wrathofhahn

Your passion came through. I am just glad there are still sox fans passionate about this club. I barely care when this team loses anymore and I have zero confidence in the current group. I personally wish there were interviewers who just say the truth of what fans think even if they couch it by saying the fanbase thinks you are terrible, are making awful trades, and should be fired. How would you defend the Cease trade. How do you defend the Maldonado signing. Why didn't you ask for Carlson back from the Cardinals. How do you plan on improving the talent base for this club in the short term to put a watchable product on the field not just signing washed up stop gap vets who are just looking for an opportunity. None of the CWS media has the balls to ask these questions. NY media does that is only because they don't care about access as much. I maybe watch a game a week now and when football starts that will be 0

What did he say that people found offensive? Am I missing something?

He averages 30 homer runs per 162 he'll be fine if his hammy is fine

I acknowledge that he had no value when we moved him, that does not equate to him has no value in the past or in the future. With the Orioles, he still has time to regain value the season is not over. This brings me back to my earlier statement that a large portion of Chris Getz terrible performance as GM has been due to his ability to manage assets, weigh the pros and cons of making trades, and making deals at the proper time. For example, did I like the Cease trade? No, but that does not mean there was not a better deal available at that time what it means is you have control you manage the asset, and don't panic yourself into taking the best bad offer. In some cases, you have to trade players because they are going to become free agents; you take what you can get and move on. Eloy did not have to be moved; we just wanted to. Kopech did not have to be moved; we just wanted to. Cease did not have to be moved; we just wanted to. All three trades are biting us in the ass hard. Cease would have been worth multitudes more at the deadline. Kopech stuff should have had us continue to try until we had to pull the plug. Eloy option would have given us the flexibility to walk away if he didn't bounce back.

He has never been below replacement level until this season. I have much more faith in his bat than, clearly, most of the board does. I am kind of confused as to why people on this board think he can't hit when he has been dealing with soft tissue injuries the entire year. You guys think he forgot how to hit? He is a career. 800 OPS hitter. This isn't the result of his current hitting either; I said it at the time of the trade. To me, it just was a dumb bet because all it did was save JR money this year. If he finishes with a.850 OPS or better, that option is getting picked up, and he will have good trade value. I feel like some people are still stuck in 2015 prices. Josh Bell got 2/33, coming off a.780 Ops year that is the market floor. His injury history may prevent him from getting a deal longer than a year, but 1/16 or 1/13.5, depending on how you factor in his buyout, is more than reasonable if he finishes the year strong. It just is.

I agree. For that reason, so they recover or gain any kind of value, you should hold onto them. If not, you let them go as free agents and move on. These guys with that kind of stuff are genuinely hard to find in Major League Baseball; you can not find enough worthy bounce-back candidates to fill a roster. In actuality, there is not a better way to get impact prospects then these guys having a bounce back year as an Erick Freede is an example of that. We should be trying to fill our roster full of these guys and moving them when their value is at their highest point or they are about to be free agents not moving them when they have control and they have almost no trade value.

Kopech and Eloy weren't trash they were high upside guys. We loved to trash them because we expected them to be key pieces of our roster but there were both guys who had the potential build much more value. in particular, Kopech, who will not cost a fortune and has an additional year. Eloy had that option year that was valuable if he hits well he has a 1.22 OPS since the trade noone expects that to continue but if he finishes with 850 to 900 ops it's getting picked up. Guys like Josh got 2/33 some team will give him 1/16. Dylan Carlson was someone Stl wanted to move, so why was not he included in the deal? We needed those at bats for sheets? He's under control til 2027 former prospect who can play all three OF positions so if you can fix him he's either valuable to the sox or in a trade. It's whatever TB got him instead because they actually know how to retool a roster. We'll go out and sign another pillar trade him for trash and everyone will say see we got something for him not asking the question why are we wasting the time with the pillars of the world in the first place

I find this doubtful if he continues to hit. We also moved Kopech who'd we replace them with? Washed vets. We should be buying low on the Kopechs, Eloys, and Carsons of the world and seeing if we can turn around someone. Instead its more filler and just trash that noone wants and never will build any sort of value.

This trade was dumb salary dump when we should be trying to spend money to build an asset base. It's so hard to be a fan of this team because they are run by morons.

Judging him on the individual trades is only part of the evaluation it's how he is managing the assets and WHEN he is doing the trade. Selling Cease when he did was a mistake. Cease is worth much more now then he was then. Not moving Roberts was a huge mistake he is worth less now then he was in the offseason. Moving Kopech as a throw in could easily bite us and if it doesn't then where is the upside? I could go on and on. It's about the though process that goes into the decision making and the timing of these deals that I have the biggest problem with. Judging on him the individual deals is much more difficult because we aren't there and we don't know what other offers are out there but we do know the returns haven't been great

Agreed we didn't get Carson either. It's like we are addicted to bringing in washed up vets rather than change of scenery type high ceiling players. We don't value them internally and we don't trade for them. And people wonder why we get trash returns well if you don't even try to build an asset base and all you have are washed vets who want AB's those guys aren't worth much of anything at the deadline. You can package a hundred phrams and dejongs and pillars together none of them ever is going to give you much

With the option being a sunk cost for us it's really 1/13.5 If he hits for the remainder of the season it's not unreasonable at all, if he doesn't you walk away. There is a reason why a smart organization like the orioles made the trade.

