wrathofhahn

Yeah I see it playing out the opposite. Angelos already has the team pretty well stripped down for payroll. He was one of the cheapest owner in sports. Hedge fund managers don't treat sports teams commonly as their other investments. They treat it as a luxury yaht or sports car. They make their money other ways and view sports teams as expensive toys

I would have preferred we done something like Atlanta did with the Mariner take some big short term money back for a prospect who has struggled with a ton of control. If we were going to take on 20M+. I mean it's not like Geatz was going to be able to spend that money wisely elsewhere anyways. Might as well take on veteran trash for something rather than just giving away the money for nothing like MM.

We should honestly be holding onto Cease unless a team blows us away with an offer. Teams will offer more at the deadline and cease hopefully will have a bounceback year. As Mike Tyson famously said everyone has a plan until they get punched in the mouth. Almost every year teams overrate their own pitching situation then injuries take hold, guys underperform, and the realization comes that actually they don't have the horses for a deep playoff run. With the new format there are always going to be more buyers than sellers the premium price for a frontline guy starting the playoffs will be much more rather than just a guy to plug a hole which lets be honest that is more of the mindset at this point for most teams.

If he was younger or had a year pitching away from surgery then sure. But I'd ask the question lets say he was 33 coming off TJ and 2022 would he get 2/50 in this market. For me the answer is no. He also has a PO so even if your gamble plays out he will likely opt out and leave. SFG take all the future risks with almost no upside. I honestly have no idea why MLB teams do these type of contracts. He also is going to miss probably close to the first half of next year, probably pitch around 100 innings if he manages to stay healthy and play well, and for that SFG are taking on 2/50 in future risk. That is a bad bet to me.

I don't get this at all for the SFG. I mean if Ray was healthy and not coming off an arm injury it would be a fair deal but to absorb that much salary for a guy who hasn't even pitched yet. These GM's are being extremely dumb taking risks on guys coming of TJ. He has what 3/75 remaining. One year is a wash due to what they traded but that is still 50M for a guy who is going to 33-34 for those last two years and you don't even know what he will be this year.

This team is so dumb. Like dumb as a bag of rocks and if we are ever going to win anything with a mid payroll we need to be smarter than teams like the dodgers. I am starting to become numb to it. Like there is literally no reason to watch games next year our farm sucks and we signed/traded for mostly a bunch of old no to little upside players. For people talking about this dude being able to handle a pitching staff he ranked near the bottom in pitch framing, pitchers pitched better with the other catchers, he led the league in passed balls (12) while only playing 116 games, and he had a 14 percent CS that is without even getting into his hitting which atrocious. Just f'n god awful in every way. Oh and he is 37 so it may not even be the bottom. I literally have zero idea what people are expecting leadership? He can't play and he is here for the money how is he going to be respected in the clubhouse when he is hitting .125 and leading the league in PB. Players on this team know what this is and what he is at this point.

That is why we should be fine waiting until the deadline. He if healthy will be worth the most

I don't know what we are expecting why are we expecting a fresh perspective when they didnt go outside the organization? Probably going to tune out the season what is the point? The guys they brought in have little upside. Just wasting their fans time. I'll circle back once the draft kicks around.

Stassi was worth the flyer because we got him for free basically and he has been good in the past. I was fine with that move. I mean if he has .680-.700 OPS which is doable he could be worth 1-2 WAR. Of course the risk is he doesn't hit at all but he is basically just a flyer. Maldonado won't hit. Has never hit. And at 37 his defense has taken a massive step back furthermore Lee and Stassi are basically the same profile only younger and better. I'd be interested to see what Sanchez signs for because at least with him there is upside with his bat and because of that he offers something a bit different than Stassi and Lee. I suspect he would have jumped at 1/4 with a PO. Sigh but what can you do. For me this offseason what has been most depressing about this team isn't even the opportunities we missed out on it's how we havent really changed the direction of our thinking and approach. This could have easily just have been Hahn FA and noone would have noticed the difference.

