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Now do Vargas.

Unlike Gavin Lux, who has fully lived up to that vaunted potential you told us about!

I think it's incredibly honest and if you gave truth serum to the 2024 White Sox, my guess is a majority of the players would say the same thing. They won 41 games. By July, from a simple human perspective, I think it's a very natural reaction. Of course I would want every player to be giving 100% all the time. I also don't think it's realistic. And while I completely understand baseball is different than most other professional fields, if you're at a job or with a company that has zero direction, poor leadership, poor training and poor infrastructure...when you roll up to your cube each day, are you going "all-in" for that company each day, giving it max effort all 40 hours a week? For most...probably not? I'm not defending Kopech and saying his actions are acceptable, but I'd also be a liar if I said I didn't understand where he was coming from with that quote.

The reason why there's a losing culture is because players like Kopech, Robert, Benintendi, Moncada, Eloy etc didn't play up to their abilities. Move on from all of them and never look back.

But you're not playing Major League Baseball and you have no idea what it would be like to have your season be over 2 weeks into a 6 month long grind. People need to get out of the mindset its just adults playing a game for a living when its a far more demanding career than the majority of the fanbase that criticizes it has.

Definitely thought Jeff Bolker was another minor league signing before clicking into the thread.

I always get a kick out of when the “playing a kids game” line is dropped. We acknowledge that it’s a business, while doing our own roster and payroll breakdowns. We buy expensive clothing with players names on the back. We get upset at players when they don’t meet our expectations. We take it all very seriously. But when it’s convenient to the argument, we simply minimize it to a silly children’s game.

Fun fact... if anyone plays Immaculate Grid, Dylan Cease is a nice obscure answer for any Sox player who has hit .300 or more in a season.

Can't Cease hit for himself under the new Ohtani rules? Instant offensive upgrade over probably half of our existing lineup.

I’m pretty sure the majority of human beings would struggle in similar ways if they had to endure being part of a club that ranged from the worst team in the league to the worst team in history. It isn’t a big deal in my book.

He said a lot in so little. This is absolute garbage coming from a pro athlete being paid millions to play a kids game. Zero respect for this

Dear Jeff Bolker can you tell me how to make it realistic? thanks Kyyle23

Most teams don't operate like the White Sox. If they wanted to trade for Crochet with the intent to sign him, they'll just do that without the Sox offering them some extension period.

It would be great if we lived in a world where this was true...but it's not.

Ok, let's flip this: You make your entire career earnings - in Kopech's case, that was not looking like a lot - by age 35 or so. You've got no practical real world skills. You've been ripped to shreds by fans and analysts while you struggled mentally and physically. He was amped and excited when he came up. Hell, people ripped Burger to shreds for years for his Achilles injuries because he like, enjoyed video games. It's a miracle he turned it around.

It's weird that the franchise keeps finding problem players.... it's almost like the players aren't the real problem.

I'm in my mid 60s now and don't really get excited over sports figures or athletes anymore. But when I see clips of Dick Allen, it brings back that same thrill as when I was a kid. He was my baseball hero, and to me he will always be the greatest White Sox player of all time. Dick Allen belongs in the Hall of Fame.

I am a Sox fan today because of Bill Melton and the group he came up with. I will always think of Bill along with the changing of the guard with young guns coming onboard, Bart Johnson Terry Forster, Ed Herrmann, Carlos May, and Rich Gossage a year or so later I had the pleasure of meeting Bill in person at Camelback when I took my dad to Spring Training. What a great guy, heaven just got better.

And that window to cut an extension with the player is more about the player waiving a no-trade clause.

RIP Bill. Growing up in my neck of the woods, most boys on my baseball team were admiring Ron Santo. Not me. Belton Melton all the way

This is MUST SEE TV. I have no idea where WGN got some of these highlights. My library is extensive but I've never seen some of Dick's game action before that was shown in this. Didn't even know the footage still existed. And WGN must have enhanced the highlights because they look brilliant and crystal clear. Fingers crossed for Dick and Tommy Sunday night:

What a great hitter. I remember this the most about Melton, courtesy of Lip's post: "September 30, 1971 - When Bill Melton smashed a home run on the last day of the season off the Brewers Bill Parsons in the third inning, he became the first Sox player to ever win a home run championship. Melton hit three home runs in the final two games to pass former Sox player Norm Cash and Reggie Jackson for the title. Typically, White Sox, he only had 33, the lowest total for a champ since 1965." He patrolled 3B the years the Sox had an astroturf infield and grass outfield for some reason. That 'almost' ruined the experience at Comiskey as it was ugly configuration with turf, then grass in the outfield. Not to be preachy but it's sad to see the Sox have no players to root for now like Melton, just stiffs on the 40 man for the most part. Bill played for that abysmal Sox team but still kept the fans' interest cause of Melton's homers. Lots of kids copied Melton's batting stance. Rest in peace to a Sox legend.

