wrathofhahn

QUOTE (oldsox @ Dec 17, 2017 -> 01:04 PM) Dodgers have a lot of prospects, no doubt about it. Yep they have plenty of depth and intriguing guys. Which is what happens when you are willing to spend over 30 million EACH for guys like Alvarez and Diaz after penalties. It's just a bunch of the top guys with the exception of Verdugo took a step back. Buehler was awful in his debut. Kendell struggled when promoted. Alvarez struggled with command.

QUOTE (BlackSox13 @ Dec 17, 2017 -> 12:32 PM) I'd say you're pretty close on this. Luis Robert got a 26M signing bonus and is currently ranked #23 on mlbs pipeline. Kemp should be worth about half of his remaining 42M. So we would be looking for a prospect who's value is around 20M, give or take. Probably won't get Verdugo ( ranked #24 ) but maybe Kemp + one of Alvarez/Kendall/Diaz gets it done. I like the idea of Lux. Add Caleb Ferguson to Lux and Kemp, and I'm in. Yeah, if you take a look at what Liriano went for it was two fringy top 100 guys he was making less and had some upside vs Kemp who has none. So at the very least I'd want two guys just inside or outside the top 100 with upside and looking at the dodgers system there isn't much there. Thier top guys struggled badly. Even Alvarez who I like was pretty bad in 2017 had command issues and 1.6 WHIP. Their bottom 100 guys don't really excite me Lux is interesting but he struggled to hit in A ball. It all depends on how motivated the Dodgers are to move him I wouldn't be surprised to see a team end up with more. Kemp is a toxic asset.

QUOTE (ChiSoxJon @ Dec 17, 2017 -> 10:30 AM) Matt Kemp and Gavin Lux to the SouthSide? Need more then that for 42 million. He's essentially worth at most 1 year 5 million ish. That means you are talking a top 40 prospect or two top 100 prospects you like.

QUOTE (Middle Buffalo @ Dec 17, 2017 -> 09:01 AM) This should be explored by the Sox. I don't understand why the Braves wouldn't have insisted on getting a prospect back. It doesn't make sense for one team to bail out another financially without getting prospects back. The Stanton trade was the same. Why would the Marlins not insist on one of the Yankees' top 5 prospects in addition to taking Castro's contract? AA was with dodgers previously he was doing his old org a solid

QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Dec 15, 2017 -> 07:08 PM) It's about what he was projected to get. I like the deal. He's a good player. I thought the AAV was high term is fine but he should be getting around 50 million over 3. Phillies likely had to pay a premium. WEEI reported that the Sox had interest. They also touched base with the A's regarding Davis. They do not want to give Hosmer 150+ million lol

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Dec 15, 2017 -> 05:02 PM) Hahn is saying that the odds are better that he re-signs with the White Sox if he is acquired, which is literally true, because they will have exclusive negotiating rights. No one except Manny Machado will know exactly what those odds are. So no, you can't say they go from "almost nothing to solid." They improve. How much is non-quantifiable. They could actually decrease if you look at it from the perspective that the Sox aren't ready and he joins a team that loses 80 games.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 15, 2017 -> 03:14 PM) It almost has to have teams re-examine what his trade surplus value is. Yes. The Sox desperately need a middle of the order bat. Hosmer is a guy whose put up 9.9 WAR in his 7 year MLB career. Most of his "success" last year was due to an abnormal BABIP. .351. His career BABIP is .316. Anyone who gives this dude 175 million is a fool. If I was Boston I'd give up Groome, Chavis, Houck and Bradley before committing to Hosmer. JD Martinez thats another story but Hosmer is going to be one of those FA contracts whose costs their gm their job

QUOTE (fathom @ Dec 15, 2017 -> 04:21 PM) But that's also why I suspect the offers now are way better than many suspect on here. Why wouldn't Orioles just hold on to him until the deadline? Cheap?

