Soxsi75

It wasn't a mistake huh?? OK. Let's look back at the full chain of events. So Jerry boy wants to claim that since we won the division in 2021 that the LaRussa rehiring made sense. OK, why did we win in 2021? Here's why. We won the division that year because for the first half of the season, Rodon and Lynn were at the very least 2 of the top 4 starters in the AL. This despite Robert and Jimenez being out the whole first half. So the attitude then was, "gee if we're this good now, just think how good we'll be when they come back!!" Well now the LaRussa affect came in to play. Partly because no one was good enough to make a run at us, he treated the entire second half of the year like one long spring training by putting "C" team lineups out there, giving all the regulars constant days off, especially during the last games of series's. He continued this stupid trend into 2022. Except we didn't have a 12 game lead to sit back on while doing this. He never would have done this in 1983. He never put out a lineup with Fisk, Baines, Luzinski and Kittle all not in it. But he did now. He defended this by saying he wanted to keep his players "fresh." Again, he never did this before. In St.Louis, Albert Pujols missed a total of 3 games in 2 years. How was THAT keeping him fresh?? He managed like a tired, old man. Which is what he is. Therefore, we played like a tired, old team. Except we weren't old. So that just created a lazy attitude and atmosphere around this team. For God's sake, he even publicly said "don't run out ground balls too hard so you won't get hurt!!!!" Can you imagine a manager telling his team not to play hard??? OK. So now LaRussa's gone. We needed to change that laissez Faire attitude with a kick in the a## type manager. We did that before. When the corpse like Manuel was fired after 2003, we brought in Guillen to be that way. But instead after LaRussa and his laissez faire ways did we bring in a manager to change that? No. We bring in Grifol. Now maybe, to be fair, Grifol may turn out to be a decent manager some day. Not saying he will, just giving the benefit of the doubt. But he wasn't the right man for this job. We needed a Billy Martin or Dick Williams type to kick this team in the a## and change this Laissez Faire way. He didn't. Instead he's cemented it. So it's not the slightest bit surprising to hear Middleton tell stories of pitchers falling asleep in the bullpen and no discipline. Now a lot's gone horribly wrong the last few years. From injuries, to players underperforming, to Reinsdorf's cheapness, to Hahn's incompetence.....There's a lot of blame to go around. But bringing LaRussa back has been a major part of it. And so for idiot Jerry boy to defend the rehiring of his old buddy LaRussa. That's flat out stupid. And can't be disputed. So I ask Jerry boy again. Why was it right to bring LaRussa back?????

