SoCalChiSox

Come on fathom give us like some tasty morsels on something positive re Cease or Eloy...

Were gonna win like 55 games and be stuck with the No. 10 pick....lulz

So it will be Stassi/Maldonado basically splitting the time then? I'm assuming it's like a super cheap deal. Sure would like to hear they are making some headway on moving Cease and Eloy for some real pieces.

Why would we be in on the reliever market? Even if Santos is out, you've got Crochet, Leasure, and there's several AAA/AAAA scrubs that can fill out the pen. I'm not sure why we are spending money on that.

I realize why GMs have to really exhaust and contemplate the cost/benefit analysis of every alternative and also utilize whatever perceived leverage they might have, including negotiating thru the media and trying to wait the other side out. As fans though, I suspect you guys are in the same boat as we are: dying for any kind of significant move to address the teams needs. We've been arguing here about Cease's value internally for months with the same people and rehashing the same s%*# over and over. I feel if you were the Orioles GM and we locked you in a room with @Chicago White Sox we could probably have a reasonable and mutually beneficial deal done in about 10 minutes that both fanbases would be reasonably happy with rather than this 3 month Mexican standoff. And I suspect most of those 10 minutes would be you guys haggling over the third piece. @Chicago White Sox would bring in a few plates of really really hot Nashville Hot Chicken and he'd say ok, i got a couple gallons of ice cold milk waiting outside to wash it down with and some brownies too.... just say OK to Povich as the third piece...lol.

Yeah need Snell and Montgomery to sign ASAP.

I think Elias is going to try all reasonable alternatives first before giving up young savages. First they'll try to move existing OFers that are in arbitration. When that fails to return meaningful pitching, he'll try packaging said players with lower level prospects, then if that doesn't work, he will look at Burnes who will be cheaper, but if MIL isn't going to move him or if the market bids are too high and he doesn't want to go there for only 1 year of control, he will return back to Cease in a few weeks. I'd be very surprised by an "early" deal with BAL (even though I'd love to see it) unless Getz gets a very good offer from someone desperate right now and basically tells other people you've got 24 hours to top this or I'm doing the deal.

I think the problem I have with this idea if in fact it's Getz plan is that once again the FO (like it's predecessor) somehow believes they can outsmart everyone through smoke, mirrors and deception when in fact a) they've never outsmarted anyone and b) people will be able to plainly see through even basic analytic data (BABIP, FIP etc) that these pitchers are being aided by superior defense and they would be trading for pyrite rather than gold. I mean even teams that don't have floors and floors of eggheads constantly crunching numbers will be able to see this, so if this is really their plan, Getz is gravely mistaken.

Welcome to the board, Frobby. I think if BAL offered one Cowser/Hjerstad plus one of Ortiz/Norby, then IMO a deal would be likely. It doesnt seem like your GM is willing to do that tho. I would like someone like Povich as the third piece and our GM will likely want pitching somewhere in the deal. If push comes to shove and the parties are only arguing about a third piece that is not a Top 100 player I can't imagine that would kill a deal unless some other team has a mega offer out there. Honestly if Chicago is willing to forego Holliday/Mayo/Basallo and I think we are willing to do that, BAL needs to suck it up and accept Cowser/Hjerstad, Norby/Ortiz and Povich as the package. There is going to be a significant market for Cease...warts and all...given the two years of control, limited salary and good durability. You have to give something to get something. I agree that this may likely drag out till late January or even right before pitchers and catchers report. As much as us fans would like a deal done quickly because we are bored as hell and would like to get excited about new acquisitions, its going to be a staredown for awhile I suspect.

Because the same owner is pulling the strings of both and the same owner is crafty enough to hire only people who are otherwise unhireable in like positions so the GM never has any leverage to push back on what's dictated to them even if its stupid because they have nowhere else to go. We've dealt with and suffered through the agony of this same basic power dynamic forever. As a physician, you of all people should understand the danger in reopening old wounds...

That's pretty cool. "You're gonna love Joe Kelly" /sorry I couldn't resist

When we see alot of stuff that's objectively positive then people will start to be positive. We have went thru awful period after awful period with garbage ownership, incompetent FOs and a tone deaf arrogant PR department that evidently is so lacking in self awareness that it thinks its a good idea to constantly poke sticks into the eyes of its fans. If you want people to be positive dont put lipstick on a pig and call it a supermodel. IDGAF about Baghdad Scott Merkin or other state media's garbage puff pieces.

And what philosophy is that Harold? KC Royals style speed, defense athleticism small ball and doing everything on the cheap? Gutting data and analytics and hiring a bunch of crusty 70 year old scouts scratching their balls in the bleachers and claiming they "heard it" like in Trouble with the Curve? And where are the savages I was promised Harold?