QUOTE (Quin @ Dec 14, 2017 -> 08:41 PM) MLB had Devers like #14 17th. https://www.baseball-reference.com/register...id=devers000raf

QUOTE (soxforlife05 @ Dec 14, 2017 -> 08:19 PM) I'm pretty sure Kopech was not a top 10 prospect when he was moved. Moncada was 1, Kopech was top 25 and Devers was around 50-75 range if I recall. Devers and Kopech were both in A ball prior to that offseason of the trade. BA had Kopech 32. Devers was 18. You aren't getting all three in a trade. Honestly, Kopech right now is probably worth more.

QUOTE (Baron @ Dec 14, 2017 -> 06:56 PM) The O's are fairly pathetic. Why worry about what the Yankees will do? Maybe we trade him at the deadline. So beat them. Isnt that what this sport is about? It's actually more funny to look at it from the perspective that even the Orioles question the wisdom of a Machado move for the Whitesox and are looking for ulterior motives

QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Dec 14, 2017 -> 06:40 PM) Why? Because you are locked in with one year of Machado.

QUOTE (yesterday333 @ Dec 14, 2017 -> 06:32 PM) Its not a strong offer... no top prospects... and we get a year to pitch to him. whats the down side? The downside is it locks you into a roster that isnt good enough and prevents you from dealing either Abreu or Garcia possibly both. There is also the non-zero chance Machado gets injured or has another down year. There is risk plenty. Of course there is upside too but all this is predicated on the Orioles accepting a bad offer. Why woudn't they keep him. Why wouldn't they see where they are at the deadline and either move him for prospects or take the pick? They are already locked in. Other then Britton not much else on their roster has significant value.

QUOTE (wrathofhahn @ Dec 14, 2017 -> 05:25 PM) What are the chances the Sox flip him to the Yankees and are doing a stealth 3-way? Angelos doesn't want to deal in division and they want MLB ready pitching (which the yankees don't want remove). Maybe we deal for him with Fulmer or Gilolito then ship him to the yanks for Frazier. QUOTE (Sleepy Harold @ Dec 14, 2017 -> 06:10 PM) Bob Nightengale @BNightengale 43s The Baltimore #Orioles ready to trade Manny Machado - but fear a back channel to the Bronx. The #Whitesox offer not nearly as strong as rumored usatoday.com/story/sports/m… Now it's starting to make some sense

QUOTE (GreenSox @ Dec 14, 2017 -> 06:09 PM) Of course. The best way to get Machado is to a) amass the most talent you can between now and then (instead of depleting it) and b) (dare I suggest) OFFER Him more money than the other suitors. Agreed the problem lies is the O's aren't stupid they are going to want controllable players the very same players where you could use the cost savings to keep the payroll low and justify making a big offer to Machado. The other problem with Machado is it basically locks you into going for it this year. You can't trade Abreu. You can't trade Garcia. If someone comes at you large offer I want Hahn to be able to make deals. I don't want the club to be trapped because they traded for Machado hell I wouldn't want them to be trapped if they were a borderline WC team but I don't think anyone thinks even with Machado this team is anywhere close to a WC team. This would be a tremendously dumb trade regardless of the cost. I guess the only way it might make some sense if they bought him at dirt cheap like the Yankees did with Chapman and he didn't affect the direction of the offseason but I doubt the Orioles sell him for that they'd just keep him wait for the deadline or recoup the pick.

QUOTE (Jack Parkman @ Dec 14, 2017 -> 05:57 PM) One can only hope that Angelos and JR are good chums and Angelos saves JR from his own inept FO. Hearing what I have today, I have lost an incredible amount of faith in the FO to see the rebuild through and do it right. They are trying a shortcut. If they don't think they can compete with other markets for Machado's services on the open market, then they should cross him out as an option and move the f*** on to other options, because bringing him here, I'm 99% sure will change nothing. If anything they should be selling off Abreu and Garcia figure out what they have for next year when it comes to prospects figure out a bullpen (move guys in and out) and get things squared away for next year. That's when the next wave of talent will happen and when it will pay to have a clean payroll The idea that Machado is going to want to play for the sox or harper or whomever after playing a bunch of meaningless games for a team destined to miss the WC is just fantastical thinking. He'll accept the best offer. The best way to be able to persuade him is by using the surplus value of the players you would have to use to trade for him and direct that money into a FA offer.

