Look at Ray Ray Run

Yes, agreed 100%. He got fired because when the moment got big, it was too big for him. Period, end of story. That doesn't mean he cost them tons of wins all year; it just means he wasn't suited to manage in those moments. Now, endless turnover is stupid and pointless and every study done in the financial world will tell you that constantly firing people in leadership positions is not good for sustained success. I think it's fine to say we wanted a new skipper now that our boat is 3 times as big and strong, though.

Why do people constantly compare the Sox and Bulls like this? The Bulls are an elite NBA brand. Possibly the most profitable team in professional sports over the past 30 years. The White Sox are, NOT FOR MUCH LONGER!, the second baseball team in town from viewership to attendance numbers. Gar Forman destroyed Derrick Rose and traded Jimmy Butler because you couldn't "build a contending team around him." HAHAHAHA He won the lottery - literally - and got a generational player who he helped to ruin by not supporting him publicly when shit hit the fan for him physically. It's also a little easier to build a roster that needs to have 5 good players.

The way it is now (not sure if it was then) if the team doesn't report that he sent an offer and used an agent and the league found out, the Sox would be penalized. Agree with you it feels petty and sounds like they should have let it go, but possible that they just reported it to protect their own ass.

Yes... so only the bad stretches show you what the future of a season looks like. The 20 of 25 stretch wasn't real, only the poor stretch was. SMH

not really since a young team improves with time Anyone who thinks a team with two true SP is a 95+ win team be crazy.

And ill add, if you think a manager is worth 3-4 wins in a 60 game season, then managers are the most underpaid people in the game. That would mean managers could be worth 8-10 fWAR over a season. Also, I dont think you understand my point. Im saying you take the good with the bad, and in reneterias case that was probably a net gain/loss of wins of ZERO if you account for his in game gaffes.

I'm not wrong. Your inability to understand that baseball managers have significantly more impact on the game before and after the game - and in practice, video sessions and etc - than they do in the game. For the last time, you cannot say that the players did everything on their own and made all their own success and the manager only failed and made mistakes. It's not logical. Clearly a part of the development and success of the younger players is on Renteria; clearly, he deserves some credit for taking a team picked to finish 500 or below and turning them into a .583% team. The thing that cost Renteria his job is that he did his job well up until that point; meaning, he did what he was supposed to get the team to overperform and put them in a position to compete for a title... what he didn't do was maintain that calm demeanor and sense of control when the moment got big; as a player, you can feel that. Ricky wasn't up for the task at the end, but he was one of the MANY reasons they got to that end. To pretend that the only impact Renteria had on the ball club was negative - holding the team back - is complete nonsense.

No, what's absurd is you thinking a team outperforming expectations has nothing to do with the manager at all and the ONLY impact a manager has on a teams success are the "negative" decisions you think he makes in a couple games; decisions that are at worst marginally worse, meaning sometimes they might even work out over the other one. This is where every single person making the same argument you've made lose there point. You want to give the players all the credit for their performance and record. The thing holding back this well oiled underrated monster is the coach... its illogical. The reason some of these guys prospered, developed and succeeded may have been due to the support and personality renteria had; the patience. The majority of a managerial impact is made off the field, before games, in the clubhouse, watching film.. it's not made in the 7th inning with a bullpen move. This is where the argument loses itself. Renteria was obviously a part of the reason the team performed well and developed. His shortcoming was when the stage got big, it became too big for him. He wasn't prepared for situations and he over managed. Bad combination. What he didn't do is cost the White Sox 3 or 4 wins, as so many here want to argue. Everything counts, not just the stuff that makes you irrationally angry as a couch coach. So yes, I've been called a defender for merely being rational. Renteria wasn't the right guy for the job. He also didn't cost them 3-4 wins.

I'm arguing the Sox won more games than most thought, so saying they should have won even more just isn't logical. Down the stretch, Renteria choked - but most so in game 3. He overmanaged and he's not a great in-game manager so over managing is suicidal. That said, again... the players lost the games. Just as the players took them on a pace that was ahead of all projections. This fallacy that other managers always make this optimal decision that every fan would agree with is just dumb too. Ricky wasn't Bevington. He just clearly handled and managed pressure poorly. He was pacing and had his hands on his knees like he was getting ready to keel over every time they showed him in the dugout in the playoffs. I'm sure that really made everyone around him feel great... jeeeeesus

If you had the White Sox as a 94-95 win team over 162 to start this season I commend you. If you thought they were a 96-99 win team over 162 then I commend you even more.

