely find a way to sign Crochet to a long term extension. They won't do it, because they don't want to spend the money.

What's the common theme in all of these? They didn't sign the player. Instead of offering the most money for Machado, they signed his brother in law. Close doesn't count in baseball, close only counts in horseshoes and handgrenades.

No offense, but no, we know Jerry won’t commit massive dollars to big time free agents. The year Machado & Harper were free agents, Hahn was slyly suggesting he wanted to sign two whales. For all his warts, Rick desperately wanted to buck the “Jerry won’t sign stars” trend. Unfortunately Jerry is a risk adverse b**** and would rather burn fucktons of cash on mediocre free agents who will likely to flop than take a calculated risk on a large, long-term deal.

Not legitimately going after Harper was equally dumb...

Depending on who you consider a dh, there were 5-7 corner outfielders who hit 30 HR last year

Only one that is kind of surprising to me is Thames. I figured Katz and Sizemore for sure would stick around.

They both look thrilled to be there.

He's also dealt with achilles issues, which certainly would impact mobility and athleticism in the OF. Sounds like he played through it April/May before hitting the IL in early June with it. Not really defending his OF defense, its been mostly terrible. It routinely look like he wasn't even trying out there. He did look noticeably better out there towards the end of 24 though. Where did I say he's going to be a 2-3 WAR player? I said "its not beyond the realm of possibility he will be a positive WAR player..". As in like the 0.5-1 WAR range.

Here's prospects I would be targeting as the lead player, if I were the Sox. Imagine they get one of the top guys, not multiples. Generally, I am against guys whose service time clocks have already statrted because the Sox won't stop sucking by the time they're in arbitration. Also, I'm looking for impact. My greatest fear is they trade Crochet to the Mets for Baty. Here goes: Dodgers: Zyhir Hope. (I'm a stan of this kid. Think he could be a star.) Josue DePaula. (Not a great athlete, there's some Lefty Eloy risk, but it really looks like he can hit.) Daulton Rushing. (I am not super in love with him. Probably is 1b for the Sox. Well-rounded hitter. Just not sure he'll ever be a star. Probably an upgrade on Vaughn, but Texas League and PCL numbers are always hard to read) Alex Freeland. (He can't be the lead piece for me. Would love him as the second guy in a trade) Mets: Ryan Clifford (There's a lot of both swing and miss and 1b risk with Clifford. But there's impact. Sox liked him in the draft. He's the only one of their top prospects I would like to get.) Jett Williams (Not a fan) Drew Gilbert (Also not a fan) Phillies: Aidan Miller. (Just reminds me of what a bad pick Jacob Gonzalez was. But he's gonna hit and he'll be a decent defender somewhere in the infield even if he doesn't stick at short. Would be pleased if he was the lead piece) Justin Crawford. (There's a lot to like. Oozes tools. Good defender. Unlike his dad he's got a good arm. Hits the ball on the ground a TON. If you're really convinced in your new hitting guy, maybe you take an upside shot?) Andrew Painter (The only pitcher from any of these teams I'd even consider taking. But not gonna happen) Red Sox: Roman Anthony has been one of my favorite players in the minors since the day he was drafted. Not gonna get him. Braden Montgomery (Not a switch-hitter really, but a good defender with a huge arm. Possibly blocked by Anthony. He's a risk because there are hit tool questions. But the Sox have to get upside here and the power is legit) Kristian Campbell (There are position questions and upside questions. You may be buying high on one good year. That said, he consistently did damage all year long and is a hell of an athlete. He's gonna be a decent defender somewhere.) I would not consider a trade with Wilyer Abreu as the headliner. For me, the upside is just not there, but we'll see what everyone's offering. Finally, I don't believe they should trade Crochet unless they get at least one top guy. 4 B prospects would be a disastrous result.

There's no shot Anthony is on the table. Especially with how teams value high end position players currently. That being said, Boston has plenty of interesting pieces. I wonder if the Sox would have interest in Braden Montgomery as part of a package.

Their total payroll was $203 million, I was just using the active roster example to show the difference between having star power and spreading money out around average players. The White Sox had to pay Dallas Keuchel $18 million to not play for them in 2022.

