Sarava

But how similar are those other organizations? Is Reinsdorf allowing Hahn or Williams to spend on scouting, international free agents, analytics, etc...like some of these successful smaller market teams? To me that is questionable. I'm not defending Hahn, because I agree with all your grades. I just wonder if everyone's hands are tied by Reinsdorf's cheapskate ways?

I'm not even sure what to think about some of this stuff. Is Hahn having a hard time selling the White Sox to players around the league? If so, isn't that his own fault, along with Kenny Williams and Jerry Reinsdorf? I mean, they are the ones that have led this franchise in to black hole that it's been stuck in for so long. I 100% get people being pissed off. You can only take so much. After all these years of horrible teams, I think a lot of us let our guard down and thought we were going to kill it this winter. And they started with a bang in signing Grandal - but it's been a giant fizzle since then. Same ole White Sox. In the end, it's probably Reinsdorf's fault more than anyone else. If he was willing to pay Gerrit Cole's, or Manny Machado's or Patrick Corban's, we'd probably have one or more of them. Unfortunately he chooses to run the White Sox like they are the Pittsburgh Pirates.

But they passed on the impact pitching...what am I missing here?

I didn't say great. I didn't say he's a future hall of famer. But he did have the 10th most doubles of all time last year. There's something there. That would have a serious impact on our lineup. The guy has improved quite a bit over the last few years. Now as for his time with the Cubs. I don't go by that. I rarely watch Cub games. But I have watched him lash Sox pitching the last many years. Cubs fans tell me his defense is nowhere near as bad as advertised. That's all I have to go on. Supposedly his defense has improved tremendously. And that would make sense, given that he has only played RF two seasons.

Interesting that you bring up defense, while the guy we are talking about is a poor defender himself.

I don't know what defines as a 'true' impact player in your eyes. To me, Nick Castellanos would of been an impact bat. The guy is a doubles machine.

I don't care about Steele Walker. But the trade is a big deal to me in that the Sox chose the cheap route with an underachieving player, as opposed to putting an impact player in RF.

Wheeler has been really good the last 2 years, and many feel he's poised to take it a step further. That said, I'm not saying the Sox can't have a great staff. Gio, Cease and Kopech all have TOR potential. It's just that if you added a top 2 guy in to mix with them, the potential for the rotation would of been off the charts. Finally - Keuchel is likely to get a lot more than 'innings eater' money.

Innings eaters have value, but I think most of us wanted a TOR starter going in to the off-season. Even if Keuchel pans out better than expected, he's probably no more than a #3, and it could be a lot worse. He's not the same pitcher he was 4 years ago.

It's not about how cheap we got him. I don't think many (if any) care about losing Steele Walker. It's about them once again choosing the cheap route to fill a hole, as opposed to spending money on an impact player. And there are still a couple impact players out there that could of been signed to play RF. This is the same old White Sox way of doing business, which has led to this long ass playoff drought that we're in.

We'll see I guess. I feel dejected this morning. It feels like it's setting in that this ownership has no intention of really going for it to win a World Series with this rebuild.

Hmm, let me think about this for a moment....hell no!

Hopefully they're trying to nudge Castellanos to sign.

I'd argue Bryant has fed the Cubs way more than they ever fed him.

Gotcha. I think we all can agree that if we move a high-end prospect like Vaughn, the SP coming back needs to be younger and more in their prime than Price is.

Yeah I saw that. I don't blame the Sox for not getting involved in this, assuming they aren't. This isn't a battle they would win.

Hmm, we're different in a few ways. I am willing to trade Vaughn for the right deal. But Betts sure as hell ain't it. Because there's no chance he re-signs here. So I'm not giving up a monster prospect for a one year rental. That would be horrible asset management. If the Sox move Vaughn, it should be for a SP with at least 3 years of control.

They tried to sign Wheeler and failed. They apparently don't want to spend on Cole or Strasburg. So bash them for that if you like. But otherwise, what else do you want them to do? There's major risks with all the rest of the available free agent SP's. Most of the rest look like bad contracts waiting to happen.

I've been saying this all week since we missed Wheeler. It's felt eery and weird that I didn't feel like anyone around here agreed with me that they need to do this. Just don't trade Madigral please.

So...Betts leaves after 1 year. We then are stuck with an overpriced Price (with some salary relief), but have given up Vaughn to boot? No thanks.

Yeah we're not on the same page in this discussion. I'm trying to point out how Vaughn will have a lot of value around the league. Forget about the Mets. There's a lot of teams in rebuilds, or considering entering one since they're so popular these days. Heck, some teams might want to retool on the fly.

If there was a need, I think you could. DeGrom would be the less likely one. But really, it's just about getting a TOR starter. I don't care how the Sox get one. They need one to make this rebuild work. It doesn't have to be through free agency. The one thing I don't want them doing is wildly throwing 100 mil at some pitcher they have no faith in, only because they're too cheap for Cole/Strasburg and they lost out on Wheeler. That will kill the rebuild faster than anything IMO.

Come on. The point just flew right over your head. I'm throwing out a random example of how Vaughn might fetch a TOR starter. I don't care who he is, or what team it might be with. It could be an established TOR starter. It could be a young starter on the verge of it. A guy like Vaughn will get teams to listen.

You said that better than I did ?

As much as I'd like to see Bruce Levine look like an ass. I don't think the Sox would put him out there to look stupid if this was imminent. They probably would of just said they have no comment.