Soxsi75

OK.......we'll reassess again in October. Of course 100% of our prospects aren't going to pan out. But right now only 2 of them in the outfield have, out of about 7 of them they were high on, and one of them pulled this stunt which has started this entire conversation. That's why I brought up the topic of what happened to the depth we were supposedly building. You seem high on the idea of moving Vaughn to left and that everything will be OK. I truly hope you're right. So you say "they never promised you a rose garden. Just a good team." True enough. We'll talk in October about the results of that.

If Vaughn hit's like Ramirez then I see your point. If not, we're comparing apples to oranges. But I'll at least agree that I'm more intrigued by the VaughnLF/Collins DH than LeuryLF/Vaughn DH.

Hey look man. No reason to get personal here. Yeah......I know shit happens. Injuries are most certainly a part of baseball and all sports. But you know what? What's ironic is every example you gave are all examples of self inflicted idiocy. Just like what Eloy did. So to have your year potentially destroyed over something that stupid..... And giving other examples of athletes doing something stupid doesn't make this OK. And truthfully, whether it's good to hear or not, everything I said, right now as of today, it's factually true. Sorry if pointing out what the White Sox have done over the course of the last five years makes me a "dickwad." Hey look, you're right. The season hasn't started yet. And if everything turns out OK and we make the playoffs anyway despite this, I'll be the first to admit I'm wrong. Feel free to right me in October and throw it in my face. But if we don't BECAUSE of this?

To be honest, I guess I don't have one. Truthfully, no one does. And it's a shame there has to be a suggestion. But one is warranted because of Eloy's beyond idiotic stunt. So I'll just quote myself I put in the previous post....thing is, we've had to put up with garbage baseball for years while we went through this rebuild, (last years COVID year not withstanding,) with promises for the future, future, future. Well, the future is now. Anything short of a playoff team this year is a severe disappointment. And Eloy and his idiotic decision has put that in serious jeopardy. So maybe I'll stick to my thought that Eloy should be fined a years salary for this stunt, (though of course I know that's unrealistic.)

Well, unfortunately, I agree with every single thing you said.........thing is, we've had to put up with garbage baseball for years while we went through this rebuild, (last years COVID year not withstanding,) with promises for the future, future, future. Well, the future is now. Anything short of a playoff team this year is a severe disappointment. And Eloy and his idiotic decision has put that in serious jeopardy. So maybe I'll stick to my thought that Eloy should be fined a years salary for this stunt, (though of course I know that's unrealistic.)

Perfectly put. Which, I'm afraid to say, makes us a poor organization.

Now see, your point about "not taking good routes" is what has me worried. If there's a situation where there's a couple of men on and there's a hard hit ball to left field and it's a play that all normal left fielders will make, even Eloy, but Vaughn misplays it and both those runners score and possibly cost us that game.......That's what I mean by can he make all the routine plays. If this happens then he shouldn't be out there.

OK Fair enough. I agree with you there. Now the question is, WILL we go outside our organization?? Why do I have a feeling we won't. Garcia and Engel are decent BACKUPS. They're not everyday players.

OK, fair enough. Maybe a better question might be, can he make all the routine plays that Eloy would have made? Because you're right, Eloy couldn't either. Only difference is, hopefully Vaughn won't make stupid decisions at the wall.

I'm not asking for ALL of it. But are you going to argue that MOST of it hasn't? When one injury like this happens and so the result is we have NO realistic options? Hey man, I'll be for the first to admit I'm wrong if everything turns out rosy in the end and we make the playoffs this year. But if we don't.....and this idiocy by Jimenez is a major reason why not.....then my criticisms are warranted.

Look at my original post. I thought we were stockpiling talent in the rebuild. We didn't. There were all these "disappointments." The idea of trades like this are for one team trying to win now to trade for players to help them win now and the other team to try to win in the future. I'm not against making trades like this, so don't put words in my mouth by saying "we should've kept all our major league players and tried to win but kept losing." But then it comes down to player evaluation. Who in the organization thought Blake Rutherford would turn out to be a strong major leaguer? Whoever did sure was wrong. And it's not just Rutherford. There were, as pointed out by others, many other "disappointments." Like I said, I thought we were stockpiling talent in the minors with this rebuild. We didn't. We failed.

