wrathofhahn

QUOTE (soxforlife05 @ Dec 14, 2017 -> 08:19 PM) I'm pretty sure Kopech was not a top 10 prospect when he was moved. Moncada was 1, Kopech was top 25 and Devers was around 50-75 range if I recall. Devers and Kopech were both in A ball prior to that offseason of the trade. BA had Kopech 32. Devers was 18. You aren't getting all three in a trade. Honestly, Kopech right now is probably worth more.

QUOTE (Baron @ Dec 14, 2017 -> 06:56 PM) The O's are fairly pathetic. Why worry about what the Yankees will do? Maybe we trade him at the deadline. So beat them. Isnt that what this sport is about? It's actually more funny to look at it from the perspective that even the Orioles question the wisdom of a Machado move for the Whitesox and are looking for ulterior motives

QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Dec 14, 2017 -> 06:40 PM) Why? Because you are locked in with one year of Machado.

QUOTE (yesterday333 @ Dec 14, 2017 -> 06:32 PM) Its not a strong offer... no top prospects... and we get a year to pitch to him. whats the down side? The downside is it locks you into a roster that isnt good enough and prevents you from dealing either Abreu or Garcia possibly both. There is also the non-zero chance Machado gets injured or has another down year. There is risk plenty. Of course there is upside too but all this is predicated on the Orioles accepting a bad offer. Why woudn't they keep him. Why wouldn't they see where they are at the deadline and either move him for prospects or take the pick? They are already locked in. Other then Britton not much else on their roster has significant value.

QUOTE (wrathofhahn @ Dec 14, 2017 -> 05:25 PM) What are the chances the Sox flip him to the Yankees and are doing a stealth 3-way? Angelos doesn't want to deal in division and they want MLB ready pitching (which the yankees don't want remove). Maybe we deal for him with Fulmer or Gilolito then ship him to the yanks for Frazier. QUOTE (Sleepy Harold @ Dec 14, 2017 -> 06:10 PM) Bob Nightengale @BNightengale 43s The Baltimore #Orioles ready to trade Manny Machado - but fear a back channel to the Bronx. The #Whitesox offer not nearly as strong as rumored usatoday.com/story/sports/m… Now it's starting to make some sense

QUOTE (GreenSox @ Dec 14, 2017 -> 06:09 PM) Of course. The best way to get Machado is to a) amass the most talent you can between now and then (instead of depleting it) and b) (dare I suggest) OFFER Him more money than the other suitors. Agreed the problem lies is the O's aren't stupid they are going to want controllable players the very same players where you could use the cost savings to keep the payroll low and justify making a big offer to Machado. The other problem with Machado is it basically locks you into going for it this year. You can't trade Abreu. You can't trade Garcia. If someone comes at you large offer I want Hahn to be able to make deals. I don't want the club to be trapped because they traded for Machado hell I wouldn't want them to be trapped if they were a borderline WC team but I don't think anyone thinks even with Machado this team is anywhere close to a WC team. This would be a tremendously dumb trade regardless of the cost. I guess the only way it might make some sense if they bought him at dirt cheap like the Yankees did with Chapman and he didn't affect the direction of the offseason but I doubt the Orioles sell him for that they'd just keep him wait for the deadline or recoup the pick.

QUOTE (Jack Parkman @ Dec 14, 2017 -> 05:57 PM) One can only hope that Angelos and JR are good chums and Angelos saves JR from his own inept FO. Hearing what I have today, I have lost an incredible amount of faith in the FO to see the rebuild through and do it right. They are trying a shortcut. If they don't think they can compete with other markets for Machado's services on the open market, then they should cross him out as an option and move the f*** on to other options, because bringing him here, I'm 99% sure will change nothing. If anything they should be selling off Abreu and Garcia figure out what they have for next year when it comes to prospects figure out a bullpen (move guys in and out) and get things squared away for next year. That's when the next wave of talent will happen and when it will pay to have a clean payroll The idea that Machado is going to want to play for the sox or harper or whomever after playing a bunch of meaningless games for a team destined to miss the WC is just fantastical thinking. He'll accept the best offer. The best way to be able to persuade him is by using the surplus value of the players you would have to use to trade for him and direct that money into a FA offer.

QUOTE (Soxnfins @ Dec 14, 2017 -> 05:20 PM) ???? What are the chances the Sox flip him to the Yankees and are doing a stealth 3-way? Angelos doesn't want to deal in division and they want MLB ready pitching (which the yankees don't want remove). Maybe we deal for him with Fulmer or Gilolito then ship him to the yanks for Frazier.

QUOTE (Jose Abreu @ Dec 14, 2017 -> 02:53 PM) Clark is legit, he has Baltimore sources. And I guarantee you Kopech will not be traded. The Rosenthal Kopech/Giolito piece was likely posturing from Baltimore. Wouldn't be surprised if it were a Rodon/Rutherford package, though. I hope this is true. This reminds me of the RA Dickey deal. I believed until the minute the trade was consummated that there was zero chance AA was going to give up Thor and TDA. Then afterwards I said he should be fired. Honestly, if Hahn gives up anything close to whats being bandied about he should be fired effective immediately. Machado is a very good sometimes great player but he won't lead the CHW to a wildcard and if you give up 6 years of a cost controlled potential ace in Kopach or even a number 3 like Giolito for someone who isn't going to win you a meaningful game and has zero control past this year. You deserve to be fired.