As my title states.....It's the ownerships fault they let Rodon walk and did NOTHING to replace him. But decided to keep Keuchel after it was painfully obvious the second half of last year that he no longer belonged on a major league mound. They needed the first two months this year to verify that??? What's frustrating is we s_cked on purpose for 4 years with promises of "be patient because in a few years we'll be awesome." Well, tomorrow is now here. And they've tried to now go cheap. In those 4 rebuilding years we had no payroll. But despite that we let Rodon walk because we didn't want to pay him. It's the managers fault as well. Actually LaRussa was sh_tty last year too but since we won the division it wasn't as recognized. This CONSTANTLY resting the regulars and putting B team lineups out there. It got to the point that he was doing it once a series the second half of last year. But the thought process of "we have the division won, so we need to have the regulars fresh for the playoffs," I dealt with because there wasn't anyone good enough in our division to make a run at us. Now I'm not saying this cost us the Houston series last year, but I'll take to my grave that it DID cost us the home field in the Houston series. We finished 2 games behind them. And it is a FACT that we "punted" at least 3 games the second half last year. And considering we did well against the Astros in our park and couldn't do a single thing, 0-6, in their park......Not saying he shouldn't have rested people sometimes. But he overdid it. That's carried over to this year. In April, after having two straight rain outs, we played a DH in Cleveland. Keuchel pitched the first game, need I say more there, then in the 2nd game LaRussa put out a C time lineup with everyone getting the second game off. This was after having two days off in a row and in April and he's worried about burning people out??? He never used to do this before. He never put out a lineup without Baines, Fisk, Luzinski and Kittle in 1983. He never batted Jerry Dybzinski third like he did with his favorite pet Leury Garcia. And I haven't even gotten to his ridiculous use of the pitching staff, intentionally walking guys while ahead of the count, or allowing complete lethargic, lackadaisical play. The trainer and trainer staff should all be fired. It's insane that nearly EVERYONE keeps having leg and back injuries. The hitting coach should be fired. Because I ask what the .... happened to our power? Is he encouraging this approach where a team that's supposed to have all these home run hitters playing in homer friendly park is down at the bottom of the league in homers? Which leads to the players themselves. They've underperformed. I'm going to say basically EVERYONE has been disappointing with the exception of Cease, a pleasant surprise in Cuetto and maybe Vaughn. Everyone else that matters you can make a case that they have been ranging from disappointing/underperforming to downright worthless and awful. I've been a die hard White Sox fan since 1975. So I've seen some excellent teams, some bad teams, some pleasant surprises, (1977 and 1990 come to mind,) and frustrating, disappointing teams. (1984 and 2003 come to mind.). But NOTHING compares to this. This is the only team I can honestly say that disgusts me. Now that all being said, it still isn't the all-star break so there's time for things to change. But usually by this time of the season you get an idea of the personality of your team. And thus far, there has not been a SINGLE moment where this looks like a playoff caliber club.

As I'm entitled to mine. Which is why I started the post. Oh and by the way, yeah we should be grateful for the season we had. And the playoffs are a crapshoot. Hey, I kept this post shorter!!

You're right. I agree with you and actually always have. I expressed myself poorly if it seems like I was trying to say something different. But this White Sox team hasn't had the chance to get that sustained success yet. The rebuilding we've done is just the last couple of years bearing fruit. What inspired my original post was how thoroughly barbecued the White Sox were on here for losing a playoff series, to an excellent team mind you, as you stated yourself as being one of the teams who have had sustained success. And yet, even a sustained success team like the Dodgers also lost in the playoffs this year and therefore didn't accomplish any more than we did. Just like every other team will except one. But we are on the right track. But all I heard on here was bullshit like, "this organization sucks. We haven't won a playoff series in 16 years." Or, stupid ass things like we need to get rid of Abreu or Jimenez because they're too much alike. Maybe this team will provide that long term success? They're built to with having many of our key players signed for a few years. If we go 79-83 next year, then I'll admit I'm wrong.

Actually it was worse. Two teams in the NL East lost more games than any team in the AL Central.