I said in another thread, but I'd hire Bochy first and Bochy only if he was interested in the job. Then probably Cora; Hinch would be fine, I just don't like Hinch dating back to his Diamondbacks days either. That said, he was so young then and he's fine now I'm sure. The hilarious thing is I don't think Managers mean much, but I think LaRussa would be an absolute disaster.

After LaRussa clearly showed how much smarter he was than everyone else while he lead the Diamondbacks to obvious league wide dominance, this was my favorite excerpt from Tony's Wikipedia page: In November 2017, the Boston Red Sox announced that La Russa had joined the team as vice president and special assistant to Dave Dombrowski, the president of baseball operations.[38] In making the announcement, the Red Sox indicated that La Russa would assist with player development, serve as an advisor to the team's coaches at the major and minor league levels, and serve as a consultant for Alex Cora, the team's major league manager.[39] La Russa worked with the Red Sox for two seasons, and after Dombrowski was released by the Red Sox during the 2019 season, the Los Angeles Angels hired La Russa as senior adviser for baseball operations in November 2019.[40] He was hired in 2017 to develop young players, and serve as a consultant to Cora lol. The Red Sox farm system is the worst it's been in years, the team went in the dumps, and Cora was suspended a year for Cheating. Well done, Tony. Well done. Angels hire him to advise them on how to spend more money than anyone while missing the playoffs when half the teams made it.

Come on, you didn't think he and Dave Stewart were tearing the league up running the Diamondbacks? Remember how he and Dave completly fleeced the stupid Braves and stole Shelby Miller from them? All they had to give up was Inciarte, Dansby, and Aaron Blair.

This is a disaster. LaRussa would be a dreadful hire and he appears to be the front runner.

Bochy would be a great get. Just read he said he'd be interested; I'd much rather have Bruce than Hinch. Met Bochy once at a bar in Milwaukee after a game when they were playing the Brewers; it was the night of the Villanova National Title game and the guy had like 75k on Nova. Really cool guy, and everything I've ever heard about him from anyone around baseball and on the Giants is that he's great.

Why would Rick Hahn be fired for executing a rebuild and having it turn out - to date - exactly as planned?

In general, continuity is better than not. In general, I agree with Dick that kicking the guy when he's down is pointless. If the Sox win the division by 5 games next year, or lose it by 5, is anyone really going to argue it was the freaking manager that made the difference? I honestly don't think there's ever been a job whose impact has been more exaggerated by fans than baseball manager.

That's fine and if they hire him its fine. I have some beef with him passing the buck and blaming cora, beltran and the players but thats just my opinion.

So the manager of a team "tried" to stop cheating but didn't have enough control over his own roster to do it... and you want him to replace a guy who veterans didn't think held some players accountable enough? Pretending that Hinch tried to stop anything is a joke.

World Series; Technically no one can contact them. That rule is obviously complete nonsense and MLB has no enforcement power; they're not subpoenaing phone records.

I think they liked Ricky the man, and appreciated how he always had their back. I think some had questions about Ricky the disciplinarian and man of accountability, in addition to some of his in-game decisions down the stretch. Had their hot spell come at the end of the season and not the middle, I doubt we have this conversation but it's understandable either way.

After Hahn's presser it sounds like they're going to spend some money on a proven guy so clearly neither of these two, but I think the Sox have interest in someone they know will listen and apply their strategic thoughts while not being a huge personality. People with prior relationships to the young guys would be a bonus in my thought process above.

What's absolutely hilarious about this is veterans are saying Renteria didn't hold players accountable and how that's an issue, while AJ Hinch literally tried to claim he had no idea what was going on/or what the players were doing during the sign stealing saga in his own clubhouse and dugout lol.

Bochy would be nice, but doubt he's on their radar and not even sure he wants to manage anymore.

I like Cora; not a big fan of Hinch. He'd certainly be well aligned with the direction the organization wants to go though. Alomar has done nothing to show he's an upgrade.