SoCalChiSox

We don't know what they asked for at the deadline tho. If they were asking for Holliday then yeah that wasn't going to happen. But we don't know the prior ask and it was a prior FO. But macsandz reported the current ask is Cowser and Norby plus something else. I do not know what the something else is but I'm operating on the assumption it's a non Top 100 piece. Since Getz has an unhealthy obsession with pitching let's assume it's Povich. This is not a diamond price. Its an elevated price but imo well within what the market should bear in a sellers market, one top 50, one bottom 50 and something else that's useful. It's a price that doesn't ask BAL to give up any of their top 3 studs and they are more than fine in the OF. When you say "it's what has happened in the offseason so far" I think you are again assuming everything is static. As supply dwindles and people see what outrageous prices there are (cash wise or prospect wise) for pitching then resistance will buckle because there's alot of people trying to win but not alot of pitching. I dont think we can infer the lack of deal to date means we overestimated the market, I think the lack of deal means Getz is willing to wait until supply completely thins out to force people to act. It doesn't have to be BAL, but I'm confident someone will act.

But Balta the market doesn't operate in the abstract. When someone says worth it...its not in a vacuum. If there's like 1-2 guys out there that are elite and totally unattainable for 90% of the league and then 4 guys who are somwhere between pretty good and abovr average but have some issue and there's a dozen teams that really really need SP and are actively trying to win, then someone necessarily will pay a diamond's price for a sapphire because that's how markets work. There's no vacuum. Do you agree that supply of cost controlled decent to quality SP on the trade market is slim? If so, then why wouldn't demand respond in kind? There's no such thing as worth it or not worth it divorced from that. And BTW, you were wrong on Glasnow. He fetched a Top 100 equivalent + another useful piece and the Rays forced LAD to ALSO eat a bad contract too. And no, the LAD getting an extension out of it doesn't make it distinguishable. Very few people think Glasnows deal adds SV at that price.

It doesn't accomplish dick for us. CIN isn't going to allow him to just be a throw in. They will use that to lower the prospect price and we don't need another average right handed player that will make no meaningful difference in the coming two year dumpster fire in 24 and 25. The Mods should block out the phrase Jonathan India since it's arguably worse than a four letter word.

Unless there's a sale, the Orioles window with this particular group of kids isn't that long. Once the high end guys get to arbitration there's no way they can keep these guys without ballooning their budget and their owner is worse than JR.

If quality SP at a cheap price is what they seek they aren't going to get anything in the same zip code and maybe not even in the same Milky Way as Dylan Cease by trading Santander and Hays. Why would someone give up a quality pitcher controlled for multiple years for a person estimated to be paid around 12-13m this year in arbitration for barely over 2 WAR by fangraphs projection and who is only controlled one year? The salary alone basically almost wipes out any value. Hays will be making less than that but he's not expected to even be a 2 WAR player next year. No one will give up anything meaningful in the pitching market to get stuck paying money for these guys. But they are free to try.

No one is asking Dickless Mike to give up the farm. Instead, people are simply expecting him to be rational i.e. if he's got multiple prospects that are blocked and/or at duplicative positions where the prospect pool is deep and with other guys coming up soon too and if they can address their real needs in their window via trade and without spending money, it would make sense to move at least a couple of those duplicative and/or blocked prospects. If he gave up Cowser or Hjerstad, the other would remain plus numerous other OF prospects. Norby is completely blocked. Povich probably isn't blocked because their rotation is trash but he's not exactly super high end like Grayson so it's not a massive ask. I dont see what the issue is. If he wants to burn let him burn. If he wants to be rational and do a mutually beneficial deal where they still retain an overwhelming amount of studs including Holliday, Basallo, Mayo etc, there's a deal to be had where he can come out as a big winner for the fans and the cheap owner and still keep almost all his studs. If only he had a sack.

Yeah I saw that on their board. It will take a Top 50 overall prospect plus a bottom 50 plus another quality piece or two. Getz rumored ask of Cowser + Norby + something else that isn't just a lottery ticket is more than reasonable in this market. BAL fans don't seem to understand that there is no path to winning in the playoffs without a serious upgrade in their rotation and their cheap owner won't pay for it so this is the only ballgame in town. If Heyman is correct that the market is such that it will cost 4 of a teams top 10 and if Getz truly prefers Cowser as his OF LHS of choice then he should be able to get him and Norby and a pitcher like Povich and also either Beavers or Bradfield too. There should be 4 quality pieces here. I dont expect them to make a deal because after all Mike Elias isn't known as the Dickless Wonder for no reason.

How about Lowder, Petty, Arroyo and Jorge? If Heyman is right and we're getting 4 of a teams top 10, then Getz should be super aggressive. India does nothing for us.

In 2018 the Sox had the luxury of having several high end prospect bats ready to go for when the "window" subsequently opened and there was (at least on the surface) an actual viable plan for an actual functioning offense. Right now we have very little for our offense. If you are saying let's accept one prime LH savage and one prime pitcher in the trade, depending on who the savage is I'm kind of sort of ok with it even though in reality it sucks, but if someone is saying let's accept two pitchers as the primary pieces, I want someone to articulate for me what is the plan to acquire multiple high end prospect bats when 1) we likely will not have anything super valuable at the deadline to trade 2) Robert isn't getting moved, 3) we aren't spending any money for two years, and 4) "were just going to play Limp Dick Ball instead" is an unacceptable alternative. In light of the above 4 points, what is the viable plan to get the bats? I'll hang up and listen.

