Look at Ray Ray Run

Again though, I challenge anyone to show me an example of the players not liking Renteria. I don't understand why people don't think this is the most important aspect of a manager.

Where did I move the goalposts? I said Dombrowski doesn't build organizations with sustained success - I said he relies on veterans, and trades all his prospects to obtain those veterans; similarly to a Kenny Williams type approach. The Marlins won a World Series in 1997, and in 1998 they won 54 games and '99 they won 64. Of the 2011 Tigers, how may of those players do you think were drafted by Dombrowski in Detroit? Of the 2013 Tigers, how many were homegrown? Spoiler alert; not many. Edit: And for those that say the Marlins made him get rid of everyone and cut payroll... well, that wouldn't be a problem if his team wasn't littered with aging veterans.

This was one of my favorite, non-important, moments I've had as a White Sox fan. This Mofo got hit in the fvcking face, stayed in the game, and tee'd off. It felt even better knowing that Pavano is a complete asshat.

So only 3 of the 4 huge contracts he gave out were bad in Detroit. Got it. The 1997 Marlins won with Veterans - the average age of the team was 29 years old. Their starting rotation didn't have a single home grown talent, and of the position players that impacted the roster, only Charles Johnson was a ++ player that was drafted and developed by Dombrowski. Dombrowski is a FA/trade first GM who hit some home runs - absolutely - but he portraying him as some organizational builder through the draft is disingenuous.

You said exactly that about Sale, I literally quoted your post. And they didn't draft Sale to be a reliever for 2010. Just stop. Who gives a shit if they had doubters? If anything, that is a positive for the White Sox but you spin it negatively.

What? He said Maddon won in two places - he didn't. He had the talent to win in Tampa, and didn't win. Maddon has had some incredibly talented rosters in his managerial career, and he got the team across the finish line once. He's not a terrible manager and he's not a great one. He's just another guy among all the others running a team.

Domborwski is a lot like Kenny Williams with bigger budgets. The style can clearly work in the short term, but the insistence on building your team with veterans by trading away all your prospects is not a viable way of maintaining sustained success at the big league level.

Manager's manage people - that is their most important attribute. This team just went through miserable years, and you never heard a negative word come out of that clubhouse. People can chose to ignore that all they'd like, but after witnessing the Ventura debacle, and the embarrassment it caused this organization, I have no idea how people can just ignore this aspect of the game. It was very telling, and showed that the players like Ricky and support/defend/play hard for him. That is 99% of his job.

Maddon had the best roster in baseball in TB and won nothing. He didn't "win" with two organizations any more than Jerry Manual won with the White Sox.

Just stop; this is the worst take I've ever seen. The Sox drafted Sale because they wanted to save money in FA. You are discrediting one of the best draft picks in baseball in the last 2 decades. How hilarious is that. The Sox very CLEARLY thought Sale was a starter. They were very clearly correct in their evaluation.

Again, Renteria has spent 4 decades in the game and literally worked his way up through the minor league ranks and earned his place; he wasn't handed anything. You can disagree with his strategy, but to claim Renteria isn't a serious baseball man is hilarious. LaRussa was a serious baseball man, and he was also a know it all asshat who proved to be a moron when it came to evaluating talent and actually trying to build his own roster/vision.

Dombrowski has zero clue how to build an organization; he knows how to spend with endless budgets on big free agents - many who have destroyed the Tigers franchise. Then he went to the Red Sox and did the same exact shit.

Who cares how long it took to get back there? Stewart and LaRussa made horrible move after horrible move. How is separating Maddon from Friedman impossible?

The Sox didn't bring up Semien to save Free Agency money. Just stop. They drafted Sale because they liked him; not to save money in free agency. These are some hot takes for sure.

Wrong. Some people are actually capable of analyzing something without looking at W/L's for a manager. As has been noted 1000 times, this argument implies that Ned Yost is a better manager than Kevin Cash. Let that sink in for a minute. And are you really defending Larussa and Stewarts tenure in Arizona? My lord.

