vilehoopster

Because I am both embarrassed and worried. We get his brother-in-law for $9 million when there's no place to play him ? That's not enough so we then sign his other MIami training partner? Did White Sox keep Castillo at catcher and get rid of the other two because Castillo is a Machado buddy? Too me, there is a level of desperation here that is approaching pathetic. It's embarrassing, and it's gonna be super/ ultra/ meta (pick your adjective of choice) embarassing if Sox did all this and then don't get Machado. Seriously, signing his buddies and then not signing Machado will make the Sox a laughing stock of the league, and much worse, of the fans on the North Side. Plus I have another worry. What if we do sign him? Are we creating a prima donna who will be impossible to control. If we have a Machado and his buddies clubhouse, who is gonna really be running the team? Are the Sox setting themselves up for a situation like Lebron James had in Cleveland? James ran the Cavaliers for a while there. He told the owners to fire the coach and bring him his choice as coach and the Cleveland owners did what he said. He told them who to trade and trades to make and the owners did that too. If once we do get Manny, isn't there a real possibility that this could happen with the White Sox. First of all, there are indications that Machado can be a problem: the dirty play (stomping 1st basemen's feet). There's also the lazy play; you know you're lazy when you get booed in LA during the World Series. So, he does have issues coming in. So we got his buddies for him. Is it really a stretch to think that he will imput and where and when his buddies play? If he's unhappy because his buddies aren't playing, is it the really that hard to to think that word might come down from up high that his buddies need to be playing more and at whatever position they want? If he's unhappy with Renteria for getting on him to hustle more and work harder, is Rick gone? I could see this happening. Couldn't you? Also, what position is Machado going to play? We all assume 3rd base. But doesn't he prefer shortstop? What if he insists on playing short? Is it bye bye Anderson after the Sox invested all that time in him and he's finally ready to start paying off. By looking at some of the comments on the various threads, I think there are some who agree with me that our pursuit of Machodo has become . . . . something.

I agree with you, but how about development from those three and sign Kikuchi, if not too expensive. That would be a nice step forward.

I'd do that in a minute.

I agree. Really think Sonny Gray is the way to go. There is so much potential for him to be a real difference maker for White Sox. He's under 30. Get him away from the melting lights of New York media, Cooper him up a little. I really think he could become a top of the rotation guy again. And I don't think we should even low-ball NY, offer someting real, a top 10 to 20 level prospect and maybe a throw in.

Encarnacion is going to make 20 million in 2019. Just saw that on MlB. At 35 does anybody think he's worth that much money . . . and whomever we trade for him. I don't think so.

He was let go by the Padres, had knee surgery after the season; seems he was let go to make room for all their upcoming young pitchers. We still need a 5th starter. (You guys know this stuff better than I, so that's why I'm asking.) Can we give him some sort of minor league offer/contract and bring him to spring camp and give him a look? He's from Lafayette, IN and I'm from the area,so I'd like to give him a chance to pitch for the White Sox. Is that realistic? Is it worth the effort?

So I was watching ESPN this week on the Harper topic. The first show was (I don't know for sure) MLB Baseball, I think. So it had a panel of five guys, and the first topic was where will Bryce Harper end up. (I don't remember too well, so don't call me out.) But the first guy says the Phillies, the next guy says the Dodgers. Then the next guy says the White Sox, and the other two guys start laughing. I'm not kidding; they chuckled at that one. Then yesterday on Pardon the Interruption, Tony Kornheiser was talking about where Harper might end up. He mentioned the Philles, the Dodgers, and the Yankees. Then as he was ending up his talk he said, almost this exactly, "The idea that Harper is going to the White Sox is just silly." If this was Wilbon, the Pro-Cub A-hole, I could have just dismissed it, but I don't know. I'm starting to feel maybe I've been delusional about getting Harper. Are we White Sox fans just fooling ourselves thinking there's a good chance we could get Harper?

I stand corrected on the injury thing. I remember the shoulder thing now, but the other ones seem really rather minor. As to what Nate Jones makes, I looked it up on MLB.com and it said 4.65 million, so I think that one is correct.

He has no upside. Yes, he has potential. Yes, he could magically lead the league in BABIP again and hit .330. But no one is going to give you anything of value for him even then, and then what? He is a FA after 2019. Are you prepared to then pay him $15M AAV for his huge 2019? Absofuckinglutely not. $8M is not a lot in today's game. I agree. But Avi would be lucky to get half that if he is gets non-tendered. There are better players on the FA market, now and many more will join after tomorrow, that the Sox could sign for less, that would have more upside to the org. First of all, I am absolute stumped on the difference between upside and potential. In this context, doesn't upside mean potential to do well and help the club win games . . . upside? Avi has a ton of upside/ potential if he can bat over .300 again and hit 25 or 30 homers. That would help the White Sox win a lot of games. . . ie upside. And I got news for you, if he bats over .300 next year and hits about 30 home runs, abso-stinking-lutley I would pay him 15 million a year so he can come back and do that again the next year, and so on. And there are not better players in the free market for 8 million. And I don't want trade value for him. I don't want to trade a guy batting over .300 for another who maybe, in a couple years might end up batting .300. I want him to keep batting over .300 for the Sox and hitting over 25 home runs. That to me is serious upside. I don't see how that is complicated.

