wrathofhahn

Where it is really going to hurt is if the Padres are out of contention and they decide to flip Cease at the deadline. Because I think they easily beat this return

I voted D. For one of the best pitchers in baseball, this is a pretty pitiful return. SD didn't give up any of their best prospects. Although I would have shot higher for Jackson Merrill or Ethan Salas, it is almost criminal that they walked away from the deal while keeping Robby Snelling and Dylan Lesko. Since Cease was our best remaining asset, this trade hurts. Next year, we would have been in a situation where we would have needed to move him, so I could see us having to make do with this kind of return. Right now? He still has 2 years of control. I am aware that the market is currently soft, but given the circumstances, you are not required to make a deal. I don't understand why we didn't just wait until the deadline instead of taking this poo platter.

Whatever Tim Anderson ends up being at least there is potential that he can rebound and have a good year. Dejong is just awful. Which has been the theme all offseason we replace guys who had down/terrible years with awful baseball players. So where is the improvement going to come from? Tim Anderson, Grandal, etc were at least bounceback candidates I am not saying I wanted them back but at least last year as a fan I could tell myself Grandal and Anderson are going to hit because they have their entire careers basically. Dejong and Maldonado are never going to hit or be anything except marginal players. In fact if either of those guys even ended up being a marginal contributor that would be a huge positive as far as I'm concerned I don't think either are going to have positive wars or be in the lineup when the season ends.

I am so tired hearing about the clubhouse. Maybe he was a problem, maybe he wasnt. Regardless this team is going to lose 100 games. Whether it loses it with a good clubhouse or a bad one quite frankly I don't care and neither should anyone else. What this team goal should be is not trading or signing glue clubhouse guys on shortterm deals who can't play but finding talent who are bounceback candidates. Those guys are often going to have stigmas attached to them whether it's something they did off the field, or not being a great clubhouse guy, or coming off a terrible year or even some combination on the three. People are acting like we can sit back and be choosy at who we offer shortterm contracts. We are like a homeless dude thumbing our nose at someone offering McDonalds demanding to go to In'N'Out instead. We are going to lose 100+ games and are openly in a rebuild we are not that attractive of a destination either. There is a decent chance if we offered 1/5M he goes to Miami anyways. The issue for me is all offseason I didn't see us targeting the guys we should.

I said at the time that Tim Anderson option wasn't some sure thing last year. I am not surprised it was declined and basically had to accept crumbs this free agency. He was historically bad last year and isn't really a SS anymore. I am torn though because 1/5M is exactly the type of deal we should have been doing ourselves and really didn't sign much in the way of bounceback candidates. Whatever this year is going to suck regardless

Hey at least teams acquire washed up veterans who used to be good, Getz is acquiring washed up veterans who were never good. He's cornering the market!

Gord Ash and the Blue Jays front office at the time steadfastly believed that KW sold them damaged goods. If memory serves they even tried to have the trade rescinded.

Its not a bad trade but we would have gotten more at last years deadline.

Can he hit enough to start? I don't really have high hopes for him as a premium prospect. I'd be fine getting him back but to me his upside is José Iglesias and his sort of floor is John McDonald. To me the big issue with Ortiz isn't the player it's how others view him. I'm fine with taking him back but not as a headliner.

The major difference between Ortiz and Madrigal is there is a bit more size to his frame. I am not a fan of either player but there never was any power potential in Madrigal. He is and was a midget. I think he was 5-6 I pointed out from day one he was never going to hit for any power. Expecting power from a guy with his build and height was stupid. Ortiz has never really hit for power in the minors either so his power is definitely a concern as well but Madrigal approach at the plate is much more advanced he makes way more contact and better contact he just will never hit for anything other than double power because physically he is over-matched. Which is why like I said at the time when we drafted him he would be a wasted pick. I am not surprised at all how he turned out.

Ha. If this was what was being offered good on Getz for saying no. He can't control if the Brewers want to bend over for the O's. It sucks the Brewers came in and took the O's scraps and 25+ year old prospects but nothing you can do. Personally, I have always thought we should hold onto Cease until the deadline. That is when you have the most leverage and with the new rules the worst move Getz could make at this point would be to trade Cease because clearly if that is the return for Burnes then there isn't a market for starting pitching right now.

We should be trading for and signing high upside players with an eye of flipping them later. Filling the roster full of hot garbage is not how to rebuild in MLB. You don't rebuild through the draft unless you want to wait 4-5 years. You rebuild via trades.

Yeah I see it playing out the opposite. Angelos already has the team pretty well stripped down for payroll. He was one of the cheapest owner in sports. Hedge fund managers don't treat sports teams commonly as their other investments. They treat it as a luxury yaht or sports car. They make their money other ways and view sports teams as expensive toys

I would have preferred we done something like Atlanta did with the Mariner take some big short term money back for a prospect who has struggled with a ton of control. If we were going to take on 20M+. I mean it's not like Geatz was going to be able to spend that money wisely elsewhere anyways. Might as well take on veteran trash for something rather than just giving away the money for nothing like MM.

We should honestly be holding onto Cease unless a team blows us away with an offer. Teams will offer more at the deadline and cease hopefully will have a bounceback year. As Mike Tyson famously said everyone has a plan until they get punched in the mouth. Almost every year teams overrate their own pitching situation then injuries take hold, guys underperform, and the realization comes that actually they don't have the horses for a deep playoff run. With the new format there are always going to be more buyers than sellers the premium price for a frontline guy starting the playoffs will be much more rather than just a guy to plug a hole which lets be honest that is more of the mindset at this point for most teams.