"the better teams still win a LOT of these series." I hear you and I THINK this is usually true. But I'm not sure. Boston beat Tampa in the playoffs. Now, someone can argue that Tampa Bay is built more for the regular season then a short series. But they did win what 8 more games than Boston? That tells me Tampa Bay was better over the course of the long season. Same thing with Atlanta beating Milwaukee. Brewers had the better record. I guess I'm a bit defensive about this in saying the team that had the better record is usually better because of the White Sox history. Are people aware on here that the White Sox in the years 1963, 64 and 65 won 94, 98 and 95 games respectively? And all they got to show for it were 3 second place obscurities? But do you think the Yankees and Twins, the pennant winning teams of those years, would have liked facing a pitching staff of Gary Peters, Joe Horlen, Juan Pizarro and Hoyt Wilhelm out of the bullpen in a short series? You don't think we could have won a short playoff series with those guys? We might have had a dynasty in those years and we might have had a statue of Gary Peters in our ballpark. Instead, many people don't even know who he is. Or even still, what about our teams throughout the 50's, which in my opinion were even stronger overall then these teams in the 60's, that would have made the playoffs today but didn't then? So instead, we here all this bullshit about how the White Sox have only won one pennant since 1959 and won one World Series since 1917. And not just the White Sox. It's amazing how much history could have been re-written if things were always the way they are now. "Getting beat by legit good players like Altuve, Correa, Yordan and Tucker is very different than getting beat by an out of his mind Eddie Rosario." You're right about this and I agree with you. Maybe it was our bad draw getting Houston in the first round? Maybe we would have beaten Tampa Bay? I definitely think we were better than Boston. But I guess in the end it doesn't matter. Because it still would have gone through Houston, and I do feel Houston was the best team in the AL this year. So I guess I have to say to you point well taken. "I have no interest in rolling the random playoff dice and hoping for storybook hot streaks. Gimme the best team we can put together on paper and I’ll take my chances there." I 100,000% agree with you there. Well put. That's all we can do. But I'm just afraid that because of the randomness of the playoffs that it might not matter? That someday in the playoffs we'll run into another "out of his mind Eddie Rosario?" In essence, the reason I did use the Dodger/Brave series as an example is because LA had the stronger team. There is no way to dispute that. They won 18 more games than Atlanta. But in the playoffs...... But you are absolutely right in what you saying "Gimme the best team possible and take our chances." That's all we can do and hope for.

Exactly. Well put.

Well put. Thank you.

Not relevant. I'm talking about this year and proving that each year, the playoffs are a crapshoot.

I know we are White Sox fans on here, but we are also baseball fans. So since the Dodgers were clearly inferior to the Braves this year getting their asses handed to them in the playoffs, just like our White Sox were lambasted for being so inferior because we lost a playoff series, and I've heard all this talk about all that needs to be changed with this Sox team because we lost a playoff series, what do the Dodgers need to do to get themselves to be on the same level as the Braves?.............. .........oh wait. The Dodgers were 18 games better than the Braves during the season? So they really were better? Well, they lost a playoff series to them. Which proves one thing boys and girls. THE PLAYOFFS ARE NOTHING MORE THAN A CRAPSHOOT!! Now to begin with, I'm not ignorant enough to believe we don't have deficiencies to work on this off season. We don't have a right fielder, (actually we didn't have one before the season and didn't bother to get one,) we don't have a good every day second baseman and Kimbrel was a train wreck. But all I've heard since we lost the series to Houston is all that's wrong with us on here. I've even heard one idiotic comment on here that one of our problems is Abreu and Jimenez are too much alike so we need to get rid of one of them because of that. Now I know everyone is entitled to their opinion, but I can't let this ridiculously ignorant statement go. Maybe the Dodgers should get rid of Justin Turner, Max Muncy and Chris Taylor because they are all proponents of the "launch angle" theory, and therefore too much alike!! ( And yes, I know Muncy hits lefthanded so please, nobody comment on here that Muncy is different from Turner and Taylor being left handed. Because they all have something in common buying into the launch angle theory. ) But hey, they lost in the playoffs with these guys.....so I guess they aren't good enough. I said in another post on here that only one team will win it all and everyone else will end up a loser. And the fact is that the FIFTH best team in the NL this year won the pennant!! So let's here it everyone. We're number 5! We're number 5! We're number 5!! Is that a chant heard very often?? I guess my main point on here is the White Sox had a good year and won their division. And they will continue to be a strong team with this nucleus. What I feel proves this is we won 93 games without even being REMOTELY healthy. Do we have some work to do in the off season? Of course, as I stated two paragraphs ago. But to barbecue this team because we lost a playoff series? That's ridiculous. And if you believe we should, then you better to make sure you rip on the Dodgers, Giants, Rays and Brewers, all teams that won more games than we did, and also lost in the playoffs. Playoffs are a crapshoot boys and girls. Pure and simple. If your team wins it, enjoy and celebrate it. If you don't, nowadays it doesn't prove a thing. And maybe I'm being a bit sensitive because an analogy I've always liked to use, is your favorite baseball team is like your little brother. You can rip and pick on him all you want but nobody else better do it. So hearing the White Sox get ripped on here so heavily makes me defensive. Even if it is by other Sox fans. And guess what? We may shore up all our weaknesses this off season, get back to the playoffs..........and possibly lose again in the playoffs next year. Because winning a championship is never promised and the playoffs are a crapshoot. If you don't believe me, than just ask the Dodgers.