We do not need them to turn every dude into Greg Maddux. They need to turn like 2-3 of the acquired guys into useful starters...not aces...not 2s...useful 3s and solid 4s. Schultz is prolly your ace and yes they are going to have to spend some money too at some point in FA on a starter or two. If they are going to have like 120m payrolls for 2 years in a row, why shouldn't we be able to supplement with some FA after that? And I was told that they got a "steal" in Grant Taylor because of his injury and that Fedde was a new man after adding new pitches to his arsenal. So if they are gonna run their mouths that they outsmarted everyone then fine prove it, sleep in the bed you made, show me you outsmarted everyone. If they did, then there should be no objection to spending the capital we get from Cease on LHS, right?

We acquired Nastrini, Eder, Bush, Soroka, Shuster, Fedde (who Bannister is claiming is a stud now) and have a potential ace in our system in Schultz and a guy in Mena that should be able to hold down a rotation spot soon. Getz also presumably got JR to OK a good chunk of money to bring Bannister in to develop pitchers well. If you're saying we can only get good results by having elite talent then why is Bannister here? If his job isnt to turn chicken s%*# into chicken salad shouldnt his job be at least to turn pitchers with fairly decent pedigrees into fairly useful pitchers? Don't you think that maybe kind of sort of after addressing the position a half dozen fucking times maybe we should focus on fearsome left handed bats like maybe I dunno at least one or two fucking times? But maybe Getz has that same fetish that Hahn had whereby he seemingly got off on watching us have our nutsacks go thru a meat grinder against any semi decent RHP. There's alot of folks who get pleasure from pain and maybe that explains our seeming allergy to savagery. Maybe KW, RH and CG all got together in a stadium suite for a group circle jerk everytime we played Cleveland the last few years so they could enjoy watching us score a grand total of like 5 runs in the whole fucking series. Get some fucking savages already. I'm sick and tired of this pitching s%*#.

The salaries are not ridiculous. Ohtani was worth 10 WAR (approx 70-80m) last year plus worth tens of millions in addition in advertising to the Angels yet was paid only 30m. He was severely underpaid. There's NOTHING ridiculous about player salaries. Nothing. You are worth what you produce. Pro sports are a cash cow because people are willing to watch, stream, purchase merchandise and go to games and there's mega consumer demand from all of us who see sports as a wonderful, magical escape from the harsh realities of our lives and we're more than happy to send our dollars their way just to get some enjoyment from that. If the sport is bringing in say 2B a year why shouldn't the players have at least half that? The ballplayers produce that.

Eh...frankly there are many owners that could spend if they wanted to, its not just big market ones. The SFG make huge offer after huge offer but no one wants to take their money. They aren't a big market team. I don't think it's bad for the sport that a player chooses to be on a great team with great money. Many of us would choose the same in our own lives. If you could work for a great employer AND get a great salary you would. No team is entitled to "have" a certain player just because. Nor is every small market club unable to compete just because of limited resources. Tampa Bay and Baltimore compete just fine on a shoestring budget because they invest what they do have in the right places and get great ROI. Arizona went to the WS on probably a below average budget I'm assuming. I'm not saying there aren't troubling structural inequality issues in society, instead I'm simply saying baseball is a poor analogy for them. There's nothing wrong with teams (even big city teams) spending money on players.

Sigh.....this is frustrating. We only have one bullet left in our gun here, so if we blow it on pitching (again) then whats the FOs plan to get legit bats? I know spending money this offseason and next offseason isnt the answer and I know it's unlikely we will have any super useful trade chips that we can afford to unload next year so that isnt the answer either......so whats the answer?

Fathom you mentioned earlier that Sox and O's haven't been able to agree on Cease's value all offseason. Is the issue that Getz wants Cowser as the headliner, BAL is offering Hjerstad and Getz is scared he will end up at 1B and/or not have a high OBP to go along with his power?

It would need to be Dominguez++

The Yankees and Red Sox just offered huge sums of money to try and win...im pretty sure their owners are more than happy to send prospects instead. There will be more than a half dozen teams competing for Cease. Baltimore will need to get serious or else.

I mean if macsandz is right and we asked for Cowser, Norby and some presumably non Top 100 third piece, that's not an unreasonable ask in this pitching market. And if not, get BOS involved. If they are serious and willing to put Anthony + on the table, then Elias can go to hell.

Ok now prolly Snell to SFG and Montgomery to TEX and then Cease should get all the attention.

Yep this is not a good development in terms of forcing BAL to get serious.

That's a good point however if Bob is right and Pepiot was the key SP they wanted from LAD, it could complicate things if they feel the other SPers are more flawed. If LAD wants to be aggressive it will need to be a really good 3 or even 4 man package with none of the 4 being lottery tickets. Sheehan, Pages, Busch (yes yes I know he's 1B/DH and no I don't care, someone somewhere has to actually hit besides Robert and he's only part of the package not the "headliner") and Sweeney. All 4.

I feel if we start hearing about a really big move by BOS and alot of smoke about BOS then he's decided upon NYY and is just trying to drive up the price and get more opt outs.

Yeah thats how I'm reading it too. Better than ATL worse than BAL.

BAL- YES....where do I sign? CIN-YES but I'd like to take Stewart out and replace with Jorge if possible. No to ATL, SD and TEX

I agree with fathom that the PIT timeline doesn't make a ton of sense not that I'm complaining. If they are willing to give up Johnson + a backend Top 100 SP prospect that's fine. If we can get a third piece somewhere around 10-15 in their system perhaps in the OF that would be nice too. I really hope Getz doesn't just ask for like 3 pitchers and forget Johnson....there's a prime LHS at a position of real need, there is no excuse for him to be ignored. He will be likely called up by 2025 at some point so it's not like we're going to have to wait forever or anything. Get the savage.