If he was younger or had a year pitching away from surgery then sure. But I'd ask the question lets say he was 33 coming off TJ and 2022 would he get 2/50 in this market. For me the answer is no. He also has a PO so even if your gamble plays out he will likely opt out and leave. SFG take all the future risks with almost no upside. I honestly have no idea why MLB teams do these type of contracts. He also is going to miss probably close to the first half of next year, probably pitch around 100 innings if he manages to stay healthy and play well, and for that SFG are taking on 2/50 in future risk. That is a bad bet to me.

I don't get this at all for the SFG. I mean if Ray was healthy and not coming off an arm injury it would be a fair deal but to absorb that much salary for a guy who hasn't even pitched yet. These GM's are being extremely dumb taking risks on guys coming of TJ. He has what 3/75 remaining. One year is a wash due to what they traded but that is still 50M for a guy who is going to 33-34 for those last two years and you don't even know what he will be this year.

This team is so dumb. Like dumb as a bag of rocks and if we are ever going to win anything with a mid payroll we need to be smarter than teams like the dodgers. I am starting to become numb to it. Like there is literally no reason to watch games next year our farm sucks and we signed/traded for mostly a bunch of old no to little upside players. For people talking about this dude being able to handle a pitching staff he ranked near the bottom in pitch framing, pitchers pitched better with the other catchers, he led the league in passed balls (12) while only playing 116 games, and he had a 14 percent CS that is without even getting into his hitting which atrocious. Just f'n god awful in every way. Oh and he is 37 so it may not even be the bottom. I literally have zero idea what people are expecting leadership? He can't play and he is here for the money how is he going to be respected in the clubhouse when he is hitting .125 and leading the league in PB. Players on this team know what this is and what he is at this point.

That is why we should be fine waiting until the deadline. He if healthy will be worth the most

I don't know what we are expecting why are we expecting a fresh perspective when they didnt go outside the organization? Probably going to tune out the season what is the point? The guys they brought in have little upside. Just wasting their fans time. I'll circle back once the draft kicks around.

Stassi was worth the flyer because we got him for free basically and he has been good in the past. I was fine with that move. I mean if he has .680-.700 OPS which is doable he could be worth 1-2 WAR. Of course the risk is he doesn't hit at all but he is basically just a flyer. Maldonado won't hit. Has never hit. And at 37 his defense has taken a massive step back furthermore Lee and Stassi are basically the same profile only younger and better. I'd be interested to see what Sanchez signs for because at least with him there is upside with his bat and because of that he offers something a bit different than Stassi and Lee. I suspect he would have jumped at 1/4 with a PO. Sigh but what can you do. For me this offseason what has been most depressing about this team isn't even the opportunities we missed out on it's how we havent really changed the direction of our thinking and approach. This could have easily just have been Hahn FA and noone would have noticed the difference.

I stand corrected. In their lastest ranking for the whitesox moved up to 20th. 20. Chicago White Sox 2023 preseason rank: 26 2022 midseason rank: 26 2022 preseason rank: 30 2021 midseason rank: 30 That is still really awful for a team that lost 100 games. I think fans are massively underrating how deep and painful this rebuild is going to be.

My issue with Reinsdorf is the closed club mentality of his hiring process and the fact the idiots he hire can't spend in the right areas. The whole idea that he doesn't spend enough to win is nonsense. He does. Just extremely poorly. Dodgers spent what 1B on these three pitchers. Two of which have a history of arm trouble, one who can't pitch at all coming off TJ for at least another year, and the other has a makeup that suggests future arm problems. Maybe it all works out for them but could easily just blow up in their faces. I don't look at the Dodgers and get frustrated we can't spend 300M on payroll. Anymore than I looked at the Yankees that way. If I was a Yankee fan I'd look at the Dodgers and say why aren't we spending. But there isn't the revenue stream as the 2nd Chicago team to operate anything close to what the dodgers do. In 2022 we operated a 200+ million payroll. My issue isn't payroll it's the stupidity of our front office. There were multiple avenues to get guys this offseason with control and potentially guys who are bounceback candidates either failed prospects like Kelenic and Florial or guys like Oneill we ended up with noone. This is going to make the rebuild even more painful because we aren't signing or trading for guys who are bounceback candidates who could be moved for prospects down the line we are wasting roster spots on veteran trash who either can't play or fodder who are just there to plug holes. For me that is what is most frustrating to be a sox fan right now. Just how completely dumb this team is run. I mean this team is never going to win ignoring the IFA prospect pool, not bringing in bounceback candidates, and signing veterans who are washed. You have to be smarter than teams who spend more but we are literally run near the bottom of baseball. Look at our farm it's ranked 25th in the MLB and that is after the trades before it was ranked 29th via mlb.com pipeline. How do you lose 100 games and have such an awful farm? Do they not realize how barren this organization is of talent not only at the MLB level but comparatively to other MLB teams minor league talent as well. I am just ranting at this point but like I said we are one of the dumbest run organizations in all of sports.

Roster spots are valuable even to a rebuilding club maybe even moreso to a rebuilding club because you are trying to find assets rather than plug holes. He isn't a guy who will ever be flipped for anything of note at the deadline because he cant hit. While his leadership, how well he is liked in the clubhouse, gamer mentality, and the rest of stuff can't be measured his defense including pitcher era and pitch framing can and the stats havent been good lately. Furthermore both Lee and Stassi ARE good defensive catchers.

Noone does a better job signing washed up over the hill players than our CWS..