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Who cares? The White Sox can't get any lower. They are going to be awful for years. If the Cubs are willing to pony up, do it.

Full disclosure here: multiple Cubs bloggers messaged me this morning asking about this and I didn't know anything. Separately, I heard from a Seattle person mentioning Owen Caissie, Harry Ford and Emerson Hancock with Hoerner involved to Seattle. As soon as I commented on the tweet from that Cubs blogger, I received a message from someone I trust saying it's nothing. I'm just going to assume that this one isn't happening.

Part of my childhood died. RIP Beltin' Bill. There he is with Nancy Faust (with her Sandy Duncan doo) and Wilbur Wood.

Prayers for Bill and his family. Going to pull out my Beltin Bill tshirt tonight that I got at the ballpark a few years ago to wear as I put the lights on the tree.

So I've heard this is true. Active discussions with the Cubs and Mariners. I don't know who Jacob Zanolla is though.

Jesus, even the homeless A's are spending money. God I hate being a Sox fan these days.

He was a great guy. My wife is a lawyer and they have to go these things for credit every year, so she went to sports law thing and Bill was speaking. A couple of years later we were at one of those Grinder's Bashes they used to hold. I went to the bathroom, and when I came back, Bill and my wife were talking. She told him what a great job he did giving his presentation, and he said he was really nervous because he was the only non lawyer in the room. Then I told him my story. I was a little guy. Mayonnaise disgusts me. When he went the last day for the HR title, after I ate my cereal, I stuck my face in a jar of mayo. It made me throw up and get to stay at home from school to watch the game. He batted leadoff to maximize his chances, and he did it.

It also means that turning Davis Martin into a cheap, controllable SP could pay dividends at the deadline or next offseason.

I know that. What doesn’t make sense is the fan proposals of them giving up their big prospects to the Sox like they’re the ones trading for Crochet when they’re only getting Hoerner. Thats what doesn’t make sense.

Those players, not necessarily teams, from the 70s really cemented my love of the team. Thinking of Bill I'm sitting at my kitchen table on Washington Street adjusting the rabbit ears on a portable TV to watch the game on a UHF channel 44?? . My dad was always in the road for work and my mom wasn't much of a baseball fan so I never really got the main TV.

Just heard about his death. Obviously he was the Sox player I looked up to when I became a Fan in 1970. He was our home run hitter and seemed to be a great guy. My other favorite player was Ed Hermann and now they are both gone. Rest in Peace Bill

He actually fell off his ladder while keeping his son from falling off his patio roof. He was re-nailing some shingles at the time. Fell right on his tailbone. Sox tried everything to help including shots with extract from papayas but nothing worked and he went on the DL in late June after only 57 games.

That is not enough if both Crochet and Robert are headed out.

What are fans going to do, not watch or attend? Well, that’s what is going to happen anyways.

Could get the next Davis Martin if we trade Davis Martin.

