WestEddy

https://x.com/CST_soxvan/status/1793028693888991238

https://x.com/CST_soxvan/status/1793029994463027278

https://x.com/CST_soxvan/status/1793029599053410630

Trade Rumors chat: Ellis 1:52 What kind of return can Erick Fedde net assuming he's still pitching similarly to how he has been to start the year? Steve Adams 1:56 Darragh and I talked about this on a recent episode of the podcast. Some recent examples of trades of starters with 1.5 years left include Jose Berrios, Jose Castillo and Tyler Mahle. All of those guys netted one near-MLB-ready top-100 prospect (Austin Martin, Noelvi Marte, Spencer Steer) and some quality secondary pieces. I don't think Fedde will be quite that much because of the lack of track record, but a muted version of those packages seems reasonable enough. He's one of the more interesting arms out there and I feel like he's already done enough to command one good 50-FV type prospect.

Maybe they're playing Benintendi to prove to JR or even to 10-D that he's untenable in this condition. JR to eat the salary, or 10-D to take a trip to the minors to fix himself.

Kopech's not really a lock down closer, yet. The FutureSox guys were talking about how teams just love guys with "stuff". And even though he still walks a lot of batters, front offices have the ego to believe they could fix a guy throwing 102. But I don't think a contender would want to make him their closer addition at the deadline if he stays like he is now. They'd want some time to "fix" him. I think Fedde only has #3 stuff, tops, and teams might want to wait longer to see if they want to pick up that extra rotation arm. Even though he has good numbers, I think he's a fallback option. And the whole starting pitcher market hasn't even coalesced, yet. All that being said, Kopech goes earlier for teams to work with him. Fedde goes later for teams to make sure he's for real, and he's really only a solid fall-back option, not a new staff ace.

Because there is no stat that measures "panic". I do not accept that roster churn, alone, represents panic. Panic would be trading Noah Schultz and Brooks Baldwin for Frankie Montas to shore up the pitching staff. Cycling Kevin Pillar through, no matter how long he played, is baseball business as usual. Holiday played 10 games. All starts. Ramos played in 10 games, started 9. Sosa played 12, started 9. Sosa has had 240 PAs at the major league level. He was pressing so hard, he was making basic mistakes. He's not a "prospect" anymore, so I see no problem with moving him up and down. His ceiling is a utility infielder, at this point. Fletcher started 18 of the 20 games in which he appeared. He was pressing, couldn't get started, offensively, and was making basic defensive mistakes. They gave him a timeout. None of this is data, or is compared to anything. Fletcher, Lee, Ramos, Shewmake, Colas, Sosa and Julks are what I would consider the "rookies" hitting the roster. Fletcher, Lee, Ramos, Sosa and Shewmake all got long enough looks. Lee and Ramos had success, and their looks continue. Colas is considered to not be ready. Sosa and Shewmake profile as utility infielders. I'm not sure what they're doing with Fletcher, now. I could make something up for you, but I'm not concerned. Shewmake started 21 of the 29 games in which he appeared. Except for Colas, Julks (who looks like he'll get a long look), and Ramos (who was injured), everybody got longer looks than Jackson. So the answer to your implied question is 1. We've blown through one guy with a shorter intentional look than Holliday, and that's Colas. Again, you ignore the issue that the Sox were losing at a pace where every loss was a national news story. I believe that striking out 4 times and logging 2 errors every night on a team that is being covered like the Yankees isn't beneficial, and that had to be fixed. No, win-loss record doesn't matter. Losing at that rate does. Also, Baltimore has been building a team for 7 years. They should have a more stable roster. This is year Zero of the rebuild for the Sox. We should have more flux. The fact that you won't concede any point means we're still playing "you can't convince me". Show me one statistic that is generally agreed to measure "panic". There are none. This entire conversation is subjective on both our parts. You think I haven't proven anything, and I think you haven't proven anything.

Well, thank you for at least acknowledging that example. I would say that the White Sox found themselves in a situation where they really had to stop the bleeding in order for their rookies to play in obscurity. It doesn't help when NBC is breaking into American Ninja Warrior to give an update on Sosa's run-down gaffe. Fletcher got a nice long audition before he was sent down.

Nobody disagrees with you that Grifol is a bibbledy-babbledy idiot. Any team would give a lot of rope to see if there's anything there with a former #4 overall pick. And if Sheets is anything like the flashes he's shown (gap power, lefty bench bat), there's value in that. Daniel Vogelbach exists.

As mealy-mouthed as Grifol is, even about simple things like walking outside and looking at the eclipse, he's been very unambiguous about Ramos getting his playing time back when he returns. Sosa has had 250 PAs in the majors. He's burned through his chances. Fletcher seems to be in the dog house, or they're making a decision on Sheets. They seem to indicate that they don't think Colas is ready. I don't disagree. He's certainly not tearing up the level where he plays in a hitters' paradise. Cannon and Nastrini looked overmatched after their first starts.