This is the guy who started this thread. Sorry about the bold. I typed it in google docs to have spell check, and when I copied and pasted it, it came out bold and I didn't notice. After discussing the concept of arbitration and sub-abritration to death, let's back on the original topic of is Avi worth keeping for 8 million. I still say absolutely yes. Again if Nate Jones is worth taking a chance on for 4.65 million, than Avi worth is chancing 8 million on with all his potential People complain that he is oft injured, but only the last couple years. I don't remember him having health problems his first three years with the Sox when he was a .250 hitter. The reason why he didn't play more was because he wasn't good enough to be a full-time player, not health. (If I'm wrong on this correct me.) But don't come on and implied he's been injured his entire career because that's not true. He's been injured a lost less the last couple years than Luis Robert. Do we get rid of him? Also, many people are saying that he's terrible on defense. That's not true; three years ago he was terrible on defense. The MLB.com article describes his defense as "servicable". I would agree with that; he's average, adequate. Now if we are playing Palka or Delmonico in the outfield, they are terrible. And I have news for you: Eloy is not going to be to be playing defense as well as a healthy Avi will be next year. Others are bringing up this or that metric that seems to show that Avi was lucky batting .330 in 2017. So what does that mean, without what luck or chance this metric seems to show, would he have only batted .315 or .310?? That still sounds excellent to me. That .330 average was in 2017. I say it again, are our memories really that short that we can't see beyond last season and the disappointment we feel about Avi, as well as the entire team? Also, people keep bringing up where is he gonna play when Harper gets here. Really, really??? Do you really think Harper will be here next year? Look at the history of the White Sox. Any time you look at any rumors online on who is most likely to sign Harper and five or six teams as mentioned, I have never seen the White Sox listed. Sure if Harper were coming, I would say let Avi go, but come on people, let's return to the real world in which exists the White Sox as we know them.

This is a long-time White Sox fan but a first-time poster. I am posting to express my dismay and how I disagree with the idea of non-tendering Avi Garcia. I don’t understand the why management would consider this on a guy who is under 30, and who is only one year away from batting .330. Other than Avi last season, when is the last time the White Sox had a guy bat .330? People on this forum dismiss that season, like it was some kind of fluke and this year we saw the “real” Avi. That seems illogical to me. I realize that for his first three years with the Sox he was a .250 hitter, but that .330 season was an entire season, not a hot month of July. He had 518 at bats that season, it seems to me that to carry that type of average over an entire season, that there has to be something there beyond luck and a hot streak. How can people accept that this season (when he was injured with various leg problems) is the “real” Avi; but that somehow his .236 average in 2018 in only 356 at bats is valid, and 2017 was a fluke. That seems completely illogical. And unless you believe he wasn’t injured and he and the Sox were just using that as an excuse, than that make the argument that .236 is the real Avi even more ludicrous. It will take 8 million to keep him. I say 100% pay it. It seems like a bargain to me, when you consider the potential he has to bounce back. Even if the the odds are small (which I completely disagree with), it still seems like a good bet when you consider the possible return. In the other thread, many people have commented that they don’t want him in our division because they don’t want to play against him 18 times because he has the potential to bounce back and be killing the ball again. It said in the MLB.com article that “he going through intense workout to get ready for a fully healthy return.” If this is true, which I think must be, I gotta believe we will see a healthy, trim Avi next year. And a healthy, trim(and motivated) Avi has the very real potential to hit at least .290 and hit 25 or so homers. Let’s talk about the money, the 8 million needed to keep Avi. When Nate Jones was resigned for 4.65 million, even though he has been hurt a ton the last two years and only pitched 42 innings in those last two years. The consensus on this board (which I agreed with) was, why not, 4.65 million is nothing, he’s worth the chance. If that is true, how can 8 million be a crazy amount to offer a guy who (once again) is under 30 and a year away from .330. The Sox paid 52 million for the Luis Robert because of his potential (which again, I agree with); but somehow, Avi’s potential (a year away from .330 and with 19 home runs this injured season) is not worth 8 million. That makes no sense. The Braves invested 23 million on Josh Donaldson who is 33 and this year batted .246 and had 8 homers in only 187 at bats because of injuries, but again, people think we should non-tender Avi rather than paying him 8 or so million. (I agree again) Everyone here wants the Sox to pay 35 to 40 million a year for Bryce Harper who batted .246 last year. Was .246 the real Harper? Of course not. So why is .236 for an injured Avi the real Avi? The Sox can certainly afford 8 million, this next year, so invest it in a player who, yes, was disappointing last year, but are our memories really that short???? Come on, let's pay this guy and give the White Sox a very real chance to get a very powerful bat back in the lineup.