I stand corrected. In their lastest ranking for the whitesox moved up to 20th. 20. Chicago White Sox 2023 preseason rank: 26 2022 midseason rank: 26 2022 preseason rank: 30 2021 midseason rank: 30 That is still really awful for a team that lost 100 games. I think fans are massively underrating how deep and painful this rebuild is going to be.

My issue with Reinsdorf is the closed club mentality of his hiring process and the fact the idiots he hire can't spend in the right areas. The whole idea that he doesn't spend enough to win is nonsense. He does. Just extremely poorly. Dodgers spent what 1B on these three pitchers. Two of which have a history of arm trouble, one who can't pitch at all coming off TJ for at least another year, and the other has a makeup that suggests future arm problems. Maybe it all works out for them but could easily just blow up in their faces. I don't look at the Dodgers and get frustrated we can't spend 300M on payroll. Anymore than I looked at the Yankees that way. If I was a Yankee fan I'd look at the Dodgers and say why aren't we spending. But there isn't the revenue stream as the 2nd Chicago team to operate anything close to what the dodgers do. In 2022 we operated a 200+ million payroll. My issue isn't payroll it's the stupidity of our front office. There were multiple avenues to get guys this offseason with control and potentially guys who are bounceback candidates either failed prospects like Kelenic and Florial or guys like Oneill we ended up with noone. This is going to make the rebuild even more painful because we aren't signing or trading for guys who are bounceback candidates who could be moved for prospects down the line we are wasting roster spots on veteran trash who either can't play or fodder who are just there to plug holes. For me that is what is most frustrating to be a sox fan right now. Just how completely dumb this team is run. I mean this team is never going to win ignoring the IFA prospect pool, not bringing in bounceback candidates, and signing veterans who are washed. You have to be smarter than teams who spend more but we are literally run near the bottom of baseball. Look at our farm it's ranked 25th in the MLB and that is after the trades before it was ranked 29th via mlb.com pipeline. How do you lose 100 games and have such an awful farm? Do they not realize how barren this organization is of talent not only at the MLB level but comparatively to other MLB teams minor league talent as well. I am just ranting at this point but like I said we are one of the dumbest run organizations in all of sports.

Roster spots are valuable even to a rebuilding club maybe even moreso to a rebuilding club because you are trying to find assets rather than plug holes. He isn't a guy who will ever be flipped for anything of note at the deadline because he cant hit. While his leadership, how well he is liked in the clubhouse, gamer mentality, and the rest of stuff can't be measured his defense including pitcher era and pitch framing can and the stats havent been good lately. Furthermore both Lee and Stassi ARE good defensive catchers.

Noone does a better job signing washed up over the hill players than our CWS..

12 years for a pitcher is insane. The dodgers have spent a ton of money on Ohtani and Yamamoto but Ohtani won't even pitch next year due to tommy john and has a history of arm trouble. Yamamoto is small, throws hard, and now is signed for 12 years. These contracts are way too risky. People act like the Dodgers are winning it all because of these moves but they are all guys who are huge injury risks or never healthy. The other guy Glassnow he's averaged like 12 starts the last four years. I liked the trade for them but the extension means yet another injury risk

That is always a risk. I'd also point out the same risk exists for anyone we get back as an example we could get a key prospect back then him get injured during the year and need TJ surgery. There are situations where I would agree with you (mainly pitchers with a history of past injuries *cough* Rodon but cease has been durable the last three years. With that being said I'm not saying hold onto him if the CWS get a very good offer but like I said a couple of days ago most of the big prospect deals happen at the deadline. Also I am just going to say it the Rays lost that Glasnow trade big time if he set the market then the market must be very soft right now. The main asset they got from the trade are guys at the ML with control but control of guys who arent stars while valuable isn't worth sacrificing a frontline starter over. It seems like the Rays used Glasnow to dump Margot which severely diminished the return they received but it also tells us teams dont feel they have to overpay for pitching right now

Why the urgency? He'll still be a massive commodity at the deadline especially if he regains his cy-young form

Jerry has spent. Was it wisely? No. Did he meddle and get involved? Yes. But he has increased payroll it didn't work because we brought in non-impact guys essentially his hand picked people wasted a ton of his money. The problem is does Jerry or Getz have stomach to spend money in the right areas. On IFA. On rookie pool. On signing buy low option that can be flipped later. Doing a deal like Atlanta did essentially buying a longterm asset for shortterm cost. That remains to be seen.

