vilehoopster

If you have been reading on this board, you have learned some interesting things about WAR or fwar. Is there a difference between the two? I really have no idea. Some of things quoted on here about war or fwar (again, don't know if one is the same as other one or if there's a difference - and don't tell me; I don't care.) According to WAR: the 2005 World Series Sox every day players were all average or so, and Sox only won that series by pitching. Really, really hard for me to believe, but a weak case could be made for that one. Regardless of home runs and RBIs (and now all-star selection AGAIN), Abreu is a below average 1st baseman. Sorry, can't start to believe that one. And here's the killer and it was on some thread last week or so: Kelvin Herrera has a better WAR than Colome and therefore he is the better pitcher and has done more to help the Sox this year. Honest. Who else remembers that thread? So I got new for all the advanced stat people; I'm gonna pretty much ignore WAR claims and just stick with home runs, RBIs, ERA, saves and stuff like that. Call me crazy.

I don't get how people on here and on that "Colome ample trade interest" thread act like Colome has such little value and they say that the Sox can easily replace him with a free agent next winter? How can you people who say that ignore what he's doing and devalue it? He came in today in a tougher than hell situation because it was the Twins, and then Garcia made it tougher with the lead-off error. And he still got the SAVE. He'd still be perfect in saves if Rondon had gone to 1st instead of home in Boston. The Sox are not just gonna find an any old closer and replace Colome. And it kills me that with McCann doing what he's doing, people also imply on that thread that we would have been better off keeping Narvaez and not gotten Colome. That's just stupid. And if we haven't given Moan4Yoan enough grief yet, he just posted on the "Colome ample trade interest thread" that "Colome still juicing up that trade value. I agee with you guy, I think he wants the Sox to lose.

But on a point of reason, I would trade a couple minor leaguers for Quintana. But that's because he's really still a White Sox.

I wouldn't trade Moncada or McCann for any Cub player, and you know why? Because they're fucking Cubs!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I've had tickets to that game for weeks!!! Life is great!!!!

Yes, I agree with this guy. I wasn't talking about now; I was talking about at the end of the year, in the off-season. when I think we can get him back.

I agree with this. I miss his defense and am completely underwhelmed by Cordell and Tilson. I know a lot of you get pissed with his bat, but it sure is nice to have a centerfielder who catches everything that is reasonable, and if you complainers are being honest, Engel catches a lot of stuff that is completely unreasonable. His defense is light years better than Leury's and Tilson and I don't think his bat would be any worse than Tilson's or Cordells.

Well, I for one like Palka, and if it's gonna be DH, I would rather have his much more potent bat than Collins. If Collins is not catching and gaining experience there, why have his weak bat in the lineup? Here's a crazy idea: let's have our best available hitters bat and try to win the game because I don't see the Sox winning this game 2 to 1. If he's not playing RF, I don't get why you guys are so down on Palka. I don't even start to see what makes Collins so much a better choice than Palka.

I was watching Sports Talk last night, and Dave Kaplan pretty much dismissed Quintana as a quality pitcher. Kaplan talked about trading Quintana and this guy for that player or trade Quintana for that player; he gave like three trade ideas to help the Cubs and all three involved trading Quintana. Then he said something like about (not sure of quote but this is the idea) that Quintana's velocity is down, he did say "he is what he is" and that he was a "4th" pitcher if that. I just looked it up and Quintana is 0 and 4 with a 5.65 ERA in his last 7 starts. I think the Cubs want to get rid of him because . . . He's their embarrassment of the front office. Whether fair or not, the overwhelming majority of Sox fans blame Yonder and Jon Jay for not getting Machado. That feeling was very evident on this board, and still is, how people talk over and over about how stupid management was to get these guys to try to entice Machado. After he went to San Diego, most of us resented Jay and Alsonso being here and the online noise was and is loud. I think that's part of the reason why Yonder stunk it up so badly this year; he cracked under the pressure to justify that he was here. Maybe not, but the resentment was there and still is. I think the same thing has and is happening with Quintana. Cub fans resent and blame Quintana and they have put enormous pressure on him to justify that trade, and it has really gotten bad. I don't talk to too many Cubs fans, but Kaplan complains about that trade all the time. Mike Wilbon has complained about it on PTI twice that I have seen. After Cease won minors pitcher of the years awards, the complaining got worse, and gets worse with every home run Eloy sends into orbit. I think now the blame and pressure on Quintana greatly surpasses what Yonder and Jon Jay ever received. And I think Quintana is cracking. He is not liked by Cub fans and I have got to believe he wants out and the Cubs management wants him out. The Cubs have the option to resign him for one year for $10.5 million. I don't think either party wants to do that for the reasons I mentioned above. I think the Sox can get him for not very much when you consider the potential return. I say offer one of those outfielders in AA whom the Sox have been waiting to show something, offer one of those and someone significantly less, and I think the Sox can get him and his salary which I think the Cubs also want to get rid of. What do you think? I think if Quintana got back to the Sox, that would go a huge way in getting him back to what he was, if not, I would bet we can him a lot better than he is for the Cubs right now, and he would be a huge help to our pitching staff.

