WestEddy

Disaster? Moncada clocked in right under an average major leaguer in WAR. So he came out of the minors, and he stepped into a major league roll, and almost performed like an average major leaguer. You are right. That is a total failure on the part of minor league development. He should have hit the league, put up 6 WAR, and only got better from there. Dude got COVID, then had lingering bad back injuries. After the TDL this last season, Moncada OPSed .825 from 8/1 on. Sounds like Chris Getz sat him down on 7/31, and explained how to be the great player that he forgot to be since he left Getz's tutelage. You guys are beginning to convince me that Chris Getz was the greatest GM hire in the history of the game. Many will lose their jobs for not grabbing him up sooner.

Great. Hey, can you point out a Minor League Development guy who walked into an organization, flipped a switch and started spitting out All-Stars? Or is it a multi-year process of changing processes, one by one, swapping out vendors, instilling new programs, getting buy-in, and working to get problem dudes moved out? Y'all keep pointing to a 101 loss season, and argue that means every single person in the organization had taken an oath to make everything suck. I'm at least offering arguments.

Oh, so then, he gets to claim Colson Montgomery (who was seen as a reach when drafted), Noah Shultz (who the jury was still out on)? Then Chris Getz looks like a pretty damn good Director of Player Development to me. These Brian Ramos and Wilfred Veras guys? 2 more feathers. Terrell Tatum, Tim Elko, Jacob Burke, Michael Camilletti, Brooks Baldwin and Michael Turner all took big leaps forward this season. All were mid-late round picks. You're starting to convince me that Chris Getz is the greatest Minor League development guy in baseball. I'm even more psyched, now.

Yoan Moncada has had 4 and 5 WAR seasons in the bigs. Eloy can't stay healthy. Player development did their job, and delivered them to the bigs where they displayed some of the immense prospect. The pro coaching and training staffs then proceeded to drop the ball. Y'all are just being argumentative at this point. I could say that the sun rises in the East, and all of your heads would explode, because dude who won't laugh at our Chris Getz put-downs can't possibly be right about a single point. I'm not sure what's so hard to admit about: "Chris Getz graduated the good talent he was given to work with". Everybody has to throw in these meaningless caveats that don't even apply. Beyond that, he was given dudes who were only available because of bad attitudes, or track records, and were turned into replacement players who could sub in for 2 months and hold their own. Were they sure-fire Hall-of-Famers that Getz stuck with a syringe of "suck-at-baseball" juice on the sly? If you really believe that Nicky Delmonico was going to be a 40 HR a year guy, prove it. First rounders being rushed to the bigs, or guys who just can't take 3 steps without pulling every muscle on their skeleton aren't on the Director of Player Development.

I keep wondering how all y'all keep forgetting to post this list of amazing prospect talent the White Sox had, and Chris Getz taught them all how to suck. There are a lot of MLB front office personnel who are with the only organization who would offer them that position. Tell me, when you look for a job, and you're offered a job, do you hold off on accepting that job until you get multiple offers, just to prove that you're a great job prospect? Where do all these insane rules come from? The guy was an Asst GM, then was promoted to GM. I've said this many times in these strings, but I get that y'all are unhappy that Reinsdorf said some BS, then just promoted somebody. Everybody is bending themselves into pretzel shapes to try to portray Chris Getz as the architect of 15+ years of sucking. The actual feathers in Getz's cap I listed (Eloy, Yoan, Gio, Cease, Robert), everybody says don't count because everything good about them happened outside of our organization, and everything bad happened because Chris Getz made them cry, or something.

So we should be happy with a guy who is defining roles, introducing accountability, and throwing some order into an organization built on chaos. If there's no way to objectively PROVE anything, then it's silly for the people here to declare that because of a list of things that had nothing to do with Getz' management of player development, he was poor at his job. Tell you what. If Getz mistakenly trades Colson Montgomery for the 2023 equivalent of James Shields, I'll say he's bad at his job. But it just gets tiresome, where every single comment string everywhere on the internet has to get clobbered with "Getz is inexperienced", and "he sucks because he graduated all of the top prospects to the major leagues".

Obviously, coming from the Astros, and getting Soroka from the Braves, they'll teach the team how to win.

...And there it is.

Dude, a small bunch of guys accusing me of sticking up for Hahn, or saying that Getz was a great pick, or that Getz ruined a bunch of guys he had nothing to do with isn't "overwhelming evidence". Present some overwhelming evidence, and I'll deal with it.