"Worth a shot." Question still stands. Can he make EVERY play a normal left fielder will make? If not, this is a joke. Because this isn't a developmental league. Win now. Anything less than a playoff spot is a severe disappointment. Cripes, I'm mad. Of course the players association would never in a million years go for this, but I almost feel that Jimenez should be fined a years salary for this.

Well, you're right, those were some horribly bad one's too. Wow. Do we have the worst ownerships in the country here in Chicago? I feel cursed that I was bred to be a White Sox and a Bears fan.

Oh........disappointments. So we "gave" all we did to NY for Rutherford who's been a "disappoinment." Well, forget anyone saying the Sosa/Bell trade was the worst trade in franchise history. At least we got a proven major league player in that one and could be explained. We "gave" NY 3 pieces to win for total complete garbage.

I thought I heard that the one of the strengths of this rebuild we've had to go through for the past 6 years was the large number of prospects we were stockpiling. For, you know, in case something like this happened? Well, I guess I heard wrong. Where the f%^$ is Blake Rutherford?? You know, the guy we gave up an accomplished major league hitter, (Frazier,) and half the back of our bullpen, (Robertson and Kahnle,) for? Instead we have to try and make Vaughn learn a new position on the fly as well as learn to hit major league pitching?

A key question is going to have be this. Can he make EVERY play that any normal left fielder can make? If he can't, then this is a ridiculous experiment. Because this isn't a developmental league. After years of rebuilding it's time to win now. Anything short of a playoff spot will still be a failed season. The previous poster had it right. This is too much to ask of a 22 year old kid to not only have to adjust to major league pitching but also to learn an entirely new position.

Yeah. Great. But what would we have to give up? They'd have to accept nothing but minor leaguers. Would they be willing to accept that? I've heard they wanted Cease AND Kopech for him!!! That suggestion is beyond asinine!!!

See my post I wrote on Zack Collins earlier in this thread. It's time for Zack Collins to produce NOW! He's 26. So he's no longer a "young player on the rise." It's time for him to live up to the praises given to him by sabergeeks impressed by his OPS in the minors. Vaughn's still young so he might still have some growing pains. Hope he doesn't....but realistically he might. So I hope you're right about him "making for an easy pivot."

Unfortunately, you are absolutely right. His production is not going to be off set. No way it can. The best way to look at it and the best case scenario is this. Whether he's here or not, our pitching would really dictate how far we go. Is our pitching good enough to get us to the post season? Now it might have to be even better because now we went from an excellent offense to maybe an above average one? I just hope they do get a major caliber hitter out there to plug in to left and not settle for minor league level garbage like Nick Williams or Billy Hamilton, or even Adam Engle offensively. As far as another bat at DH to help off set this loss, it's time for Zack Collins to step up. He's 26 now. By that age, look this up if you don't believe me, you'll know if you're going to be a good major league hitter. Many hitters throughout history may struggle before this age, and you can chalk it up to being young. But they figure it out and you'll see them producing by this time/age. So no more hearing from the sabergeeks about his OPS in the minors and therefore what he can do in the "future." It's now as far as he's concerned. Vaughn is still young. Hope he can adjust quickly.....but he can say he's still too young. So I'm looking at him as a bit of wild card hopeful.

Very well put!!

This might be a strange question, but I thought I'd throw it out there in case anyone knows. But does anyone know of a book written about the decade from 1910-1919? I don't think I need to describe how important this decade is to the history of the game and I was wondering if there are any books written on the entire decade. There are plenty written about pieces of it. A book on the 1917 White Sox, the 1910-1914 A's, a book on the Federal League, and of course "Eight Men Out" about 1919. But nothing on the whole decade as a whole. Maybe one doesn't exist, but I was wondering if anyone may know. Thanks.

Purely coincidental. Again. Spring Training records mean NOTHING.

But of course, spring training records mean nothing. No wait. I'm wrong. They mean LESS than nothing!!!

Agreed.