Some of Bill's notations from my This Day In White Sox History file. Had the chance to meet him when I co-hosted the 40th Anniversary of the 1972 team in 2012 that was done in association with the Chicago Baseball Museum and the White Sox. Was really a great guy: March 12, 1973 - Sox third baseman and former 1971 A.L. home run champ, Bill Melton, appeared on the cover of Sports Illustrated. The caption read, “Chicago Comes Out Swinging. Slugger Bill Melton.” Melton would have a nice comeback season after missing most of 1972 with a herniated disc. He’d hit .277 with 20 home runs and 87 RBI’s. He’d be traded to the Angels after the 1975 campaign. April 7, 1971 - Charlie Finley, the A’s owner, got the first regularly scheduled opening day double header in history but was stunned when the Sox under manager Chuck Tanner beat them twice 6-5 and 12-4 at the Oakland Coliseum. Tommy John and Bart Johnson were the winning pitchers. The Sox clubbed five home runs on the day, including a grand slam by Bill Melton. It should have been six homers except that Carlos May somehow missed touching home plate on his blast. A’s catcher Gene Tenace picked up on it and tagged him out when he was sitting in the dugout. It went as a triple in the scorebook and two RBI’s. May 31, 1970 - The torpid White Sox, on their way to the worst single season in franchise history annihilated the Red Sox in Boston 22-13. The Sox banged out 24 hits, Luis Aparicio and Walt Williams had five each with Bill Melton knocking in four RBI’s. Williams also scored five runs. The Sox had innings where they scored seven, six, four and three runs. The Sox victim that afternoon? None other than former Sox star pitcher Gary Peters who lasted less than an inning. It was the second most runs ever scored in a single game by the franchise. June 24, 1969 - In the second game of a double header in Seattle, Sox third baseman Bill Melton slugged three home runs in the 7-6 win. All were solo blasts. The Sox took the first game as well winning 6-4 with relief pitcher Wilbur Wood picking up wins in both games allowing only two hits in almost six innings of work. June 24, 1972 - Behind the inspired play of Dick Allen, Wilbur Wood, Stan Bahnsen, Rich “Goose” Gossage, Terry Forster and Carlos May, the Sox were in the middle of a pennant chase when the bizarre injury curse struck again. Third baseman Bill Melton fell off a ladder damaging his back during the previous off season and had been playing in pain ever since. The defending American League home run champion was put on the disabled list and lost for the rest of the year when it was discovered he had a herniated disk. He only played in 57 games with seven home runs and 30 RBI’s. The reason he was on the ladder? His young son was with him as he was re-nailing some patio roof shingles when the boy started to slide towards the edge. Melton caught him but fell backwards on to the ground right on his tailbone. The Sox would finish five and a half games behind the Oakland A’s with a record of 87-67. August 7, 1970 - In the midst of the worst season in franchise history, some smiles were seen after the Sox unveiled the “Big White Machine,” at Comiskey Park. The car was a 1929 Ford, rebuilt and put together by Sox players Ed Herrmann, Bill Melton, Syd O’Brien and the folks at Hawkinson Ford (now known as Hawk Ford). It circled the Comiskey Park warning track every time the Sox won a home game (which wasn’t often!) August 21, 1973 - Sox pitcher Stan Bahnsen took a no-hitter into the ninth inning against Cleveland. After getting the first two outs, former Sox outfielder Walt Williams got a ground single to left past third baseman Bill Melton. Melton inexplicably, was playing in, anticipating a possible bunt from Williams who later said under no circumstances would he try to break up a no-hitter by bunting late in the game. Stan then got the final out finishing with a one-hitter, striking out four, in the 4-0 win. September 21, 1970 - For the first time in 69 seasons, the Sox finally had a 30-home run man. Bill Melton got an upper deck shot off the Royals Aurelio Monteagudo, who pitched for the Sox the year before, for the most Sox home runs in a season at that time. That same day Luis Aparicio got his final hit in a Sox uniform. He had 1,576 of them for the White Sox. Just 672 fans were on hand to see the double header at Comiskey Park as the Sox were closing out the worst season in franchise history. September 30, 1971 - When Bill Melton smashed a home run on the last day of the season off the Brewers Bill Parsons in the third inning, he became the first Sox player to ever win a home run championship. Melton hit three home runs in the final two games to pass former Sox player Norm Cash and Reggie Jackson for the title. Typically, White Sox, he only had 33, the lowest total for a champ since 1965. In an effort to give Melton an additional at bat or two, manager Chuck Tanner had the power hitter leading off in the Sox final two games. His homer was the difference in a 2-1 win. December 11, 1975 – Sox G.M. Roland Hemond sent third baseman Bill Melton, a former A.L. home run champ, and pitcher Steve Dunning to California for first baseman Jim Spencer and outfielder Morris Nettles. Melton had a bad back and had worn out his welcome with the team, getting into a shouting match in a Milwaukee hotel lobby with broadcaster Harry Caray. Spencer meanwhile would win a Gold Glove for his defensive prowess saving many errors. He also had 18 home runs and 69 RBI’s for the “South Side Hit Men”, twice driving in eight runs in a game in 1977. Both came at Comiskey Park against the Indians and then the Twins.

Great guy. Provided a lot of great memories. I remember many of his upper deck home runs and his great opening day of 1971. Interviewed him for a book I was doing in 2000. Very open and honest. One of my all time favorite Sox players. Sad day but the memories are great. Will always remember him.

My tribute/obit for Bill: https://www.southsidesox.com/2024/12/5/24314460/bill-melton-1945-2024-in-memoriam-chicago-white-sox-dead-at-79-obituary-white-sox-history

my brothers and I were watching on tv when Bill hit his 30th on Sept 21, 1970. the first White Sox to reach the hallowed milestone. we all wish his family the best during this emotional time.

Could be Grant Taylor

Damn, would suck to miss out on another Gavin Sheets! 😉

Dang, this sucks. I grew up watching him on pre and post. He's a part of my childhood in a way. RIP Beltin Bill Melton.

THIS IS HORSE s%*#

Don’t know if I like the idea of Cubs/Mariners 3 team deal. I assume it would be Hoerner going to the Mariners and I kinda doubt he draws too much of a return back to the Sox. But also, just get the best deal and don’t worry about where Crochet goes.

Don't worry everyone.. Comskey Footlong confirmed the report as well.

He doesn’t say he knows the prospects.

Sad news. May he rest in peace.

One of the good guys. Have his autographed picture from the "old days" hanging in my den.

I guess I disagree on the lack of talent. Thorpe was a top 100 prospect heading into last season and peaked around 60th overall. Burke is a former 3rd round pick who just popped up as a top 25 pitching prospect in a Fangraphs based projection model. Cannon is a former 3rd pick who lacks ceiling, but offers a very high floor and has already performed well in the majors as a BOR innings eater. Martin was a guy with some helium before getting injured and looked pretty good last year and flashed two plus secondaries. These guys don’t have TOR potential but they could potentially solve the #3 to #5 of a decent rotation to varying degrees. And coming off a 120 loss season and needing to buy some time before the high ceiling guys hit (Schultz, Smith, & Taylor), these are exactly the type of pitchers you give starts to. Also, not sure what your comment about “built in excuses is referring to”. Steamer thinks we should get 6.5 fWAR out of them next year if they each pitch 1,000 innings total. That many innings won’t happen obviously, but I’d 100% be willing to hold Katz accountable for achieving that level of production on a per rate basis.