Not sure about the cheating........but Correa did seem to be looking for that 97 MPH chest high fastball from Rodon. Maybe he guessed right?

"September should have been spent lining up the rotation to have Giolito and Rodon pitching games 1-2 and Lynn and Cease pitching games 3-4." I actually posted in a different post on here, (don't remember which one,) saying this is how they should align their rotation as well.

Very well put! Thank you!

Look this isn't easy to say. But now that emotion has worn off a bit and we try to look at this practically, there is a lot of truth in saying simply the Astros beat us because of how well they played. Since we've lost, all I've heard about is all the things WE did wrong. We got nothing from our starters. Nearly all of our main hitters didn't have a single extra base hit. Leury Garcia misplaying a ball in right field allowing two runs to score because we never bothered to get a right fielder, even though we all knew we needed one before the season started. (Adam Eaton doesn't count.) Therefore, Garcia never should have been out there in the first place. And Kimbrel continuing to pitch like the pitcher we acquired instead of the pitcher we thought we were acquiring. All of these items are true. But on the flip side. It was almost unreal how Houston took advantage of every single scoring opportunity afforded them. We walked too many guys. And they all seemed to come back to haunt us. Incredible clutch hitting with men on base, and situational hitting. Many times with two outs. Tucker and Alvarez both had simple grounders through the infield drive in runs in the first two games in Houston. Hitting em where they ain't. Wee Willie Keeler would have been proud. The only time Houston wasn't scoring is when our bullpen had a 5 inning stretch where it was lights out in the only Game we won. This probably is what precipitated what Tepera said. But they were still taking advantage of every scoring opportunity afforded them even in the game we won. I was probably most excited when Rodon pitched around the leadoff double by Altuve and left him at 3rd by striking out Bregman and Alvarez in the first inning of Game 4. Because this was the only time I could remember the whole series where they didn't take advantage of a scoring opportunity. So I thought, "is this trend changing?" Of course, we all saw it wasn't. We didn't get the clutch hits. And they always did. I do think their experience and our inexperience had something to do with this. I also will forever disagree with LaRussa treating the last two months like an extended spring training with his resting of players. I felt all along that would haunt us. I don't think a young, inexperienced team can get away with "turning it on when we need to," like this situation was asking us to do. But getting back to Houston. They simply couldn't have played any better. If they play like this, they should sweep Boston and also probably their opponent in the World Series. Therefore, I'm not going to watch any further post season games played by Houston because it will piss me off if they don't. That they only played flawlessly against us.

I agree with most of what you said. You're right, some real decisions have to be made this off-season and I agree they need to spend at least some money. I was angry for going the cheap route coming into this season by signing Adam Eaton. That blew up in our face when we had to release the injury prone, past his prime Eaton in July and we had no right fielder again for the rest of the year. But I disagree in saying we were "embarrassed" in the playoffs. We didn't get embarrassed. We lost. Just like everyone else is going to do before this postseason is over except for one team. Just one. Everyone else will have their season end in disappointment, including a team later tonight that won either 107 or 106 games, and will be eliminated at the exact same time we did!! And I don't buy the "well at least we won one round before getting eliminated. That's better than losing the first round." I call bullshit on that. Win it all or your season ends in the same level of disappointment. The 2006 Bears taught me that. That team went all the way to the Super Bowl, and should have I might add, yet all anyone remembers about that team is how bad Rex Grossman sucked. No fond memories of that team. What it came down to in this series was our starters let us down. We got nothing from any of them. And they had so little confidence in Lynn, that they didn't want to bring him back in relief of Rodon in Game 4, even though he'd be on regular rest. Instead they used a used up Kopech and things spiraled from there. My biggest complaint was why wasn't Kopech stretched out long before this so he could be a starter, like he really is, by the post season? We all knew what happened to Rodon was going to happen. But instead they seemed content for Kopech to stay a middle reliever, and he's too valuable to be used that way. If anything, if we want to still sign Rodon, it will now be a lot easier, because only a completely brain damaged organization will give him a long term deal. No matter what "Borass" wants him to try and get.