Just heard about his death. Obviously he was the Sox player I looked up to when I became a Fan in 1970. He was our home run hitter and seemed to be a great guy. My other favorite player was Ed Hermann and now they are both gone. Rest in Peace Bill

Wilbur Wood, Dick Allen and Bill Melton were my childhood idols. Very sad day. RIP.

Some of Bill's notations from my This Day In White Sox History file. Had the chance to meet him when I co-hosted the 40th Anniversary of the 1972 team in 2012 that was done in association with the Chicago Baseball Museum and the White Sox. Was really a great guy: March 12, 1973 - Sox third baseman and former 1971 A.L. home run champ, Bill Melton, appeared on the cover of Sports Illustrated. The caption read, “Chicago Comes Out Swinging. Slugger Bill Melton.” Melton would have a nice comeback season after missing most of 1972 with a herniated disc. He’d hit .277 with 20 home runs and 87 RBI’s. He’d be traded to the Angels after the 1975 campaign. April 7, 1971 - Charlie Finley, the A’s owner, got the first regularly scheduled opening day double header in history but was stunned when the Sox under manager Chuck Tanner beat them twice 6-5 and 12-4 at the Oakland Coliseum. Tommy John and Bart Johnson were the winning pitchers. The Sox clubbed five home runs on the day, including a grand slam by Bill Melton. It should have been six homers except that Carlos May somehow missed touching home plate on his blast. A’s catcher Gene Tenace picked up on it and tagged him out when he was sitting in the dugout. It went as a triple in the scorebook and two RBI’s. May 31, 1970 - The torpid White Sox, on their way to the worst single season in franchise history annihilated the Red Sox in Boston 22-13. The Sox banged out 24 hits, Luis Aparicio and Walt Williams had five each with Bill Melton knocking in four RBI’s. Williams also scored five runs. The Sox had innings where they scored seven, six, four and three runs. The Sox victim that afternoon? None other than former Sox star pitcher Gary Peters who lasted less than an inning. It was the second most runs ever scored in a single game by the franchise. June 24, 1969 - In the second game of a double header in Seattle, Sox third baseman Bill Melton slugged three home runs in the 7-6 win. All were solo blasts. The Sox took the first game as well winning 6-4 with relief pitcher Wilbur Wood picking up wins in both games allowing only two hits in almost six innings of work. June 24, 1972 - Behind the inspired play of Dick Allen, Wilbur Wood, Stan Bahnsen, Rich “Goose” Gossage, Terry Forster and Carlos May, the Sox were in the middle of a pennant chase when the bizarre injury curse struck again. Third baseman Bill Melton fell off a ladder damaging his back during the previous off season and had been playing in pain ever since. The defending American League home run champion was put on the disabled list and lost for the rest of the year when it was discovered he had a herniated disk. He only played in 57 games with seven home runs and 30 RBI’s. The reason he was on the ladder? His young son was with him as he was re-nailing some patio roof shingles when the boy started to slide towards the edge. Melton caught him but fell backwards on to the ground right on his tailbone. The Sox would finish five and a half games behind the Oakland A’s with a record of 87-67. August 7, 1970 - In the midst of the worst season in franchise history, some smiles were seen after the Sox unveiled the “Big White Machine,” at Comiskey Park. The car was a 1929 Ford, rebuilt and put together by Sox players Ed Herrmann, Bill Melton, Syd O’Brien and the folks at Hawkinson Ford (now known as Hawk Ford). It circled the Comiskey Park warning track every time the Sox won a home game (which wasn’t often!) August 21, 1973 - Sox pitcher Stan Bahnsen took a no-hitter into the ninth inning against Cleveland. After getting the first two outs, former Sox outfielder Walt Williams got a ground single to left past third baseman Bill Melton. Melton inexplicably, was playing in, anticipating a possible bunt from Williams who later said under no circumstances would he try to break up a no-hitter by bunting late in the game. Stan then got the final out finishing with a one-hitter, striking out four, in the 4-0 win. September 21, 1970 - For the first time in 69 seasons, the Sox finally had a 30-home run man. Bill Melton got an upper deck shot off the Royals Aurelio Monteagudo, who pitched for the Sox the year before, for the most Sox home runs in a season at that time. That same day Luis Aparicio got his final hit in a Sox uniform. He had 1,576 of them for the White Sox. Just 672 fans were on hand to see the double header at Comiskey Park as the Sox were closing out the worst season in franchise history. September 30, 1971 - When Bill Melton smashed a home run on the last day of the season off the Brewers Bill Parsons in the third inning, he became the first Sox player to ever win a home run championship. Melton hit three home runs in the final two games to pass former Sox player Norm Cash and Reggie Jackson for the title. Typically, White Sox, he only had 33, the lowest total for a champ since 1965. In an effort to give Melton an additional at bat or two, manager Chuck Tanner had the power hitter leading off in the Sox final two games. His homer was the difference in a 2-1 win. December 11, 1975 – Sox G.M. Roland Hemond sent third baseman Bill Melton, a former A.L. home run champ, and pitcher Steve Dunning to California for first baseman Jim Spencer and outfielder Morris Nettles. Melton had a bad back and had worn out his welcome with the team, getting into a shouting match in a Milwaukee hotel lobby with broadcaster Harry Caray. Spencer meanwhile would win a Gold Glove for his defensive prowess saving many errors. He also had 18 home runs and 69 RBI’s for the “South Side Hit Men”, twice driving in eight runs in a game in 1977. Both came at Comiskey Park against the Indians and then the Twins.