I think there's a real possibility that Palka could be more valuable to the club going forward. Palka hit 27 home runs in the majors last year, including a few really clutch ones. I thinks there might be something about Palka's make up mentally that could make him a very good player. Collins has 49 home runs in four years in the minors. He is a career .234 batter in the minors. There's a real possibility that Collins could turn out to the every bit as good of a batter as Cordell, Rondon, and Delmonico turned out to be (Sarcasm there). You guys all assume that Collins is a sure thing; that automatically he's gonna be a good to very good player. I think you're seeing more with your hearts than your heads. With that said, if I had to pick one. I would pick Collins because of the position he plays, but Collins is in no way clearly better than Palka, and I would say it's pretty close to 50/ 50 which one ends up helping the Sox more.

This is has be the ulitmate example of the White Sox giving a game away. I can half-ass accept that Jay lost that ball in the sun, but not really. But that decision of Rondon to go home was one of the stupidest decisions I can remember in a long time.

I agree. You got to get him out. It's his fault he didn't get the win tonight.

Steve said that Abreu was waiting on an inside pitch. Jason said here it comes inside and next thing, the ball was going over the wall.

Wow, did Steve call that one. Wow.

That was a total bullshit run. 1st what would have been a lazy fly ball in any other stadium is a double. Then the ump screws Giolito twice. Pisses me off.

Realistically, what can the Sox do with Yonder? Can we trade for a nobody if we agree to cover 3/4 of his remaining salary. Would that work. We have to do something to unload him. He killed us yesterday and again tonight.

Agree 1000 precent. Dump Yonder, who never should have been here, and bring back Palka.

And so the inning is over. Yonder kills another inning. I can't fucking stand him.

How much longer until the top brass sees that Yonder is killing us, and it's game after game after game. Get rid of him!!

He had 37 saves in 2016 and 46 in 2017. He was replaced as the closer in Seattle by Diaz last year and still had 12 saves last year. There's no reason to believe he can't keep doing what he's been doing this year for the Sox. Keep him and don't trade him for a 88 rated prospect who's in AA. You want to trade a guy who is 16 for 16 in saves for only an 88 prospect? I keep bringing this up but Blake Rutherford was rated higher than that when we traded for him, how's that looking. You don't win by trading your good players.

But Colome can help us have a great team for several more years and there's no gamble there. He's pretty much a sure thing, not some prospect who may or may not work out. Pay him when it's time and keep him into the future. How far into the future is your future? Does it go beyond three or four years from now?

I don't remember those guys from 2002, but I remember the names you mentioned for 2012. And I don't think any of those guys had ERAs of 9.75 (Santana) and 9.45 (Despaigne in a small sample with a guy getting thrown out at home and another one thrown out at 3rd). I somewhat remember Peavy and Humber being bad (about like Lopez and some of our other guys are now) but nothing like those two.

I agree that Collins should be playing today . . . . but don't you think McCann should have pitch-hit for Collins in the 9th inning last night? I saw one guy brought it up when it happened last night, but that was the only comment I saw?

This is a question for old-time White Sox fans since I am pretty new to being a White Sox fanatic. So, here's my question: In your memory, have the White Sox EVER started two such horrible pitchers in the same season as Ervin Santana and Despaigne? I have to believe the anwer is no. Now I know the Sox have started some pretty bad pitchers the last few years and especially lately, but these to were so clearly and obviously incompetent and not major-league ready. And with both pitchers this was obvious after a couple innings of their first starts. I am assuming that Despaingne will be receiving the the Santana response from the front office in a day or two. So back to the question, can you think of a season where the White Sox started two pitchers of this poor quality in the same season?

See, this is where we really, really disagree. 16 for 16 in saves is not just "OK" in the present. It's outstanding. You guys who keep describing Colome as a "2nd tier" closer or that he's only above average and only been lucky so far, your argument loses all credibility on that statement. As soon as you make a statement like that, your logic is obviously wrong and your point of trading Colome is lost. Only Hand and Colome among Mlb leaders don't have a blown save yet. That's clearly better than "OK". The odds that this "really good in the future" ever would be better and more helpful to the White Sox than Colome is in the present seems very low, very low indeed. Seriously, what are the odds that whomever we get for Colome will ever be one of the top two or three at their position (in this case closer) by the time of the all-star game ? I would say well below 20%. On the other hand, it's possible that whomever we get for Colome will never even make it to the majors. I would say the odds are above 20% So why trade a guy who is sooo helpful to the team now and into the future for a guy whom the odds are will never help the MLB club as much is Colome is doing now, and for whom there's a real possiblity that this traded for player might never make the majors. People on this board keep asking how are we almost at .500 with our starting pitching being so weak. Yes, the bats are better than last year, but the biggest improvement over last year is our bullpen and Colome is the # 1 factor of our improved bullpen. Why trade that away for a player who might make the majors and who is very, very doubtful to ever help the Sox as much as Colome has so far and will continue to do into the future.