I've given you examples of how they're doing just that with Benintendi, Vaughn, Sheets, Eloy, Flexen and even Soroka. Here's the game we're playing. It's "you can't convince me". But the object of the game isn't whether I can put forward a good argument or not, it's whether you say yes or no. And if you just keep saying no, you win. I've given you several arguments you won't acknowledge, like the Orioles jettisoning Jackson Holliday quickly. Teams do that. Bring up a guy, see he's overmatched, drop him back down to work on the holes that major leaguers exposed in his game. There's really no need for him to strike out 4 times a game for 8 weeks to get comfortable. You think Getz is "panicking". I think he's being proactive, churning through lesser roster options to find workable pieces. Nobody thought that Crochet, Fedde, Flexen, and Soroka would each start 33 games. Isn't Memorial Day a general assessment point? That's 7 days away.

It's completely true. Look it up at Fangraphs. Pham is at -0.1, defensively. The other 3 are +1 or higher on their ratings, which is above average.

I'm all about miracles. The Padres have made the most noise in their current "window", and haven't won much of anything. They no longer have the benefit of the doubt with me.

What's best for the franchise, long term, is figuring out the assets they have on the major league team who could either be long term answers, or trade bait. If you know which year the Sox will win their next Championship, please let us know. If you don't, that qualifier is meaningless.

Well, great. Every game they fail is one game closer to the end of their White Sox careers.

There's totally a plan. They don't play b-squad games during the season. There's only so many ABs and innings during the week. The priorities seem to be: 1) figure out the vets on the 26-man. Give them the ABs/innings to make a determination on trade/extend/DFA. 2) if a rookie catches on, give him playing time 3) if a rookie struggles, get them experience at the major or minor leagues, depending on the problem And really. If I had an employee who clutched onto a single axiom, and couldn't adjust to new wrinkles that came along, he'd be out the door pretty quick. Oh, I also liked roster churn when I managed a department. It worked quite well. As is it for Getz, too.

With Mendick, DeJong and Lopez/Remy at 3B/SS/2B, and Pham in CF, half of your team is average or better. Lee is very good, defensively, when he plays half the games. So I guess 9/16 of the starting 8 are average or better, defensively. Since the win-loss doesn't matter, they're using playing time to figure out Sheets and Vaughn, which seems to be what you're calling for. Benintendi - I guess they want to give him time to get out of his fielding and hitting slumps, either to eat his contract and trade him, get some game value from him, or prove to JR he's a bad signing so they can DFA him.

And really, you're using the very thing you say you want as evidence of Getz messing up. Vaughn and Sheets are still youngish. While neither will be playing on the next Championship team (which is a dumb measure, anyway), they're being allowed the opportunity to play through slumps and defensive adversity to give them a chance to get comfortable. I think it's reasonable to give a former 1st and 2nd rounder a little more leeway to find themselves than Lenyn Sosa, who has shown nothing in 250 PAs in the majors.

The injury in CF forced a move of our RF into CF, where he was more exposed, defensively, and then to play a worse RF in RF. I don't like Sheets in RF, either, but he had a hot bat, and with management wanting to keep Benny, Vaughn and Eloy getting at-bats, probably to break them out of their slumps so they could trade them (or just get offense, in Benny's case), RF is the only option. DeJong and Lopez are above average, defensively. Vaughn, Sheets and Benintendi suck. Pham is average in CF. I don't like the Maldonado signing, either. I suppose they feel his game calling and presence outweigh the other aspects of his game. I would be happy with a Maldonado DFA tomorrow. Lee is catching half of the games, now, so that's something. I don't care if what's happening with the rotation is planned or not. The "plan" was to see if Crochet, Fedde, Flexen and Soroka could be starting pitchers in MLB. That plan was a success. The "plan" also seemed to be to get place-holders eating innings while the prospects progressed. He did that. I'll rely on people who develop prospects for an opinion on the best way to get prospects acclimated to the majors. If you want rookies to get "comfortable" in the majors, it's probably good for their base-running error to not open the top of every hour on CNN the next 24 hours because they're a historically bad team. The major leagues is about guys being able to perform. If they're not executing their pitches, or striking out 1/3 of their PAs, they may not get too much time to get comfortable. Lenyn Sosa isn't the future of this franchise. I'm not worried about him getting yanked after 40 PAs. As far as "dumping as much of the roster they could", they've cut or traded 6 older vets who have been on the parent club. I understand your difficult situation, trying to argue something that is a huge positive (taking non-performing players off the 26-man roster) as grossly negative, in a weird "panic" framing. The roster churning is a good thing. Yes, I think he had to stop the bleeding. I'm not sure why Brad Keller needs to keep pitching on a 14-34 team, just for continuity's sake. One of Nastrini, Cannon or Thorpe may get a start this week. If roster churn makes you queasy, then buckle in, because there's going to be a lot more. And it will all be good.

