Look at Ray Ray Run

Exactly! The exciting thing about owning the White Sox (becoming the next owner) is the Sox are a legit brand. They have a distinct identity, logo and place in culture. This happening to the Sox, and let's be honest this is Jerry's last effort to maximize the sale value (he isn't seeing this through to 2030), could propel this team to being a premier level franchise under new ownership and a winning culture. They'd be an urban team in the heart of the most beautiful urban setting in the world.

Yes, vacant but not undesirable. The site required a lot of work and cleanup and the location has only improved. You've spent pages arguing against everything about this so its difficult to believe this is something you support.

The current park is fine, the location isn't great. I also don't know how to break the news on this, but developing the parking lots with restaurants and bars and retail in an area of the city that wasn't very popular, and was actually a rough neighborhood for a long time, doesn't make much sense. You're telling me the place will sit vacant when the Sox leave... that doesn't speak well of your belief that Jerry should have built that area up. If other developers see no promise, why should he have? The 78 has been a place people wanted to develop. It's not at all similar to 35th and shields.

There's more support for this deal from my non-chicagoian loop-living friends than there is on soxtalk. Honestly unbelievable

And the stability and longevity of the org in this city. I'm a white sox fan and my son will be, and I looked forward to very few things more than sharing those same experiences with my son that I shared with my dad. People have been so broken here they'd rather see the Sox playing in another city or a deadbeat location just because they hate Jerry. They hate him more than they'd like to see a dream-like scenario happen to a team they love... over what? Allocated tax dollars by a state and city that has pissed away tax dollars and endless things I didn't support. And mostly tourist tax dollars! And for what? So that plot of land can remained undeveloped until the city eventually grants some sweetheart deal to some other developer? Give me a break.

If it comes to fruition is tbd, but there's a proposal for that spot in addition so.... The City has a chance to develop a plot of land around small business and residential -- no huge office space being wasted. How it's paid for really is semantical because there's no world that exists in which a huge project like this gets funded the way YOU want. That's just the truth. Reading pages and pages of Sox fan fight against the betterment of the organization and its long term health, all in the name of principals that are only being applied to the White Sox, is truly baffling. The amount of people that want to see the org die on this forum is beyond odd.

And rents will be initially cheap, relatively speaking, meaning a restaurant scene can take hold for a decade plus similarly to Fulton market development. The south loop is one of the last underdeveloped areas in the city. I've said this 100 times but this would be a massive W for the city IF done right

You know businesses pay tax, right? I get you don't like this. I have no idea why Sox fans have decided theyre going to put their fiscal foot down on this project and only this one. I guess it's because complaining and misery is a Sox fan way.

Especially given the proximity to Michigan Ave and the loop which draws a ton of tourist foot traffic. You'd basically be expanding the area.

Sox fans sure are a miserable bunch.

Correct. System is complete garbage but it is what it is, and I'm not going to throw myself in front of the bulldozer because of the city making this type of deal again... especially since for once, I actually like the result!

Amazon negotiates massive tax breaks to build humongous, ugly, warehouse distribution centers. They don't pay dollars in taxes for decades while generating massive amounts of revenue. Their workforce that populates these facilities also aren't paid enough to survive so the government subsidizes them with forms of welfare. Every major corporation and developer in the country practices these same tactics. Difference for me? At least this is developing an area for multi-purpose, residential and developing the south loop area in a way that truly is beneficial for people and businesses in the area. Most of these other corporations gets these tax breaks to drive out small business and destroy communities. The outrage over a very standard proposal is amazing to me.

If the Cubs came up with a plan that wouldn't increase my taxes or add any new taxes, but would siphon money from something that is already being siphoned for a very similar purpose, my guess I wouldn't actually care beyond my standard hating on everything Cubs. This isn't about building a ballpark, it's about developing the land and adding more life to the South Loop and building up the area. Jerry is just benefiting from that, but that's just how this BS works now.

Can't say this enough that while it's state tax dollars, this is mostly tourist dollars funding this. Could we use the money for something else? I guess, sure.... but it's not as if this state has been putting my dollars to the best use over the past 30 years.

Most new apartment buildings are half empty? What are you guys even talking about? Occupancy in Chicago at any new buildings built in the last 15 years is right around normal rates. Chicago is not empty or barren. Tourism hasn't left --- a I noted 100 times, tourism is right at record highs. Converting office buildings into residential, in many cases, isn't even reasonable or efficient --- it would cost more to convert them because of piping/bathroom/kitchen challenges than it would to just start fresh. This site also is majority residential in the proposal so I'm not sure what the issue is.

No one cares about this stuff but for you and small pockets of people. These things are already in place. No one is marching on city hall against them. Tourism in 2023 was near record highs, maybe just below 2019. And sorry that people didn't plan for covid crushing tourism across the world.

Say what you will about Jerry, and guys like SSHM are doing that, but this is a brilliant deal and proposal taking into account the real things politicians care about (perception and development). Even if it extends where the tax goes, no "new tax" is an easy sell, and residents don't pay hotel tax so it's mostly subsidized by tourists. Those other things SSHM mentioned are already in place and no one complains about them or knows about them. Pritzker gets to stay true to no new tax on his watch for billionaires stadiums. Johnson sheds the soldier field debt and essentially politically trades it for the development of an area the city has been after for decades. Jerry gets to maintain his sweet heart deal and use found funds to further subsidize his new stadium absent debt.

Wait, they're banning driving to games?

Honestly amazing hearing and reading some of these takes. Especially with the proposed project in it's entirety, the population density within a mile of the ball park is going to go up 2-3 times. The location is great, they're going to be in the heart of sky scrapers closeish to the lake and and on the river. Some people were crying about no roof? Why would you want a roof to block the view? It's one of the coolest parts of the proposal. I actually didn't hate CF either because it looked open to people across the way at restaurants or condos (whatever it was) and walking by in some parts it looked like. Obviously these designs more conceptual, but the entire thing is organization changing. And while I don't like Jerry as much as the next guy as an owner. This is in his wheel house, and it really could be a win for the city with the major development in that area which they've wanted to develop forever. Only reason I'm hesitant to believe anything is going to actually happen (even though it feels like this is literally the ONLY plan and they seem pretty far along honestly) is because we're Sox fans and we really can't have nice things usually.

Anyone complaining about this is too far gone. This would be the best thing to happen to the White Sox ever. The stadium is cool too. Nothing wrong with it.

Really depends. This team is spending no money. Doesn't seem like paying one guy would matter at all and bellinger ceiling is actually a great player and I've been pretty critical of him generally but he's a great player.

Some would say 50% less!

Sox 80th percentile zip outcomes would put them in the top 8 offensively last year.

That's fine, I'm just not a big fan of his game and think his positive (Highish floor) shouldn't be what the Sox are targeting.

Westburg stinks imo.