Soxsi75

I don't think that will be the case. In 1983, the only other year LaRussa managed a playoff team with us, LaRussa started Britt Burns in Game 4. The right choice of course. And I'm not just saying that because of how well he pitched in that Game 4. But he could have gone with Jerry Koosman, the most experienced pitcher in our rotation. Both by time and the fact that he'd previously pitched in 2 World Series's in his career. But he wasn't one of the 4 best starters in our rotation in 1983. So he didn't start a playoff game. Burns was outstanding in September of 83. Cease is getting stronger right now as well later in the year when some of our other starters, like Lynn and Rodon, are hitting a bit of a wall. So Cease is this year's Britt Burns. I bet he'd start a Game 4.

Well put and I agree with everything you said here. You and I had talked before this stretch and I had mentioned that how we do against these teams in August will have no bearing on how they do against them in October. You disagreed a bit and felt that the important thing was to evaluate how they play. I wanted to say now that because of how you wrote this evaluation I respect very much what you said and have truly given an accurate evaluation. And to your credit you didn't just base this on results. You responded to another post regarding the Tampa Bay series. "Don't think we really learned anything from this past series." That is absolutely correct!! After winning the first game we seemed to mentally check out for the rest of that series, and threw nothing but pitchers who might not pitch very much at all in the playoffs. We started Keuchel and Lopez those last two games and it's strongly possible that neither one of them will start a playoff game. Keuchel might. He's in the running for the 4th spot with Cease I imagine. So based on this, there's no way anyone can say "since we lost 2 out of 3 to Tampa Bay, we can't beat them in the playoffs." And that was my point when saying what we do against them now will have no bearing on if we can beat them in the playoffs. So I think we might have agreed on this a bit more than you may have realized. What WILL have a bearing on how we do against these teams in the playoffs will be more determined by the points you made here.

I would say Grandal's injury has hurt the most by far. Because we had no answer for a replacement. When Eloy began the full year hurt, Yermin Mercedes came along and helped plug that hole in the lineup. At least for awhile. When Robert got hurt he was not as easily replaced because for a good part of it, his main backup, Engel, was also out. But the White Sox were able to get by for a couple of reasons. One, Billy Hamilton's speed and defense helped the Sox in some ways and the Goodwin pickup helped out more than I thought it would. But most importantly, at this time our starting pitching was outstanding. We were throwing 5 excellent starters out there everyday. But now......Rodon has worn down some so he went from being possibly the best pitcher in the AL at the time, to having some weery, tired outings and also now being rested all together. Keuchel is now pitching poorly. This happens over the course of the season. So you have to win in other ways. If your pitching goes through a period where it isn't as strong, you make it up with your offense. Especially at this time of year when your pitchers might begin to wear down. But then Grandal went down in early July. So for 6 weeks now we've had to get by with a couple of guys who are backup catchers at the very best and are worthless offensively. We basically have been playing a man short since Grandal went down. Hope Grandal comes back soon. And when he does, he'd better catch every game in the playoffs, as someone I saw post on this thread say.

Good point. But you saying this reminds me of something else, not related to this Kimbrel topic. They have underutilized/babied Kopech this year. The talk all year was they were going to stretch out Kopech over the course of this season so he can possibly be a starter by the end of the year. They haven't. He's only thrown 49 innings this year. So now that could mean, he may not even be stretched out to start NEXT year either! His role this year has been nothing but a one inning reliever to usually pitch the 6th inning. Maybe the 7th. I understand they're concerned about his long term health. And if anyone responds to this post, they'll probably bring that up as why they've done this. But I do believe they've taken it too far.

You just said yourself. "Present results do not predict future outcomes, that isn't the point." Actually, that IS my point in my post. You say evaluation is. OK. But isn't part of evaluating looking at the results? My whole point is how they play against a team in the regular season isn't going to have any effect on how they perform against them in the playoffs. I came up with two examples of this in my post right off the top of my head. If I wanted to really dig deeper I can probably come up with thousands more if I involve all other teams. I said there isn't any "setting the tone" by regular season results influencing post season one's and I'm sticking to that because it's true.

I always hope for the White Sox to win of course. And so I certainly hope they come through this stretch playing well. But that being said. And this is a fact. There is no such thing as "setting a tone" for the playoffs by beating possible playoff teams in the regular season. There just isn't. That is something made up by the media to try and create interest and to have something to write about. In 1983 we beat the Orioles 4 times in a row in August. How'd that season end? On the other side, in 2005 the Angels came in here and swept us in September. Again. How did that season turn out? What's important is we have a 9.5 game lead and therefore wiggle room to do the things we need to do to get and stay healthy and ready for the playoffs. That's it. If it means losing some games because of the timing of throwing second line pitching sometimes between now and the end of the year to be ready for the playoffs, then so be it. We don't get any extra points for winning the division by more than 15 games, and it DEFINITELY doesn't mean that if we lose a series to Tampa Bay in August we say "gee, I guess this means we can't beat them in the playoffs." That is flat out stupid talk.

Like for another reliever.

I agree with everything you're saying. As far as today goes, I never was holding out hope for some splashy pickup like Bryant. But I do think they need another reliever. If any one of Heuer, Ruiz, Burr or Lopez pitch even one significant inning in the playoffs, then we didn't do enough. Now maybe if any of them do pitch in the playoffs, and they miraculously somehow pitch well, then you can follow your Rodon analogy here. But do you believe that's likely? Isn't it naive to expect it to be so? We can certainly root for it and will. But it is about playing the odds. Getting better players create better odds. And there are better relievers out there than Heuer, Ruiz and Burr.

