WestEddy

Now you're just being silly. Nobody has disproven my assertion that Getz isn't "inexperienced", coming into the GM role, and I haven't been given any evidence that he was anything less than an average director of player development in his 3 years in that role. Graduating top prospects isn't a negative in this case. Joke all you want, it's all you really have, right now.

You still haven't posted any evidence to disprove my stated point. You haven't dug at all. KW/Hahn rushed the first rounders, and I'm not sure if Hostetler was a crappy director of scouting, or if KW/JR just bum rushed the war room and started throwing darts. But you haven't even made a point, yet.

He was promoted out of the role in 2020 to Asst. GM. Seby Zavala was developed into a plus defensive catcher from a bat first late-rounder.

Hasn't Vera been battling injuries during his time with the Sox? It looks like Vera's longest stretch at any level was 24 innings spread over 8 starts at Kannapolis last year. Are you claiming that Getz somehow hurt him after leaving the Player Development position? It sounds like you're saying Chris Getz was an average Director of Player Development. I've made a few lists of players that came up under Getz. Again, I'm asking for a list of hot prospects that failed under Getz during his tenure. not a list of guys from 2012 to the present who were disappointing.

No, and that's not even the argument I'm making. I'm not even sure what you're doing at this point. Maybe you should read up-string, and argue the actual points I've made, instead of assigning me blame for what the voices in your head are saying. Let me catch you up: My argument is that while director of player development, he graduated the players he should have, and increased the rate of players who could sub in for 50 games and provide value. I don't really care that you hate Rick Hahn, or Jerry Reinsdorf, or pretend that all front offices spend their days sitting around and laughing at baseball players.

Let me know where I've argued that. Nicky Delmonico put out a pretty useful 1.4 bWAR in 43 games in 2017. The league adjusted to him, and he never really recovered. Also, please tell me how that's worse than J.B. Shuck's -( that's minus)1.8 bWAR put up in 80 games as an OF replacement in 2016. I'm not sure what anybody's arguing, here. It's like y'all encounter a guy who isn't making the same jokes over and over, and suddenly, I'm in love with Rick Hahn. I'm saying that the Sox seem to be putting out more useful pieces during and after Getz' tenure than they were before. I don't care if somebody doesn't think that a dude coming up and putting 1 WAR in 40-50 games as a replacement isn't "useful". It is, and all of MLB is probably reading this string and laughing at the tortured arguments

So laughable that 4 of the 5 I mentioned were snapped up by other teams when we released them? Leury's the fifth, and he just got signed this off-season. I'm not sure what you're arguing. You're not disproving anything I've said, or anything you're pretending I've said, for that matter.

Please start a list of sure-fire, perennial All-Stars that Getz ruined between 2017 and 2020. Otherwise, he was graduating one-dimensional players at a better rate than previous. And when you compile this list of failure, remember that Getz didn't do drafting, signings, make decisions on whether to promote players who were unready to fill roles that should have been filled with a major league player. My argument is that he graduated the guys he should have, increased the rate of what I'm calling useful spare pieces to the bigs, and probably put a program in place that is moving more multi-dimensional guys at a better clip than the previous people.

And how do I view Hahn? I think he probably started out with good organizational ideas. We'll never know if he was some wonderkid or not, because he wound up in a situation where he and the VP clashed, and cancelled each other out. It certainly looks like after a certain point, he gave up, and did the bare minimum, either as a pouty b****, or just wanting to be let go so he could go find an accounting firm to work at. I'd consider him damaged goods at this point, outed as a quitter, so maybe the rest of baseball sees Hahn exactly as I do. Let me know what the baseball people you know think.

Merry Christmas, everyone. I hope to be arguing next year over which of the 2-bWAR DeJong or 2-bWAR Lopez should go to the bench when Colson Montgomery plays his way out of AAA.

Nobody's arguing that KW/Hahn should get outfield statues for the way they ran the team. And before Getz, there were too many situations where they were plugging in J.B. Shuck for a 3rd of the year in CF. Lenyn Sosa put up post-TDL numbers that looked like an actual baseball player. A guy like Remillard, I believe, is a huge success. Just a fundamentals, toolsy guy who was able to step in for a month and not look way overmatched. I think that's the difference in BG and AG (before and after Getz). All I'm arguing is that he's not the biggest failure on the planet, and yet another clown to come tumbling out of the back of the clown car. I'm pretty psyched. Have a good Christmas.