Part of my childhood died. RIP Beltin' Bill. There he is with Nancy Faust (with her Sandy Duncan doo) and Wilbur Wood.

Good. We don't need a Golden Bat. Terrible proposal.

Welcome to the party Jeff. One question - why exactly do you think that Andrew Vaughn is the kind of good player who should be paid whatever it takes to keep? I don't think I need to see any more of him after 4 years, I'm good with letting him go for nothing.

Welcome to Soxtalk, when did you become a White Sox fan?

MATT. DAMON.

And if Jeff Bolker states it in a thread named after himself, it has to be true.

Manfred says "no plans" for Golden At-Bat. Now claims he wasn't in favor of it. 😄 https://www.mlb.com/news/commissioner-rob-manfred-says-there-are-no-plans-for-golden-at-bat "No. 1: It has come out that I have spoken publicly about this kind of change a few years ago, that I was not particularly in favor of it, and that remains the case."

Exactly. A team would be dumb to pay a premium for a small window of time when you can just trade for him and then buy out his 2 arb years or give a big extension. Also, Crochet might agree to a deal that buys out those 2 arb years, but he ain't giving up a year of free agency when he's set to be a FA at like 27. He would sign a bigger deal than that. Glasnow example: how much more did the Rays really get in that deal for the Dodgers opportunity to pay him $150M over 5 years? Really don't think it's that much of a difference. It's not adding that much value to it. I think some people are reading way too into Crochet's extension comments around the trade deadline where he was trying to leverage himself pitching in the playoffs in a year he was way past what people thought he would pitch innings wise for guaranteed money.

That is much more of a fair trade than my initial knee jerk reaction thought it was.

He makes the Chicago Bears look like the Dodgers. Really King s%*#. Imagine blaming the employees and not the fucking owner. I guess when your paycheck depends on something you'll say anything.

lol here is the reason for the losing culture:

An all time favorite of mine, met him at a golf outing about 33 years ago, great guy, may he rest in peace.

Man, it stops being a kids sport at once they're playing on AAU teams, getting scouted in HS, getting NIL money, and getting millions for non-guaranteed careers in the minors. Let's not even bring up the gun-toting agents in Latin America, Cuban players risking everything to get here (Abreu ate a fucking passport), and semi-predatory loan companies that take advantage of young minor leaguers.

Players I do not want on the Sox: "I was in a position to where I hate to say I was going through the motions. You know you’re not playing for anything other than your own career, and when you don’t want to play a selfish game because it’s not a selfish game, it makes it really hard." Players I want on the Sox: " I am in a position to show leadership through work ethic, attitude, and communication to inspire my teammates to never quit and pull together as a team." Real World : If your wife/girlfriend asks you if she looks fat in an outfit, answer : "no, you look great" , anything she's cooks is delicious, her new hair style is awesome.

^^^This. The players are human. They knew they were a shitty team going nowhere and that it wasn't going to get better any time soon.

They also need a LatAm program that contributes anything. I asked the BA writer if there were any recent signings in the top 30 and he said no. It’s very possible the only one is Wilfred Veras who we signed in 2019. Thank god Paddy is finally gone because an org can’t survive long-term with one of its two key pipelines being completely devoid of talent.

KC, Minnesota, Cleveland, and Detroit vote no.

I know that. What doesn’t make sense is the fan proposals of them giving up their big prospects to the Sox like they’re the ones trading for Crochet when they’re only getting Hoerner. Thats what doesn’t make sense.

It doesn’t really make sense for Seattle (unless more was going there)

I don’t think anything amazing, and he doesn’t really fit the big offensive upgrades they want.

It would seem Mariners need more than Nico to give up anyone of significance.

Moncada overcame those issues though and put up some really nice seasons. His eventual downfall had nothing to do with initial struggles.

Why? I would think opposite. Go all in. Especially since you have Soto under contract for longer some of the guys you would have under control and move them to help now.