Nice pickups yesterday. But we can't be done. We still need another reliever. I'd have been OK with just one reliever if it was another closer like Kimbrel. (That's been done before when a team has traded for a closer even though they have one. Remember when we GAVE Robertson to NY even though they already had Chapman?) But if all they were doing was going for bullpen depth, which is what Tepera provides, we need another guy like him. The main question to ask ourselves is this. With the way the bullpen is now constructed, will Heuer, Ruiz, Burr, or even Lopez still have to pitch even ONE single significant inning in the playoffs? (And I mean by significant inning, is an inning where the score is within 6 runs on the upside or downside for us.) If the answer to that question is yes, and I'm afraid it might be, then we don't have enough. And we have until 3 today to do something about it.

Better not be done. Like the pickup, but he isn't enough. Need another reliever like him.

Love to go to the Cleveland board and hear what they're saying about this move.

Truthfully? Who cares! The idea is to win, and to do so, when you have the chance to, which the Sox now do and should for years to come, you trade organizational depth/prospects for major league pieces to fill holes. I'm a Sox fan, not a Birmingham Barons fan. We don't get any special prize for hoarding prospects. You want to argue Hernandez isn't the right guy they should have gotten to help them win now, that I'll listen to, but giving up a AA pitcher to help you win now.....

Thank you. Exactly!! Your words should be remembered whenever we lose a series the rest of the year. I'm sick and tired of media induced panic by people who listen to stories of "this is a playoff preview" and if we lose a series to them, it means we can't beat them. Throw in the fact that as you pointed out, this shouldn't be even close to the team we'll have in October, ( if we're healthy.) This series meant nothing. It meant we lost 2 out of 3 games. And also, to flip around what you said about the Angels beating us in 05, it's worked against us as well. Does anyone remember that in August of 1983 we won 4 games in a row from the Orioles? And the Orioles weren't missing Cal Ripken and 2 other regulars.

I remember watching this!! I think because of that ledge on the wall, Tiger Stadium was the only major league park that that catch could have been made.

I think what could turn out good for us, is everyone else around the league feels the same way.

Ah yes.....you're right, my bad. left off the catchers. My bad completely. Hard to win with no one behind the plate!! Haha! So I guess from this list, Goodwin and I guess Burger would be the odd men out. But I'm standing by keeping 13 pitchers MAXIMUM. Don't need more than that with how good our starters are. That's 8 relievers. Really don't think we should need even that many.

Actually I have 12 pitchers on my list and 12 position players. Goodwin would be the 13th. So if Goodwin is the odd man out that leaves room for one more garbage pitcher. But with how good our starters are, 13 pitchers is enough. Start having these relievers go more than one inning.

Why can't they keep all of them? Vaughn, Robert, and Engel and Sheets platoon in right with Hamilton a defensive specialist and speed guy off the bench. Eloy DH's. The rest of the roster can fill out this way. Our 5 starters, Rodon, Lynn, Giolito, Keuchel and Cease. Your bullpen would be made up of Hendricks, Kopech, Bummer, Crochet, Heuer, Ruiz and then say Lopez, if you want to keep a long man. The infield would then be Moncada, Anderson, Garcia, and Abreu third to first with Mendick as your utility infielder and Burger. If we get a second baseman, like I hope we do, then Mendick is gone and Garcia takes that role. That's 24 men. So that leaves room for Goodwin. With how good our starters are, we don't need 2 more garbage relievers at the back of the pen. If they want one more garbage reliever, then I guess Goodwin becomes the odd man out. But they can keep them all if they want.

I agree with some of your points, but there are some problems with it. Your first one of taking the first pitch I have a problem with in some cases. Ask yourself this. Is a hitter going to be very successful if he's only given 2 strikes? Because if you go up there and take first ball, get me over fastball right down the middle for strike one against a pitcher with a wipe out slider like McCullers has, that's in essence what you're doing. It worked well that Anderson and Moncada hit first ball fastball before they could get to two strikes. McCullers just stopped throwing first ball fastball to our hitters. As a matter of fact, he seemed to stop throwing his 4 seam fastball at all after that. He seemed to throw about 90% sliders after those first two hitters. The second problem of what you said is you're using the Sox as an example of needing to change this. Going against these basic fundamental forms of hitting is the approach all players around the league take, not just the White Sox. It's a major reason why strikeouts are so up nowadays. What you're saying about choking up on the bat, not trying to pull, protect with two strikes, all are technically true, but not followed by anyone in baseball today, not just the White Sox. Madrigal is a major exception, and you're right, he is missed because he did do this. But he is a major exception.

That's exactly right!! As Sox fans, we have to keep telling ourselves exactly this!!!

Very true and well put.

That's what it comes down to. The attitude around this team is we can beat up on the bad teams but can't beat the good ones. That we are comfortably in front of a weak division but wouldn't be if we were in any other division. OK. But what's a shame is where would we be if we weren't RAVAGED by injuries? We have 4 regulars out!!! And of those 4, 3 of them make up the entire middle of the order, and 2 of them are 2 of our best players AND have been out all year!! Is Houston better than us? Right now, with Brian Goodwin hitting 4th, yes they are. But the plan remains the same. Get healthy for the playoffs. Maybe Houston will beat us anyway. But we hope we'll have our full team then. We don't win in 2005 if Dye and Podsednik are out all year. Plus Iguchi going down for the year in June, plus Pierzynski and Rowand being out for long stretches. And the same can be said about any championship team you want to use that example of.

I voted for signing Lynn only, based on the choices given, although I would want to sign both. The reason I passed on the Rodon option is because of the term not the money. I wouldn't give Rodon a 4 year contract. As a matter of fact, with his track record, I don't think anyone will. If they do, they'll be foolish.

Justin Verlander and Bartolo Colon would do exactly the same thing in their hardest throwing years.

Anderson is going to play left and Moncada and Vaughn are going to share 3rd?