Kenny and Rick had a lot of faults, but they also identified bringing in Bryce Harper, Manny Machado, Blake Wheeler, among others. They wanted to add them to the team. Why didn't any happen? Money. Is that a Kenny/Rick problem, or an owner and his budget?

I did say only when there is no general consensus on which player to trade for or draft among players considered equally talented from the talent evaluators there can be ways to break the tie where certain opinions are given more value than others. It can be the top guy like Bannister, it can be a successful scout who has ID'd good pitchers before or an analytics guy with a good track record of doing the same thing. We're basically splitting hairs since picking young talent and developing it is more difficult in baseball than any other sport. I know heres a lot of emphasis on some coach or coaches along the way who unlock a key that makes a difference but ultimately it may come down to mental or physical maturation from the player along with various tweaks through the trial and error part of coaching . Who can say for example what made Crochet good in 2024 and why he didnt get injured again ? There's no general consensus on it. Among the Getz haters bristling and embarrassed about the loss record we hear Getz and by extension Bannister, who Getz hired,had little or nothing to do with it. It was all Crochet. Bannister has talked at length many times what their plan was to make Crochet a healthy and productive starting pitcher . Besides adding and developing grips & pitches there is a sports management team that made a plan to keep him healthy. Between all these people including Crochet's mental and physical maturation and rehab from injuries it all added up to success this season. You could argue he's a smarter ,bigger stronger version of himself which is what development is all about. Even if you think the previous regime held him back, abused him and Crochet is resentful and bitter about it as some fans are, it all led to where he is now. No one can simplify it down to one thing. Many many things happened on his path . Even if we think Crochet and his agent were wrong to demand an extension because it hurt our baseball sensibilities about being gung ho for winning a championship and team 1st BS you have to look out for yourself in this world . Once you are at your best and in a situation to better contribute to your teams success is the time to be the rah rah guy. We always hear about putting players in a position to succeed .Crochet didn't want to take any chances on being put into a position to fail. He took charge of his own destiny. However Crochet has also been very happy with the whole plan so much which was what led him to do what he did at the trade tradeline. Turns out everyone was so happy and did such a good job it bit them in the ass for a little while. Fans got pissed, they wanted shiny new toys for the Sox and Crochet spoiled the party. Many thought he tanked his value or teams wouldn't want him because he made a "me 1st" power play. Many were wrong. I just don't think it's anything to get hung up on. Go listen to Bannister talk. He's a very bright guy and in touch with modern pitching and player development. Anyone who wants to feel better about Bannister and Katz and educate themselves there are quite a few interviews with him before and after he was hired here .

Makes me miss the days of Lance Johnson even more. What a trade that was... Ofc ended up with the Mets just like Ventura Torborg and Manuel.

Look, if you are trying to change people's mind that the hitting prospects are fine, you should probably be able to name more than two decent ones.

Since when has that stopped Chris Getz?

I am all for keeping Crochet and extending him.

No GM has ever been able to accomplish what Chris Getz was able to accomplish in his first year on the job.

A few things based on this thread. 1. Attaching Andrew Benintendi to Garrett Crochet would be a disaster. 2. If the White Sox can’t do better than Gavin Lux for Robert, they should and will hold. Need to maximize the return so I expect him on opening day roster. 3. I don’t love Boston as a Crochet trade partner. I doubt Roman Anthony or Mayer will be available and I’m not sure Kristian Robinson has a defensive position.

To the Sox…that would be a brutal trade straight up

If Getz sends prospects with Robert for Gavin fucking Lux, he is dumber than we even imagine.

Only took until page 5 for people to be mad about hypothetical situations. Hell yes.

Agree - what he did was incredible. Hadn’t played in ten plus years and dropped into AA with some success. He would have figured it out…not saying he would have been great given the late start but he would have made the majors and stuck around had he stayed. And I imagine if he went full time MLB and never played basketball, he probably would have been pretty good. He was just one of those gifted people at sports and his work ethic and will to win was off the charts. Dude wasn’t going to let himself fail.

He should certainly have a role in the process. Just don’t think he should be driving pitching roster decisions.

We have no idea if someone else could convince Reinsdorf to do something. Past history would say no.