Soxsi75

I agree, Giolito will start Game 1. My thinking is Giolito for Game 1. "Ropech" meaning the Rodon and Kopech combination for Game 2. Lynn for Game 3 and Cease for Game 4. Then back with Giolito obviously for a Game 5.

I hear what you're saying.....you're right, they did just simply prioritize staying healthy over HFA. But I think then you are playing with semantics a bit in saying they didn't "blow off" games. Any game where Goodwin is hitting 5th and Mendick and Zavala are both in the lineup.......yeah, you are blowing that game off. Not saying they are "trying" to lose it. But you are blowing it off because putting a lineup out there like that is saying you could care less whether you win that game or not. And that is the definition of "blowing off."

True, but not for as long. We've been doing it for 2 months. Houston's doing it more recently.

That is absolutely correct!! For 2 months, we flat out blew off 10 games. ( I actually was counting them.) Because our division lead was safe. Not saying we would have won all 10 of course. That would be silly. But say half? Then where would we be? Just too many games with lineups that included things like Goodwin hitting 5th.

You are absolutely correct!! That's why I said I'm worried on if they can just turn it on after having nothing to play for for so long.

Not taking anything away from that Baltimore team. My whole point is what happens in September is just that. It's only what happens in September. Has no correlation on how you do in the playoffs in October.

Haha! You're right, so I broke it down a bit more.

For everyone on here who thinks we need to be on a role in September to win in the postseason and not being so means a quick exit from the playoffs, I'd like to remind everyone about a playoff team from our past. The 1983 White Sox. They went 22-6 in September, 44-15 in August and September combined, averaged nearly 6 runs a game in September, AND won 19 of their last 20 home games. So what happened.........we all know we lost to Baltimore in the playoffs, but to go even deeper to prove this point.....after averaging those 6 runs a game in September we proceeded to score a TOTAL of 3 runs in the 4 game playoff series, and after winning those 19 of 20 at Comiskey, they went out and gave away the home field advantage by losing their two home games in that series. Shall I go further? In those 20 home games, they scored 134 runs, or 6.7 per game......and then scored a total of one run in their two home playoff games. Translation? There is NO correlation to how you do late in the regular season to how you perform in the post season. None. There is no such thing as "setting a tone" for the playoffs with meaningless September games. Yes, it is distressing how they're playing right now. And yes, if they play like this in the post season they will lose to Houston. But remember, we've been treating the last two months like one big giant spring training. NEVER playing all our regulars on the same day, or goofy pitching decisions like pitching Fry in a tie game today, or using Mike Wright in the 10th inning of the Boston game a couple of weeks ago. So their record since the all star break is misleading. My biggest concern is can they turn it on when they have to after not having ANYTHING to play for for 2 months? I've always believed that what helped them win in 05 was the scare Cleveland gave us in September. Because playoff pressure is real, but we already experienced it when it became a concern that we were going to gag away a 15 game lead. But when we held them off, we had our big scare, so October we could relax and play like the team that built up that 15 game lead. Another concern is Rodon, but even if he can go 4 or 5 innings and then turn it over to the bullpen, that would be fine. Everybody does that in the postseason now anyway. Also agree with someone else on here who didn't understand why we didn't stretch out Kopech more because we should have seen all this coming with Rodon. Because if we do have to start Keuchel, then we are in trouble. Not sure how he got so awful so fast. I posted this also in response to another thread so I apologize for the redundancy. However, I felt this is worth stating in it's own thread.