QUOTE (Soxnfins @ Dec 14, 2017 -> 05:20 PM) ???? What are the chances the Sox flip him to the Yankees and are doing a stealth 3-way? Angelos doesn't want to deal in division and they want MLB ready pitching (which the yankees don't want remove). Maybe we deal for him with Fulmer or Gilolito then ship him to the yanks for Frazier.

QUOTE (Jose Abreu @ Dec 14, 2017 -> 02:53 PM) Clark is legit, he has Baltimore sources. And I guarantee you Kopech will not be traded. The Rosenthal Kopech/Giolito piece was likely posturing from Baltimore. Wouldn't be surprised if it were a Rodon/Rutherford package, though. I hope this is true. This reminds me of the RA Dickey deal. I believed until the minute the trade was consummated that there was zero chance AA was going to give up Thor and TDA. Then afterwards I said he should be fired. Honestly, if Hahn gives up anything close to whats being bandied about he should be fired effective immediately. Machado is a very good sometimes great player but he won't lead the CHW to a wildcard and if you give up 6 years of a cost controlled potential ace in Kopach or even a number 3 like Giolito for someone who isn't going to win you a meaningful game and has zero control past this year. You deserve to be fired.

QUOTE (Sleepy Harold @ Dec 14, 2017 -> 01:22 PM) Bob Nightengale @BNightengale 13s The #SFGiants and #Bluejays have talked to the #Whitesox about acquiring outfielder Avisail Garcia, but nothing close Interesting the thing about the Giants is they really have no depth interm of prospects and the guys at the top are barely or just outside of the top 100. So for a guy like Garcia their offer could actually be the best. Something along the lines of Arroyo + Suarez or Beede + Suarez + Rodolfo

QUOTE (Quin @ Dec 14, 2017 -> 12:48 PM) If Machado has "only hit" for two years, I'd really like to see what an average player is. He's hit well every year since he was 20. Even last year's down year saw great power numbers. Then throw in his defense. BRef has his Rbat total as 61. 52 of those runs came in those two years.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Dec 14, 2017 -> 11:42 AM) He's had 3 seasons where he's put up over a 6.0 fWAR. He's 6 days older than Nicky Delmonico. BTW, Yaz in 1967, when Hawk talks about him....12.4 WAR Yeah, the problem with Machado is when you look at Stanton there has been consistent production across the board he's always hit. Machado has really only hit for two years 2015, 2016 the problem is he's been in the league for 6 years. Of course you could write it off with him taking his time to figure out MLB pitching until last year. Where he slashed .259/.310/.471/.782. Now there has to be some concern not a ton but some about giving him a long term deal for Stanton money. What do you do if he regresses to the .750 ish hitter? 10 years is a long time. Orioles got burned badly with Davis in a similar way

QUOTE (hi8is @ Dec 14, 2017 -> 12:28 PM) And we could have had him it seems, for just 500k https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2017/12/pira...pool-space.html That isn't even real money. That is the right to spend 500K.

It's also important to mention that Machado finished with a .782 OPS last season and a 3.5 WAR. The Orioles missed the playoffs and lost over 85 games. People are acting like he's Ruth. Sure he's normally a 6ish WAR player which is really, really good but it's not earth shattering.

Trading for Machado would be beyond stupid and undo much of the work the Hahn accomplished last year.

QUOTE (bmags @ Dec 13, 2017 -> 10:26 PM) The giants farm system is garbage. Acording to Mayo they don't have one top 100 prospect. I still kind of like Beede though. Though his stuff is supposed to have declined since the draft