Or... wait for it... he got better players when he went to other teams so he looked better because his teams won more games.

It's wrong to move guys around and try them at different positions to open up flexibility? Weird... because most teams have tried this today after realizing the value in it. Viciedo wasn't a bad defender because he moved positions - he was a bad defender because he had poor reactions on the infield, couldn't throw, and had terrible breaks in the outfield. The White Sox traded Semein; get over it. The assumptions that the Sox wouldn't get anything out of Semien like the A's got is comical - given that the Sox were already the team to develop a 6th round pick into a MLB player in 2 years.

Also, I'll put my baseball acumen up against yours any day you'd like pal. I don't run around calling you a moron for having a differing opinion. I speak from a place of actual knowledge - given that I played the game at a high level and no player walks around blaming their manager for anything other than playing time. I also understand the need for analytic implementation - as I am a big believer in it, as is clear by my posts and analysis here - but the incorrect assumption that every poster makes is that all players want the data... they want the information. That's simply not true.

I have said I don't think Renteria is a good strategic manager; I've also said that means very little in the grand scheme of managing. Managers manage personalities at the big league level - that's their most valuable and important trait.

Sorry if I'm not going to pat Tony on the back for winning a World Series with the most juiced up roster in MLB history. I guess Tony deserves credit for McGwire and Jose shooting eachothers ass up with steroids. It's always funny to listen to people tell me how important a baseball manager is. It's not that Tony had some of the most talented rosters in MLB history - rosters that he clearly didn't build - it was all Tony... what a laughable comment. The best manager in baseball today, imo, has zero World Series wins. Does that mean he can't be the best? I certainly think Kevin Cash is about as good as we've seen at the position - marrying analytics with personalities better than we've ever seen. You go ahead and judge a manager based on the talent of their rosters, I'll judge them on things that aren't related to surrounding talent.

I was a big fan of Semien, but obviously didn't post here. He was a raw player who made great strides in the minor leagues - being, arguably, the best player at AA (I believe he won AA POY) and he was a terrific athlete. He was actually a lot like Timmy in the sense that he had a lot of tools, but he didn't have good fundamentals. How can you blame the White Sox for Marcus Semien? How big of a joke are these comments? Marcus Semien was a 6th round draft pick, who the Sox developed and got to the big leagues in TWO years. He was a big leaguer by 22 years old, and you think the majority of people didn't think he could be an MLB regular? After being the AA POY and reaching the big leagues in less than 300 MiLB games played?

The White Sox didn't "push" Leyland out. The White Sox didn't push Francona out. The White Sox did push Larussa out. Dombrowski is another complete hack who has no idea how to maintain sustained success.

LaRussa was/is a moron. He's actually my number one example of how coaching means nothing and that coaches receive praise for their players accomplishments when they shouldn't. Larussa's career was made on the back of steroid users; everywhere he went, roids seemed to follow him. Weird how that works. Tony spent his career thinking he was smarter than everyone else, and amazingly enough when really smart people actually started analyzing managerial strategy and becoming involved in the game, Tony certainly wasn't leading the pack. When Tony went into an actual decision making position for an organization, it didn't go so well.

Man, this type of commentary is just garbage. Semien worked his ass off and was given instruction by an instructor that he took too. He was the one who put in the work and improved his game. He was never "going to Japan." His defense has seen an uptick by one metric the past two years (he graded behind Timmy in the defensive runs metrics released yesterday). The main driving force behind his WAR was his bat last year. He had graded out as a below average SS defensively and became a + one defensively. To insinuate that he wouldn't have improved sans Washington goes against the work ethic he has displayed. Washington is a very good educator of infield fundamentals, but he isn't the one who defined Semien's career or turnaround - Marcus is the one who did that.

Wait, so larussa wasnt an intelligent hire because he achieved more elsewhere? You're all over the place.