That doesn't get them the pitching they need tho. No one is trading anything of value at the SP position for Santander or Hays. Both are projected around 2 WAR, one of them is actually gonna prolly earn around 12m in 24 in arb so there's little SV to use as a trade chip.

So we didn't even ask for Jorge like Bruce said? I thought Jorge and Stafura were the other pieces not just Stafura FML. Jimmy give us a morsel or two.

I am slow but let me see if I comprehend this right. Getz has a jewel everyone wants. He proceeds to artificially limit himself to pitching because the owner is a cheapskate and because they are too stupid and/or chickenshit to understand that RF/2B/LHS is a non negotiable must. And then after announcing his undying love for pitching he can't even pry both AJSS and Waldrep out of the deal with a desperate ATL club whose only chance to stop the LAD in the playoffs is to make this deal so they can start a stud in every playoff game. Do I have that right?

I thought Heyman was just name dropping them yesterday when talking about Cease's market starting to heat up? If we are stuck with ATL we will be truly fucked. I can't even fucking get a LH bat as a third piece to get excited about. They won't even give us that.

Yep....thats a very good summary of their mindset. f*** this team and f*** their hatred for left handed savagery.

Yeah I've pretty much resigned myself to it at this point everytime I see this ATL bullshit and all this pitching crap. Anyway, I'm actually kind of sort of hopeful about CIN....the more I read about Carlos Jorge I think it's possible he could be a LHS even though he seems to be a third piece. Fangraphs projects him as 50 hit/60 power/55 speed/45 field which is great for a LH 2B. If that's accurate it's similar to Busch offensively but ofcourse with a playable glove at 2B more speed and much much younger. That would be a hell of a third piece along with Lowder and Petty. If they can get him in the CIN deal I'd be excited about that. I really wanted a BAL deal sooooooo bad tho. We could address RF and 2B in one deal and prolly get a solid 4 in Povich as the third piece. It made too much sense so ofcourse Getz doesn't want it.

LHS is a must indeed.

It's unhealthy because getting the 7th pitcher shouldn't be higher on the priority list than getting the 1st or 2nd positional player. When you've added 6 pitchers already and presumably paid through the nose to pry a pitching guru away from a respected team, some us would like to think that it's high time the utter lack of savagery is addressed.

We don't know what they asked for at the deadline tho. If they were asking for Holliday then yeah that wasn't going to happen. But we don't know the prior ask and it was a prior FO. But macsandz reported the current ask is Cowser and Norby plus something else. I do not know what the something else is but I'm operating on the assumption it's a non Top 100 piece. Since Getz has an unhealthy obsession with pitching let's assume it's Povich. This is not a diamond price. Its an elevated price but imo well within what the market should bear in a sellers market, one top 50, one bottom 50 and something else that's useful. It's a price that doesn't ask BAL to give up any of their top 3 studs and they are more than fine in the OF. When you say "it's what has happened in the offseason so far" I think you are again assuming everything is static. As supply dwindles and people see what outrageous prices there are (cash wise or prospect wise) for pitching then resistance will buckle because there's alot of people trying to win but not alot of pitching. I dont think we can infer the lack of deal to date means we overestimated the market, I think the lack of deal means Getz is willing to wait until supply completely thins out to force people to act. It doesn't have to be BAL, but I'm confident someone will act.

But Balta the market doesn't operate in the abstract. When someone says worth it...its not in a vacuum. If there's like 1-2 guys out there that are elite and totally unattainable for 90% of the league and then 4 guys who are somwhere between pretty good and abovr average but have some issue and there's a dozen teams that really really need SP and are actively trying to win, then someone necessarily will pay a diamond's price for a sapphire because that's how markets work. There's no vacuum. Do you agree that supply of cost controlled decent to quality SP on the trade market is slim? If so, then why wouldn't demand respond in kind? There's no such thing as worth it or not worth it divorced from that. And BTW, you were wrong on Glasnow. He fetched a Top 100 equivalent + another useful piece and the Rays forced LAD to ALSO eat a bad contract too. And no, the LAD getting an extension out of it doesn't make it distinguishable. Very few people think Glasnows deal adds SV at that price.

It doesn't accomplish dick for us. CIN isn't going to allow him to just be a throw in. They will use that to lower the prospect price and we don't need another average right handed player that will make no meaningful difference in the coming two year dumpster fire in 24 and 25. The Mods should block out the phrase Jonathan India since it's arguably worse than a four letter word.

Unless there's a sale, the Orioles window with this particular group of kids isn't that long. Once the high end guys get to arbitration there's no way they can keep these guys without ballooning their budget and their owner is worse than JR.