You seem to have assembled a long list of things that have little to nothing to do with Getz' time as Director of player development. There's a bunch of guys like Nick Delmonico, Leury, Zach Remillard, Seby Zavala, Danny Mendick, Yermin Mercedes that came up through our system, and were actually useful. No, we're not talking about All-Stars, but I do think that during Getz' tenure, they did better with what they were given than previously. And you're talking about 3 seasons until he was promoted out of that role. Did he make changes that stuck? Anecdotally, it seems a bunch of hitting prospects lurched forward this season, and not #1's. Terrell Tatum and about 5 guys from the middle rounds of the 2022 draft all took huge leaps forward. No, they weren't All-Stars on the big club. While his track record might not scream success, it also doesn't scream failure. There's a lot of noise to pick through, while dealing with 2 of the top 3 decision makers of the org. at odds with each other, trading players the other wanted to keep. I think he's taken a few very positive first steps.

Why do "high picks" not count as positives if they were developed and graduated to the majors? Those aren't negative points. Dane Dunning came back from TJS, graduated to the parent club, and looked good enough for Texas to pursue him in trade. That's a win. No, historically, they haven't. Did Getz draft Gonzalez? Did Getz make the picks for the shuttle site players in 2020? 1) I am not arguing that the White Sox are a great drafting and developmental organization, overall. However, Getz seems to have done his job better than previous directors, if you only looking at number of players graduated or total WAR, or whatnot. 2) Developing and graduating talented players doesn't reflect negatively on a player development director. Just the opposite, actually. 3) The Director of Player Development doesn't draft players, and doesn't sign international free agents. They work with the player pool they're given. 4) I would also guess that the continuation of player development at the major league level is handled more by the major league coaching staff. 5) Yes, players go outside the organization to hone their skills. This happens all over the sport. This doesn't mean that every single team sucks at player development. 6) Getz was director for 3 years. The White Sox have gotten better at developing players in that time. Hitting and catcher framing are two areas that stand out. 7) With the chaotic nature of the KW/Hahn regime, I could certainly see different decision makers punting on each other's players, or everyone getting mixed messages. Having one decision maker seems like a winner, here.

My argument is that Getz is not "inexperienced". He's not green. He was player development director for 3 years, then asst. GM for 3 years. I get tired of the "they promoted a guy with no experience" comments. That's simply not true. As director, he graduated more players to mlb roles than previous seasons before his directorship. That's a win. The 7 major pieces they traded for in 2016 all made it to the majors. I'm not sure how that proves he was poor, at best, at his job. Is that all on him? Who knows? But that did happen during his tenure. What is his record as farm director? Here's how Orioles' Brian Graham described his same job: I'm guessing this mostly deals with staffing, facilitating communication systems, probably researching and implementing instruction systems for coaches, while passing on the organization's goals and procedures for training, conditioning and monitoring of players. While they do work with the actual players, they're not teaching curve-balls and running sliding exercises. It's a management roll, and he's implementing the vision of the higher-ups, while probably streamlining, finding bottlenecks, staying state-of-the-art, etc. I also surmise he had a pretty frank assessment of the Sox' development system as run under KW/Hahn. Sure, Getz probably has input. But at best, he's probably proposing system changes, and they're either approved or not. So I don't really think you can call his performance "poor". He put KW/Hahn's vision into practice while also reviewing what worked and what didn't.

Yes he was. 2017-2020. Cease, Giolito, Moncada, Lopez, Kopech, Eloy, Luis Robert - they all came through the minors while Getz was director.

You seem to be having an argument with somebody inside your head, because you're not quoting me. However, he was the director of player development while the recent core all came through the system. So he's not "inexperienced". Does the director of player development generally deliver prospects to the majors who never need any fine tuning, never regress, and always succeed henceforth? Or does the big league club have coaches who work with them going forward? If you want to be angry they didn't go out and get a big name as GM, good for you. Nobody's stopping you. But I'm not going to pretend that dude's an outright failure because you believe that everything good about a player happened elsewhere, and everything bad happened here. I suppose Getz made Kopech into a head case, or broke all of Moncada's conditioning equipment so he couldn't last a full season without injury. And yes, players do go outside their organizations to pitching or hitting labs to fine-tune their game. Mookie Betts and Clayton Kershaw have worked with Driveline on their own. I guess that means that the Dodgers are a massive failure in developing players. Everyone in their organization should be fired.