Well put. You forgot one though. How about the 1983 White Sox? They went 22-6 in September, 44-15 in August and September combined, averaged nearly 6 runs a game in September, AND won 19 of their last 20 home games. So what happened.........we all know we lost to Baltimore in the playoffs, but to go even deeper to prove this point.....after averaging those 6 runs a game in September we proceeded to score a TOTAL of 3 runs in the 4 game playoff series, and after winning those 19 of 20 at Comiskey, they went out and gave away the home field advantage by losing their two home games in that series. Shall I go further? In those 20 home games, they scored 134 runs, or 6.7 per game......and then scored a total of one run in their two home playoff games. Translation? As you put here, their is NO correlation to how you do in the regular season to how you perform in the post season. None. Yes, it is distressing how they're playing right now. And yes, if they play like this in the post season they will lose to Houston. But remember, we've been treating the last two months like one big giant spring training. NEVER playing all our regulars on the same day, or goofy pitching decisions like pitching Fry in a tie game today, or using Mike Wright in the 10th inning of the Boston game a couple of weeks ago. My biggest concern is can they turn it on when they have to after not having ANYTHING to play for 2 months? I've always believed that what helped them win in 05 was the scare Cleveland gave us in September. Because playoff pressure is real, but we already experienced it when it became a concern that we were going to gag away a 15 game lead. But when we held them off, we had our big scare, so October we could relax and play like the team that built up that 15 game lead. Another concern is Rodon, but even if he can go 4 or 5 innings and then turn it over to the bullpen, that would be fine. Everybody does that in the postseason now anyway. Also agree with someone else on here who didn't understand why we didn't stretch out Kopech more. Because if we do have to start Keuchel, then we are in trouble. Not sure how he got so awful so fast.

Where did you see/hear this?

"Tony will likely go with his preferred veterans like Leury, Goodwin, Hernandez even if they were at full strength." Well, I certainly hope not. Because if he does, then we are weaker than we should be and aren't putting the best team available out there. Which, I must admit, has had me worried for awhile. That this every day of putting B team lineups out there, because at times I admit we've had to with the injuries, becomes the norm just because we've done it all year. Therefore, he will continue doing it once the playoffs start.

Shouldn't Houston also have to "walk a tight rope in the playoffs" as well? Valdez and Garcia have each blown away the most innings they've ever pitched in a season.

I thought Engel was due to come back any day now? And how bad off is Vaughn? I thought his time off was mostly for "rest." Both physically and mentally.

Well, Valdez and Garcia have far and away exceeded the most innings they've ever pitched in a season. So shouldn't they be hitting the wall too? We can't be the only team with this problem. That's something else to be optimistic about.

Lineup wise, this is probably the best they can do. VS a right handed starter. VS a left handed starter 1. Anderson SS 1. Anderson SS 2 Moncada 3B 2. Robert CF 3 Abreu 1B 3. Abreu. 1B 4 Grandal C 4. Grandal C 5 Jimenez LF 5. Jimenez. LF 6 Robert CF 6. Moncada. 3B 7 Sheets. DH 7. Engel. RF 8. Engel RF 8. Vaughn DH 9 Garcia 2B 9. Garcia. 2B If Jimenez get's hot, maybe switch the 4th and 5th spots with him and Grandal. Or maybe switch Vaughn to 7th and Engel 8th against left handers. But one thing I've said all along, they've never been able to use this lineup due to injury and/or resting people. So I'm also holding out hope they'll be able to finally put their strongest possible lineup out there for the first time really all year in the playoffs.

I agree. So maybe that falls into the category of being hopeful Kimbrel will pitch better in the playoffs. Because Abreu will be out there in a playoff game to make that play.

Where as it is disappointing that the Rodon of April - mid July is only a memory, if he can give us what he gave us last night that might be OK. Yes, his velocity was down, but he was still getting plenty of swings and misses on his four seam, and he did get it to 95 or 96 a time or two to get some of those strikeouts. No, he didn't have his slider and he was wild. But even with that, Detroit didn't even remotely hit a ball hard off him. If not for Hernandez's piss poor defense, Detroit would have gotten no more than one run and possibly none, if that first ball that Hernandez didn't play becomes a double play. Then maybe he could have come back out there for another inning? Unless he really is hurt. Then all bets are off here. But it doesn't sound like he is. He's just hit a wall. But if he can go say 4 innings in a playoff game and then turn it over to the bullpen......that's the way it's done in the playoffs nowadays by everybody. Going 7 plus innings with your starters isn't done anymore. That's where Kimbrel being so awful is actually more of a concern. If he continues to pitch this way, then we're cooked. Guess I'm still holding out hope he'll find it by then. That and get Hernandez the hell out of there. Play Garcia at second in the playoffs. Not ideal, but Hernandez is worthless.

Excellent analysis. One thing I'll add, when analyzing the White Sox this year and how they'll do in the playoffs, it's important to remember that the ONLY 2 games that they have had all of those top 6 guys you mentioned in the lineup together was the Friday night game against the Cubs, the first game of the series here in our ballpark, and last night. And in those 2 games they scored 17 and 9 runs. Now that of course won't happen all the time in the playoffs.....But my point is, it's nearly impossible to gauge at all how the White Sox will play in the playoffs based on what has happened during this regular season. Because we have basically NEVER had our regular team out there together.