Wilbur Wood, Dick Allen and Bill Melton were my childhood idols. Very sad day. RIP.

He is the standard by which I judge other Sox pre- and post-game announcers. He introduced me to the Sox when I first got really into the team, and nobody has stacked up since. Rest in peace.

RIP Bill. Great guy.

Dick Allen belongs in the Hall of Fame.

Agreed. I wouldn’t bet on one of those guys to have a good season. Not even Robert due to last season and his propensity for injuries. The Sox lineup is mostly composed of AAAA quality scrubs and borderline major leaguers at best. Steamer is apparently a steaming pile of poop.

It is one thing to have specialists. It is another to be able to reuse the same players. In the NBA I can't take someone who got fouled out and put Michael Jordan in for him to because he is better. This isn't even a logic progression of something we already do, such as the pitch clock. This is an entirely new and made up thing that has no place in the game.

This is insanity, we just watched almost the exact group put up the worst season in MLB history but next season they will all be pushing 2 WAR each? No chance.

Alright, switching over to the rotation, I think the Sox should hold off making any major additions here. And by major, I obviously don’t mean good, just ones that will require a commitment of say $5M or more that will force them into a spot regardless of other options. I’d be good with signing some sort of veteran swingman on the cheap that can slot into the rotation in a pinch, but I’d prefer leaving all five spots open for our younger, more controllable arms. The reason for this is I like our in-house options and feel like we have a large enough quantity of guys to survive a season. I’m going to break this down into two sections. First, I want to go through the four guys I think deserve spots baring injury or truly disastrous spring trainings. Davis Martin (28 years old | 4.02 xERA in Y24 | 1.9 fWAR in Y25) Jonathon Cannon (24 years old | 4.37 xERA in Y24 | 1.4 fWAR in Y25) Drew Thorpe (24 years old | 4.68 xERA in Y24 | 1.5 fWAR in Y25) Sean Burke (25 years old | 3.91 xERA in Y24 | 1.7 fWAR in Y25) While this may not be the most exciting group of pitchers, they all project to be useful major league starters based on their Steamer 600 projections above and their success last year in admittedly SSS. All four of these guys should have six years of control remaining which makes them potential assets. Giving them each 32 starts next year (baring trades or injury) should be a priority for us. That leaves the #5 spot to fill and we have a lot of options there. IMO, this should be an open competition heading into spring training between the first three guys listed below. The last two guys should not be in the Opening Day mix, but could and should be pushing for rotation spots later in the season. Nick Nastrini (25 years old | Majors | TBD org | 0.5 fWAR in Y25) Ky Bush (25 years old | Majors | #9 org prospect | -0.9 fWAR in Y25) Mason Adams (25 years old | AAA | #10 org prospect | 0.3 fWAR in Y25) Jairo Iriarte (23 years old | Majors | #6 org prospect | -0.3 fWAR in Y25) Noah Schultz (21 years old | AA | #1 org prospect | 2.6 fWAR in Y25) The Steamer 600 projections above aren’t obviously pretty for the guys other than Schultz, but I think they are over-indexing on SSS in AAA / major leagues for the most part. I personally think Bush & Adams are close to being ready and are very much capable of being productive major leaguers next year. I have no idea what happened with Nastrini last season, but he went from a fringe top 100 prospect to a huge question mark. That being said, if no one grabs the role in spring training, I’d be ok with using Nick as a placeholder in the #5 spot for a month or so. See what you have and if he fails, then try him as a reliever. As for Iriarte & Schultz, while I don’t want them in the OD mix, I also don’t want to block them with a mediocre veteran. If / when they are ready, they should be given spots because their ceilings are so much greater than the other guys mentioned above.

The goal isn't to get back to 70 wins. You need superstars to win in this game.

The beauty of this in baseball is that it's random and unpredictable. You can game plan around it hoping to line up your best vs their best, but the stakes are impacted by variables that aren't predetermined. This rule would drastically alter fundamental aspects of baseball chasing a fabricated instant gratification. Walk-off wins are beautiful because any of your 1-9 could be the hero that night, and arbitrarily being able to jump the batting order to insert a star player cheapens those moments, and the game itself. We don't need to ruin baseball by turning it into football or basketball.

Got ya, and agree. I’d hope for 2 from their 7-12 range…that might even be pushing it for Hoerner.

@Y2Jimmy0 - Are you hearing something else?

Also, just to be clear I wasn't calling you insane it was indeed the projections. I don't see any way that all happens.

No, it actually puts the A's under the microscope. Yes they have to spend. They just kicked themselves out of Oakland. Right before Tampa is telling the Rays to stick it. Big city owners are getting tired of the owners who take the profit sharing and laugh. So, yeah, the A's have to sign a few free agents to keep enough of their fellow owners voting for their decisions that fall under league approval.

Or they get a metric fuckton for him.

Aw man. Melton always came across as a such a good dude. Rest in peace.

Ah the famous compliment, being compared to Red Sox fans. Well done Getz.

This is a horrible idea and not just because last year’s golden bat for the Sox would have been Paul DeJong.