He's almost 25.

I disagree on multiple fronts. One his option is exactly what makes him attractive to keep past the deadline. If he comes back and plays healthy and has a strong back half of the season his option can be picked up and moved in the offseason for a heck of a lot more than the trash we got in return if he isn't worth it we can just walk away for 3.5M at the end of the year. Personally, I still believe in his bat. I just don't believe in him being able to stay healthy but if he does you have an asset at the end of the year. I don't believe in Roberts health either which is why I wanted him moved in the offseason. It's about moving these players at the right time not when they are worthless

F- Unlike most here I don't agree with moving Eloy. I mean that is basically Beni money. We would be better off hoping he has a healthy stretch THEN moving him. Like Roberts had last year but our dumbass FO kept him. We keep selling off these guys without getting anything in return. How does that help us? Salary? We aren't going to use his salary more effectively elsewhere. I don't like the other deal. Why we didn't end up with Carson is baffling when STL was prepared to just give him away to the Rays but that is why the Rays are the Rays and we are the whitesox. I don't agree with moving Kopech he is exactly the high upside arm we should be keeping once again we sold low. If he was key to the deal fine but the deal wasn't good to begin with. Dejong is trash and we got a trash return. The trade doesn't affect my grade either way other than we wasted a roster spot when we could have promised a higher ceiling a guy a spot on the team and snagged someone better.

The earlier 3 team trade between the Cardinals and Dodgers. We constantly bring in low ceiling trash and waste time when we should be bringing in high upside guys that have failed elsewhere that have control. If they develop into something they can be moved later and if not well they aren't going to cost much. Dejong was never going to be good. He had no control. He had no potential value at the deadline it was a wasted roster spot.

The return is minimal. Hard to get excited about the move period. We should have used his roster spot for someone who was more high upside. Like for example the Cardinals are trying to move Carlson why wasn't he part of the deal. He'd almost be given away at this point he'd be a nice reclamation target.

They do often do prospect updates after trades. There no conspiracy lol

Gatz targeted the right players but got horrendous value.

I said it when Thorpe was in the minors putting up numbers that it is one thing to make minor league hitters chase your curveball it's another for major league hitters. He has a 5.71 xFIP he is not better than cease right now. Cease has a 3.12 xFIP. Furthermore guys with his pitch profile usually end up as back the rotation type starters. Are there exceptions like Keuchel (when he was good), Kluber, Mark Buehrle, etc but guys with a 91-92 fastball are not at the front of most rotations. The problem is when people treat those guys as the rule rather than the exception. I remember when madrigal was drafted. I said with that dudes frame he will never hit for power. People then said well look at Peddie and Altuve. Well look at Madrigal. The rule is the rule for a reason and exceptions are the exceptions for a reason. There is a reason why SD moved Thorpe Preller is very good at identifying the talent within his organization and moving the right prospects. We suck at it. Not only identifying other teams minor league talent to trade for but also our own minor league talent and draft selections. Anyways I am rambling at this point.

At the time, I said so. Not only did I hate the return on this trade, but we were also not under any sort of rushed timeframe to accept a bad deal at that particular time; we could afford to be patient and as fans we all knew at that point the Cease value was at its lowest. As the deadline approaches, the reporting is that teams are in a desperate search for players in particular starting pitching, as there are not many viable sellers. We should have been in the drivers seat with three premier starters, demanding a ransom for the cease. We have such a clueless FO. Roberts was the one we ought to have moved in the offseason, but he was untouchable. Why? For some reason the FO behaved like we were retooling instead of rebuilding and it is beyond me the logic behind it. We were one of the worst teams in the league that apparent in the offseason. No one should be shocked by this. Roberts was the most valuable he has ever been, so we ought to have invested in trading him first rather than Cease. As an organization, we sell low and buy high, then wonder why we can't compete in the MLB with a midmarket budget. For me, as long as the decision-making process is sound, I am willing to accept individual bad outcomes and will not be harsh on a FO who makes good decisions but ends up with bad results because, as long as the process is sound, eventually things will turn around. For me, trading Cease was a firable offense just because it showed a total lack of strategic vision. That is still my belief. I have zero belief in the white sox turning things around in the near future to be honest my fandom is hanging on by a thread. I barely watch the games because what is the point. I follow the boxscores still and I follow what is happening with our prospects but I barely watch 1/10 the games. I used to never miss a game but there is just no reason to watch there isn't even a roster full of names hoping to rebuild their value. Just trash up and down the roster with the exception of a handful of players.

I mean the whitesox love flushing money on washed vets.

If we get a top 50 for him I would be thrilled. What is more likely is we get a fringy top 100 prospect and an interesting prospect that is well outside their top ten.

Meh, for me the main reason to bring back someone like Tim Anderson would be to pump and dump him at the deadline. Four weeks isn't enough to accumulate any value so why bother. I don't really care if he is brought back and honestly why would he want to come back and play for this shithole of a team? Let him latch onto a contender who has an injury or a spot open and let it go