You're right about everything you said here. Very well put. I'm glad you mentioned Moncada in your statement here. Because I know he's been criticized for having a bad year or that he's a disappointment. But he's played excellent defense, he's third in the league in OBP and I saw where he has the highest line drive percentage of any hitter in the AL. Now by stating this, I realize I might be being hypocritical and being a sabergeek myself. But that's where your "everything has a place, and this game is great enough for both to be covered" quote is spot on!! My biggest problem is like I mentioned, someone who hasn't seen someone play and decides to look at a specific statistic and decides they really weren't as good as everyone thought they were at the time, like Garvey not walking enough. Bill Buckner might get rated and criticized for the same reason........That I do have a serious problem with.

Just simply got that idea because of what I said. He didn't draw walks and didn't hit for power. Same reason why the sabergeeks out there who claim 40 years later, many of whom have probably never seen this guy play mind you, that Steve Garvey was overrated because he didn't walk enough. And Garvey too had some excellent WAR years. But I digress here because I've always promised myself to only talk baseball here and not Sabergeekness. But hey, I'm glad you posted this to show his worth.

Lance Johnson was very good. If the ball stayed in the ballpark, he caught it. He could run and he could hit for average. He didn't have a good arm, but he knew that too, so what I do remember is to offset that, he was very good at getting to hits quickly, something he worked on. Therefore, baserunners didn't go from first to third on singles on him very often. Now, the sabergeeks might not like him because he didn't hit for power or draw walks. But then again, who the hell was going to walk Lance Johnson, a guy with no power but could run? Similar to a Juan Pierre. So not drawing walks wasn't a weakness of his, it's the way he was pitched. He also didn't strike out. So he wasn't up there flailing away at pitches out of the strike zone while not drawing walks similar to a Corey Patterson.

Here's something to be positive about. I definitely believe that McCullers is Houston's best starter and there isn't a great deal of doubt he will start Game 1 for them. But with us, we have 3 guys who could, as the fact that this post even exists proves. Greinke is 37 and Garcia and Valdez have some nice numbers but they both have blown away the number of innings they've ever pitched before. So our rotation has to be considered deeper based on this.

I think the issue is, and I've heard a couple of others state this same thing hear, is it's getting tiresome watching the White Sox seemingly take the attitude of treating so many games as if they're spring training games. Because, I know, they can. They've had this big lead and have kept this big lead despite doing this. And so they've been allowed to keep doing it. The whole approach is to "be healthy for the playoffs." OK. I hope it works. I've kept track of this, so I can state them, but in the last two months the White Sox have "blown off" at least 8 games. And I'm counting tonight. Having Wright pitch the 10th and Mendick pinch hit, two AA level players in a tight game, is blowing the game off. Too many games of having Goodwin hitting 5th and Zavala and Mendick in the lineup to give guys "rests." But like I said, they can. The lead is still 11 games after blowing off this game tonight and I have a feeling all our scrubeenies will be in the lineup tomorrow as well. So tomorrow will make blowoff game number 9. Now I'm not saying they would have won all those 8 games if they would have played a regular lineup. And I can see doing it sometimes. But are they over doing it? I ask that because this can't become the norm and I'm concerned that since the White Sox are used to playing this way, will they continue to? Once the playoffs start, Zavala, Mendick, Hamilton, and even Garcia, should have ZERO at bats. If Goodwin has to play, (we went cheap in the off season, signing Eaton because we thought he'd be "good enough," and that has blown up in our face now because we don't have a right fielder,) he bats 8th. No higher.

I couldn't have put this any better myself.

Absolutely!!! I think the Orioles felt the same way. I've heard a few quotes, specifically from Ken Singleton, that the Orioles told themselves after Game 1 that "we'd better make sure to win the next 3 because we don't want any part of having to deal with this guy in a Game 5." No clue what Dybzinski was thinking on that play. The play was right in front of him. Gary Roenicke was on the ball IMMEDIATELY!! There was no way Law was going to score on that play. I've read that he thought Leyland would still send him because of how aggressive the White Sox ran the bases. But that's utterly ridiculous. Man it hurts to still talk about this!! Might have been nearly 40 years ago, but it doesn't seem that long.