I hope this team picks a direction rather than wasting money on non-impact players and pretending they are competing. But it really boils down the fact this team is a mess. We have barely any talent at the ML level and lost 100 games. And yet our farm system is in the bottom half in the majors even after the trades. It's bad folks and fans are severely underestimating how long this rebuild will take. It's why I would like to see them get more aggressive acquiring buy low assets. Hard throwing relievers, failed prospects who have fallen out of favor with teams, starters looking for shorterm pillow contracts. We need some assets we can move for more longterm pieces. I don't want to go through a long rebuild and the easiest way to do that is by acquiring assets that can later be moved. We should have moved Santos at last years deadline and definitely should assuming he pitches well move him at this year. We can't afford to waste opportunities.

Busch is 26. He should be dominating AAA pitching. His numbers down there mean nothing at this point other than his floor is AAAA player. For me I'd put his value as someone just outside the top 100. He is certainly someone we should not be accepting as any sort of "headliner" back in a deal. I don't really want older prospects not only because is he is 26 still in the minors and that is for a reason. The dodgers know much more than any national scouting service and if they are burying him in the minors it's for a reason. Secondly, I mean we are in the midst of a rebuild. We don't want to burn through the service time of guys on awful teams. We should be aiming for guys 2-3 years away which match up with our timetable.

Our front office are morons this is the exact type of move we should have been involved in.

I would say losing 2-3 MPH on his fastball had a much bigger impact. He was never a hard thrower but he went from throwing 93-95, to throwing 90-92

Once again teams had the opportunity to forgo FA and trade spare parts for him directly. There wasn't any rumored trade offers. During the deadline even after the Bo injury zero serious rumored interest. Clearly his current market value isn't the TO. Otherwise he would have been traded. His TO was not the bargains of bargains you make it out to be. My guess is he signs for something 1/7 or 1/8. We'll just have to see and I am fine with bringing him back at that figure.

1. It was 2/17 2. He was coming off a .723 OPS and 1.8 bWar season basically starter level. 3. Tim Anderson has been bad defensively. Look I wanted Anderson moved at the deadline but the writing is on the wall there never was any market for him. If you really want him back he can come back at 1/7 or whatever. Joey Wendle signed for what 1/2M. Sure Anderson will likely get more but Wendle just shows 30+ infielders coming off terrible years aren't valued much in this league. Personally I would be just as happy signing Wendle as I would Anderson. Wendle defense plays anywhere the field so the floor to his game is much higher even if he continues to not hit and can't get back to the .745 OPS he averaged with the Rays. When Anderson doesn't hit he is one of the worst players in baseball. I am not even sure the league views him as a pure SS anymore.

I mean who really knows with this group but it is definitely worth it. You either get a half-a-season worth vintage Gio move him for prospects or he falls apart and you walk away at the end of the year. As far as Tim Anderson goes if it was a no brainier then he would have been moved to some other club after picking up his option. I assume that was explored already. I mean we will see what he signs for. He wasn't just awful last year he was one of the worst players in baseball

Deadline is usually best time to move guys but the free market has been so crazy so who knows. But usually it's the old saying everyone has a plan until they get punched in the face aka everyone usually overrates their own guys on paper before the season starts. It's only when the real games stat and they struggle then realize their pitching is going to cost them a chance at a championship or postseason that the best opportunity presents itself.