QUOTE (Sleepy Harold @ Dec 14, 2017 -> 01:22 PM) Bob Nightengale @BNightengale 13s The #SFGiants and #Bluejays have talked to the #Whitesox about acquiring outfielder Avisail Garcia, but nothing close Interesting the thing about the Giants is they really have no depth interm of prospects and the guys at the top are barely or just outside of the top 100. So for a guy like Garcia their offer could actually be the best. Something along the lines of Arroyo + Suarez or Beede + Suarez + Rodolfo

QUOTE (Quin @ Dec 14, 2017 -> 12:48 PM) If Machado has "only hit" for two years, I'd really like to see what an average player is. He's hit well every year since he was 20. Even last year's down year saw great power numbers. Then throw in his defense. BRef has his Rbat total as 61. 52 of those runs came in those two years.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Dec 14, 2017 -> 11:42 AM) He's had 3 seasons where he's put up over a 6.0 fWAR. He's 6 days older than Nicky Delmonico. BTW, Yaz in 1967, when Hawk talks about him....12.4 WAR Yeah, the problem with Machado is when you look at Stanton there has been consistent production across the board he's always hit. Machado has really only hit for two years 2015, 2016 the problem is he's been in the league for 6 years. Of course you could write it off with him taking his time to figure out MLB pitching until last year. Where he slashed .259/.310/.471/.782. Now there has to be some concern not a ton but some about giving him a long term deal for Stanton money. What do you do if he regresses to the .750 ish hitter? 10 years is a long time. Orioles got burned badly with Davis in a similar way

QUOTE (hi8is @ Dec 14, 2017 -> 12:28 PM) And we could have had him it seems, for just 500k https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2017/12/pira...pool-space.html That isn't even real money. That is the right to spend 500K.

It's also important to mention that Machado finished with a .782 OPS last season and a 3.5 WAR. The Orioles missed the playoffs and lost over 85 games. People are acting like he's Ruth. Sure he's normally a 6ish WAR player which is really, really good but it's not earth shattering.

Trading for Machado would be beyond stupid and undo much of the work the Hahn accomplished last year.

QUOTE (bmags @ Dec 13, 2017 -> 10:26 PM) The giants farm system is garbage. Acording to Mayo they don't have one top 100 prospect. I still kind of like Beede though. Though his stuff is supposed to have declined since the draft

I still think the Redsox circle back to Abreu. They have extensions coming to Metts and Bogarts and already have Price and the midget extended into 2022. Kimbrel is a FA next year. Sale in 2020. I find it hard to believe they want to commit to someone like JD longterm or even worse someone like Hosmer who is not the answer and will be expensive. Also this year is kind of weird. The market for OF is much better then 1B/DH.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Dec 13, 2017 -> 09:42 PM) I think he is probably right. I think it is just a token effort to get their name attached to his for next year. I wouldn't put it past the O's to plant this story. I mean if I'm shopping a player I want suitors to think two of the teams with the top farms Yankees and Sox are interested. I just don't see the fit. Machado is not going to get you to a wildcard and in the offseason all it will take is money. Some other team in win now mode will overpay as they should.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Dec 13, 2017 -> 08:44 PM) His agent is Dan Lozano. Ah thanks just read an article with Boras commenting on his pending FA. Should have double checked BR to make sure. I'm sure Lozano loves Boras commenting on his clients. http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/orioles...1213-story.html

QUOTE (Kalapse @ Dec 13, 2017 -> 08:37 PM) Except the risk in this scenario is significant with a very real chance of just pissing away assets. If the Orioles agree to trade Manny in December it's going to cost very significant assets, not lesser prospects that we see as expendable all for the opportunity to hope Manny does the Sox a solid and limits his future earnings 2 months away from free agency because he really likes "Sox culture". It's in no way a risk worth taking. Agreed. Also his agent is Boras he almost always convinces his clients to take the highest offer.

The problem for Hahn is the market is flooded with outfielders. I mean the Marlins just moved Ozuna. They look like they will move Yelich. Yankies are talking about moving Frazier and are likely moving either Gardner or Ellsbury. You have Cain, Bruce, JD Martinez and Cargo as free agents. You also have lesser bounce back guys like Gomez, Ethier, Bautista, Granderson, and Maybin. Hard to see there being much of a market right now. I mean you can go out and sign a bounce back guy for about the same cost I think Garcia is a guy if you do move you do so midseason when these teams start to realize some of these players aren't going to contribute for them and also Garcia would also at that point have more data where teams would feel comfortable giving up prospects. Really the only team that sort of has to desperately make a move is SF. Their OF is awful.

QUOTE (GreenSox @ Dec 13, 2017 -> 07:48 PM) Davidson is more productive than this guy. Honestly.... Problem with Jose is he doesn't seem the type of player who would handle a rebuilding team well.