It's funny when it's inconceivable to somebody that another person can choose to notice any positives about another person's career. Good luck in finding a job, Kenny Williams.

Yes. Why wouldn't I? His job was Director of Player Development. Minor Leaguers were developed. Dylan Cease spent 2 full years in our minor leagues. Can you tell us what part of Cease's abilities they didn't hone? I don't see where I say that KW was the problem. I do think that the executive VP and the GM were not on the same page. Hahn tried to quit on at least one occasion, and was told he would be forced to honor his contract. So Hahn was working in a job he tried to leave. I also don't see what team records have to do with their relationship.

Least talented infield roster? Moncada can't stay healthy, Anderson preceded Getz, and Vaughn was rushed to the bigs. Lenyn Sosa actually looked like a major leaguer after the TDL. Zach Remillard just making the bigs and holding his own for a while is a huge development victory. Other organizations seem to just churn out guys like that who can slot in for a season, play reasonable defense and hit you .250/.300/.375

Who cares? The argument somebody made was that they're tired of guys who look like they just learned the game of baseball. Everybody's whining about Getz' inexperience. Cease, Giolito, Lopez and Kopech all had issues that needed to be ironed out before they became what they were. Are we playing the game of "all their positives were instilled by their previous organizations, and all the negatives were learned here"? Getz ran minor league development, and players came out of that system to be major leaguers in that span of time.

He was director from 2017 to 2020. Looking at the 2018 draft, 9 players from our draft played in the majors. Compare that to seasons before Getz, where you might have the first rounder, and a reliever from the 13th round actually throw a pitch in the bigs.

In the time he was Director of player development, (2017-2020), Luis Robert, Moncada, Eloy, Kopech, Giolito, Lopez and Cease came through their system. The Sox also became somewhat adept at developing catching prospects. Seby Zavala went from a rough defensive liability to a legitimate backup. Is your point that since we're not fielding a team of 26 All-Star caliber players we developed, he sucks at everything and shouldn't be working in baseball?

But it's a bar, nonetheless. My belief is that KW/Hahn had competing philosophies that caused chaos. Hahn may have had some good organizational ideas or instincts, but KW hated his guys, and Hahn eventually gave up (my take). I don't think Nick Hostetler was an idiot. Their drafts were never panned by the experts. They took first rounders in the first round, and picked up guys who were consensus first rounders in subsequent rounds. I can't imagine they regularly drafted guys who were untalented, and then taught them how to suck worse. That's on development. If they just drafted tools and fundamentals guys, they should have had a system spitting out Zach Remillards and Jimmy Lamberts. But they didn't. Nobody can pin point whether amateur scouting sucks, international scouting sucks, or player development sucks. Maybe that's a result of nobody having defined responsibilities for implementing an actual program. Some people would say "it all sucks, fire everybody". I guess that's why a guy putting order to an organization doesn't register as a positive with them. I have no idea if Chris Getz is a Kellogg Business school darling who is going to set the organization straight. But any order is a step in the right direction. Maybe JR shuffles off in a couple, the team sells, and there's at least a semblance of order for the new guy to work with. In which case, I don't get the complaints about Getz being inexperienced. It either matters that he's run a couple of front offices previous to this one, or it doesn't. I've worked for guys who embrace the chaos, then when somebody comes along who can alphabetize the files, they get bored and mess it all up, again by switching jobs on everyone. Maybe that's what Reinsdorf is, and it works for him in certain ways. But that's why Getz deserves the benefit of the doubt. One voice vs. two. Bringing in outside voices rather than guys from within. He's already doing things everybody was screaming for.

This is probably the funniest part of all these glum rants. Chris Getz has pretty much spent his life in baseball. He's worked in a front office for 9 years. I think it should be a rule that anybody who complains that Chris Getz has no experience to run a front office should also lay out their own baseball resume.

The A's model seems to be lose for 4-5 seasons, win for 2. Starting in 2008, the Rays had 6 winning, 4 losing, and are on 6 winning, again.