Garrett Whitlock probably out for season. https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2024/05/garrett-whitlock-diagnosed-with-ligament-tear-in-elbow.html

defense DeJong and Lopez lead the team in defense, last time I checked. Win. Robert and Moncada could have been expected to extend their good defense. Meh. Vaughn and Benintendi are not good. Vaughn - they probably are going to give him the entire season to show if he's a piece because of his 1st round status. Benny - they're paying him, so they're going to play him. Fletcher seemed exposed in CF. They're just filling holes in the outfield, right now. Maybe Fletcher will start getting a shot again. Maybe since DeLoach is starting to hit, he's next. rotation They had a plan, and they seem to be sticking to it, making adjustments on the fly, either of plugging in long men after Flexen/Soroka, or parking them in the bullpen for a rest or rework. Every team brings up prospects, sees them get overmatched, then sends them back. Jackson Holliday is the main one you keep ignoring. The gap is so huge that you can't "know" if a player is ready for that jump. injury They had 3 huge injuries. I'm using the injuries and slumps to explain the heightened concern for a record setting environment of futility for which that they had to find some balance, not the roster churn, which I don't even care about, and don't see that as any cause of concern. I've even stated that I like the attitude of grabbing guys off of waivers, checking them out in game settings, and moving on if they don't look like something that would work. The more you bring up churn, the more I agree with you that he does a lot of that, and I say it's a positive. prospects The great unknown is the jump between AAA and the majors. Clocks will be starting for a bunch of guys this year. All that matters is that they retain the extra year, and in the case of Monty, keep him from super-2 status. I can argue a quick trip to the majors and back is good for a prospect to see how fast the pro game is, what they need to work on, and an incentive to get back. They had to stop the bleeding on the "historical bad start" story. Sosa wasn't going to do that. I'm guessing they do have a glimmer of hope for Colas, and really want him to be best equipped when they promote him next time. maldonado I didn't like the signing, either. I think they should DFA him and activate anybody. Chuckie Robinson works for me. You know I love the roster churn.

We have 3 Shortstops at AA and AAA. Two of them have 1st round pedigree. We have a 3B getting an extended audition this year. 2 catchers who look like they can field and hit. We have at least 3 OFs at AA, one of whom just hits, and the other two who look, at least, like 4th OFs. They'll get a good return for Robert. They might get a return of projectable guys who will be in a Rule 5 roster crunch this December (or something that makes them less than top 100 prospects not on a 40-man, yet, for a couple of years) for Fedde, Flexen, Pham and others. Maybe I'm just not considering what other people are talking about. I think we'll have a competitive club in 3-4 seasons. They're looking for the dominant, sure-fire, 3 world series championship core.

First of all, we're starting from a point where neither of us know anything about the inner workings of the Sox' FO, or Getz's thoughts. With that in mind, I say that they wanted to send Fletcher down to keep him getting reps and more importantly, away from the record setting parent club. They don't think Colas is ready for a full time audition, yet (the very type of decision making you're calling for), so they activated Ortega. The fact that they let Horn go means, to me, that they were done with Thompson, and took a flyer on Horn for their troubles. Yes, they knew about Horn. Maybe they tried to sneak him through waivers, or Bannister (who didn't have deep, previous knowledge of Horn) cut bait on him. This is all a lot of thought, already, for a couple of guys who will get an MLB.com write-up in about 5 years about how they persevered through 5 organizations, and now, they're finally having some success as a long man for a last place club. I don't see how having a plan, seeing the disastrous consequences of that plan playing out, then trying to adjust on the fly is panicking, or dumping one's plan. Seeing as they had zero (0) rotation pieces entering this season, and imagining the restraints on payroll Getz was dealt, he and Bannister worked out a plan to identify guys who are rehabbing, or trying to rediscover recent success, put a more competent defense behind them, give them a good game-calling catcher, and run with that, giving the prospects more time to develop. They're still running with Crochet, Fedde, and Flexen. Soroka got the Flexen treatment. Clevinger and Keller are innings. They tried Nastrini and Cannon, maybe even to discover what non-prospect hitters at AAA couldn't expose, and now they're working on their games. I don't see this as some huge divergence. If they traded Nastrini and Cannon for guys who could cover 5+ innings, that would be panic. Add to that, 3 starters went down with injury, and another 5 started out in extended catastrophic slump. I think if Chris Getz could predict batting slumps and injuries, he wouldn't be a GM. He'd be sitting on a mountain in Tibet, giving life advice to those who could reach him.

Then he's traded at that deadline for a package.