Now you're just being silly. Nobody has disproven my assertion that Getz isn't "inexperienced", coming into the GM role, and I haven't been given any evidence that he was anything less than an average director of player development in his 3 years in that role. Graduating top prospects isn't a negative in this case. Joke all you want, it's all you really have, right now.

You still haven't posted any evidence to disprove my stated point. You haven't dug at all. KW/Hahn rushed the first rounders, and I'm not sure if Hostetler was a crappy director of scouting, or if KW/JR just bum rushed the war room and started throwing darts. But you haven't even made a point, yet.

He was promoted out of the role in 2020 to Asst. GM. Seby Zavala was developed into a plus defensive catcher from a bat first late-rounder.

Hasn't Vera been battling injuries during his time with the Sox? It looks like Vera's longest stretch at any level was 24 innings spread over 8 starts at Kannapolis last year. Are you claiming that Getz somehow hurt him after leaving the Player Development position? It sounds like you're saying Chris Getz was an average Director of Player Development. I've made a few lists of players that came up under Getz. Again, I'm asking for a list of hot prospects that failed under Getz during his tenure. not a list of guys from 2012 to the present who were disappointing.

No, and that's not even the argument I'm making. I'm not even sure what you're doing at this point. Maybe you should read up-string, and argue the actual points I've made, instead of assigning me blame for what the voices in your head are saying. Let me catch you up: My argument is that while director of player development, he graduated the players he should have, and increased the rate of players who could sub in for 50 games and provide value. I don't really care that you hate Rick Hahn, or Jerry Reinsdorf, or pretend that all front offices spend their days sitting around and laughing at baseball players.

Let me know where I've argued that. Nicky Delmonico put out a pretty useful 1.4 bWAR in 43 games in 2017. The league adjusted to him, and he never really recovered. Also, please tell me how that's worse than J.B. Shuck's -( that's minus)1.8 bWAR put up in 80 games as an OF replacement in 2016. I'm not sure what anybody's arguing, here. It's like y'all encounter a guy who isn't making the same jokes over and over, and suddenly, I'm in love with Rick Hahn. I'm saying that the Sox seem to be putting out more useful pieces during and after Getz' tenure than they were before. I don't care if somebody doesn't think that a dude coming up and putting 1 WAR in 40-50 games as a replacement isn't "useful". It is, and all of MLB is probably reading this string and laughing at the tortured arguments

So laughable that 4 of the 5 I mentioned were snapped up by other teams when we released them? Leury's the fifth, and he just got signed this off-season. I'm not sure what you're arguing. You're not disproving anything I've said, or anything you're pretending I've said, for that matter.

Please start a list of sure-fire, perennial All-Stars that Getz ruined between 2017 and 2020. Otherwise, he was graduating one-dimensional players at a better rate than previous. And when you compile this list of failure, remember that Getz didn't do drafting, signings, make decisions on whether to promote players who were unready to fill roles that should have been filled with a major league player. My argument is that he graduated the guys he should have, increased the rate of what I'm calling useful spare pieces to the bigs, and probably put a program in place that is moving more multi-dimensional guys at a better clip than the previous people.

And how do I view Hahn? I think he probably started out with good organizational ideas. We'll never know if he was some wonderkid or not, because he wound up in a situation where he and the VP clashed, and cancelled each other out. It certainly looks like after a certain point, he gave up, and did the bare minimum, either as a pouty b****, or just wanting to be let go so he could go find an accounting firm to work at. I'd consider him damaged goods at this point, outed as a quitter, so maybe the rest of baseball sees Hahn exactly as I do. Let me know what the baseball people you know think.

Merry Christmas, everyone. I hope to be arguing next year over which of the 2-bWAR DeJong or 2-bWAR Lopez should go to the bench when Colson Montgomery plays his way out of AAA.

Nobody's arguing that KW/Hahn should get outfield statues for the way they ran the team. And before Getz, there were too many situations where they were plugging in J.B. Shuck for a 3rd of the year in CF. Lenyn Sosa put up post-TDL numbers that looked like an actual baseball player. A guy like Remillard, I believe, is a huge success. Just a fundamentals, toolsy guy who was able to step in for a month and not look way overmatched. I think that's the difference in BG and AG (before and after Getz). All I'm arguing is that he's not the biggest failure on the planet, and yet another clown to come tumbling out of the back of the clown car. I'm pretty psyched. Have a good Christmas.