Could work the other way around. Maybe the ratings would increase as a result of the populations dislike for them and wanting to see them lose?

Maybe this is hopeful thinking. But I'm wondering if they have kept from announcing the start times to our series because if Boston wins we might get some evening/prime time games in the playoffs? Because if NY wins, we know the Yankees are getting the prime time slots. If it was definite that no matter who wins tomorrow night was going to get the prime time slots, might they have announced the times for the games by now? But since they're waiting.......

"If the offense shows up, Sox take the series IMO." That's exactly why I started this post. We haven't had our lineup intact at all this year. 10 games. And we averaged 7 runs a game in those 10 games. That's what has me optimistic. Because now our lineup is intact.

True.

My point is that it's difficult, maybe impossible, to assess this team based on regular season results because we basically have NEVER had our full regular team out there. But now we do. Not so much of an analysis, but more of a way to point out there really isn't a good way to analyze this team, because of having our entire lineup in some way shape or form not intact all year.

Haha! You're right it is moot. I've already changed it.

I guess a big reason why is because the White Sox are so difficult to assess. Because of the incredible amount of injuries they've had this year, no one can look at regular season results and stats and provide a truly intelligent prediction to this Astros series. But here's a way us White Sox fans can do so in an optimistic way. Sports fans know about the "Fab Five," which was the Michigan basketball's team nickname in the early 90's. Well, maybe we can look at this White Sox team as "The Main Six." Meaning regulars Anderson, Robert, Abreu, Grandal, Jimenez, and Moncada. Because of injuries and extended resting, these 6 guys were all in the lineup together, incredibly, only 10 times!! Not sure if there have been too many other division winning teams that have had their top 6 regulars in the lineup together 10 times, which is a tribute to this team. And no matter what happens in the upcoming playoffs, this will be something we can look back on this team in years to come with pride that they overcame this and won their division. But in those 10 games, the White Sox went 8-2 and averaged exactly 7 runs a game!! So based on this, for experts to say Houston has the edge offensively because they scored more runs then we did, wouldn't really have all the facts. It's also a shame that if these guys, (only Abreu and Moncada of these 6 weren't out extending periods due to long term injuries,) would have been together in the lineup more, we surely would have won enough games to have home field advantage in this series, but let's not worry about that, because if we win this series that becomes a moot point.

I completely agree with you. I don't believe the Bear game being at 3:00 will impact MLB's decision either and I also agree that if the Yankees do happen to be playing that they would want the Yankee game following and not competing with their own network. I'm anticipating the White Sox playing at 3 and the Bears also playing at 3. It's just bad luck for Chicago fans of both teams that the Bears happen to have a west coast game that day. Now MAYBE they start the White Sox game at Noon? That would be nice to do for Chicago viewers. Game 4 of the ALCS the White Sox played in 1983 against Baltimore had an early Noon start. And that was after playing a night game the day before. But I'm not going to hold my breath over that. And also, going back to the Bear/Cub game 1984 discussion, if this happened today, I would imagine that Cub/Padre game would have been moved to prime time since the Tigers had long since clinched their AL Pennant by that day. Keeping that game at 3 I think shows how much things have changed with broadcast decisions.

That is untrue. The Cubs Game 5 in 1984 was after the Bear game that Payton became the all time leading rusher.