You seem to have assembled a long list of things that have little to nothing to do with Getz' time as Director of player development. There's a bunch of guys like Nick Delmonico, Leury, Zach Remillard, Seby Zavala, Danny Mendick, Yermin Mercedes that came up through our system, and were actually useful. No, we're not talking about All-Stars, but I do think that during Getz' tenure, they did better with what they were given than previously. And you're talking about 3 seasons until he was promoted out of that role. Did he make changes that stuck? Anecdotally, it seems a bunch of hitting prospects lurched forward this season, and not #1's. Terrell Tatum and about 5 guys from the middle rounds of the 2022 draft all took huge leaps forward. No, they weren't All-Stars on the big club. While his track record might not scream success, it also doesn't scream failure. There's a lot of noise to pick through, while dealing with 2 of the top 3 decision makers of the org. at odds with each other, trading players the other wanted to keep. I think he's taken a few very positive first steps.

Why do "high picks" not count as positives if they were developed and graduated to the majors? Those aren't negative points. Dane Dunning came back from TJS, graduated to the parent club, and looked good enough for Texas to pursue him in trade. That's a win. No, historically, they haven't. Did Getz draft Gonzalez? Did Getz make the picks for the shuttle site players in 2020? 1) I am not arguing that the White Sox are a great drafting and developmental organization, overall. However, Getz seems to have done his job better than previous directors, if you only looking at number of players graduated or total WAR, or whatnot. 2) Developing and graduating talented players doesn't reflect negatively on a player development director. Just the opposite, actually. 3) The Director of Player Development doesn't draft players, and doesn't sign international free agents. They work with the player pool they're given. 4) I would also guess that the continuation of player development at the major league level is handled more by the major league coaching staff. 5) Yes, players go outside the organization to hone their skills. This happens all over the sport. This doesn't mean that every single team sucks at player development. 6) Getz was director for 3 years. The White Sox have gotten better at developing players in that time. Hitting and catcher framing are two areas that stand out. 7) With the chaotic nature of the KW/Hahn regime, I could certainly see different decision makers punting on each other's players, or everyone getting mixed messages. Having one decision maker seems like a winner, here.

My argument is that Getz is not "inexperienced". He's not green. He was player development director for 3 years, then asst. GM for 3 years. I get tired of the "they promoted a guy with no experience" comments. That's simply not true. As director, he graduated more players to mlb roles than previous seasons before his directorship. That's a win. The 7 major pieces they traded for in 2016 all made it to the majors. I'm not sure how that proves he was poor, at best, at his job. Is that all on him? Who knows? But that did happen during his tenure. What is his record as farm director? Here's how Orioles' Brian Graham described his same job: I'm guessing this mostly deals with staffing, facilitating communication systems, probably researching and implementing instruction systems for coaches, while passing on the organization's goals and procedures for training, conditioning and monitoring of players. While they do work with the actual players, they're not teaching curve-balls and running sliding exercises. It's a management roll, and he's implementing the vision of the higher-ups, while probably streamlining, finding bottlenecks, staying state-of-the-art, etc. I also surmise he had a pretty frank assessment of the Sox' development system as run under KW/Hahn. Sure, Getz probably has input. But at best, he's probably proposing system changes, and they're either approved or not. So I don't really think you can call his performance "poor". He put KW/Hahn's vision into practice while also reviewing what worked and what didn't.

Yes he was. 2017-2020. Cease, Giolito, Moncada, Lopez, Kopech, Eloy, Luis Robert - they all came through the minors while Getz was director.

You seem to be having an argument with somebody inside your head, because you're not quoting me. However, he was the director of player development while the recent core all came through the system. So he's not "inexperienced". Does the director of player development generally deliver prospects to the majors who never need any fine tuning, never regress, and always succeed henceforth? Or does the big league club have coaches who work with them going forward? If you want to be angry they didn't go out and get a big name as GM, good for you. Nobody's stopping you. But I'm not going to pretend that dude's an outright failure because you believe that everything good about a player happened elsewhere, and everything bad happened here. I suppose Getz made Kopech into a head case, or broke all of Moncada's conditioning equipment so he couldn't last a full season without injury. And yes, players do go outside their organizations to pitching or hitting labs to fine-tune their game. Mookie Betts and Clayton Kershaw have worked with Driveline on their own. I guess that means that the Dodgers are a massive failure in developing players. Everyone in their organization should be fired.