Look at Ray Ray Run

No way it was Stras. 32 would have scared them off. They seem to not like ryu or Keuchel which I cant blame them for.

Everyone of the top guys took the most guaranteed money again. Dodgers and rangers both tried to get cute with the years and aav. Its about the money. Dont let hahn convince you otherwise.

From f**ans article it appears the sox will not be in on any of the top starters left. Hahn seemed to kick the can down the road another offseason by implying that you sign guys in their 30s when you know the window is here. Youd prefer younger guys if you're not quite sure. Wonder what there excuse next year will be. We're still not sure were there yet lol. Hahn also seemed to imply that they were in on one of the top guys without saying which one... but it just didn't work out.

The only way this makes sense is if they eat a horrible contract entirely to get a young player who they think is worth his contract + the bad contract more than one of the current FA'a are worth with their expected price tag.

its like watching your own fanbase through a different lens.

Mike Martin; the world's most stubborn swing destroyer! Swing like I want you to, or leave. It took Buster 2 full years before he told him that he thought he was a little more talented than his dumb ass swing plane coaching; in busters ever so polite way of course. You need to be willing to adjust to your players but I guess once you win enough games no one cares.

I think theres some big misconception that off-season work means you don't get it from your club. Plenty of players use outside tools and sources like Driveline. Bauer loved driveline and, as far as I know the Indians do take part in this analysis. Outside opinions can provide a different look that you dont get from your team. I know Ryan from his days at Top Tier Baseball - don't want to pretend that we've spoken recently because we haven't, but I had discussions when he got into consulting on things like biomechanics and as I understand it that is his primary role within the organization. Obviously I think Ptac information is much more first hand and I'd defer to him but he seems to agree.

Yes, and it's his main role within the organization. Remind me not to trust BDB's guarantees!

Also, I admittedly judge people who post shit like this on social media: What you do speaks louder than what you say, but let me say something anyway and post for the world to see! The guy also lists former hitting coach of Mizzou in his profile when the guy never even coached a single player there.

Yes, this is a great point and something I never thought about before.

They seemed to be caught up by not wanting to assign a title that would imply he is higher up than those he was trying to guide/assist/change. That part seemed like semantics to me. At the end of the day, it was his job to get people to buy in and I am guessing messaging was the issue here. You work in IT; I think you understand where I'm going. People trust you, and what you have to say, but they don't understand it if you don't speak a language they can relate to. I have people at my job who hate numbers (ironic and sad given the industry) and my job - at times - is to build presentations for that audience. Part of that job is to speak in a way they can relate and understand to gain their confidence in what I am saying. As I said, no one is breaking down Matt Lisle's door. Smart individual instructor, and maybe that's just all he is.

Price ZIPS projection puts him under 6 WAR over the next 3 years. FG's, which admittedly didn't project pitching contracts well this off-season, said Price would likely get a 1-2 year deal under 30 million if he signed today. Price is underwater because he's always hurt, and he's old, but he's owed a ton of money. Nothing about this off-season changed the worth of Price.

And he failed at assisting them with understanding and accepting it. Not all professionals in the working world speak the same lingo, and it's really important to speak to your audience to get them to buy into your change. Data is not enough to drive change; language and personality play a huge part of it. The organization was clearly willing to start integrating this, but Lisle apparently wasn't the best fit. Are they late to the party? Absolutely... but does the firing of Lisle signify they've quit on the mission? Of course not.

It actually sounded like the exact opposite; Giolito gave praise to Coopers willingness to evolve and change - something the White Sox fans will say isn't true. Gio very clearly said that Coop had bought all in with them, and was helping them.

Matt Lisle is not a dumb baseball man by any means, but can we stop with the over portrayal of his skill set? He's a softball coach right now; other "analytic" friendly organizations aren't exactly busting down his door. Matt Lisle is a good individual instructor, as of right now that's all he is. The Sox need more technology, and I am happy he tried to push it, but it's very possible he wasn't a great messenger and messaging is every bit as important as the data itself. These are the type of "the sky is falling" takes on the White Sox I just can't buy into.

You are correct, I was exaggerating like a dope. Still 13 months between them.

Think what you must about Hahn, but theres no chance he thought price and benetendi for Madrigal and Vaughn was the enticing offer he discussed.

This is nuts. Benetendi isnt worth more than the 45 million price is underwater. The sox would basically be throwing another 20 million into the deal by including madrigal or Vaughn. If they include both, those two are certainly more valuable than benetendi and we have to eat prices money? Lol. Price isnt worth either of those guys, not even close. You give me Eduardo rodriguez and Price and maybe we talk Madrigal but there would still need to be big money coming back to the sox and I dont trust them to spend it so pass.

Robert 3 years younger than Walker and had an OPS of about 1000000000 at the same level where Walker was fine but not great.

No Idea if this is even in the cards, but after reading the FG piece on Price and seeing they have him as 45 million underwater I'd love Eduardo Rodriguez and Price in a salary dump.

And Yes, Jerry has me very conflicted on him because I would love to work for a guy like him - which is how I judge most businesses - and honestly he seems like a great guy to those who work for him. That's a really honorable trait; I just wish he showed the same sense of loyalty and appreciation for the fans as he does his employees.

I will say this about Machado, I hope everyone silences their absurd "if other teams were involved" nonsense. Clearly, the Yankees, Dodgers, Rangers, Angels and on and on had plenty of money to spend. If they wanted Machado, they would have went out there and got him. Fact remains, a lot of teams didn't think Machado was worth the money he got, and I'm fine with that. I was more upset with how they handled the situation than I was with the end result.

This is where I think someone like Ricky Renteria does matter a tiny bit. Ricky is mentally challenged in terms of strategic managing, but it's hard to argue with the culture he breeds in the clubhouse. I am actually fine with Mazara, but only if it means they are going to use resources elsewhere. If they went cheap there just to be cheap, that kind of sucks.

Sure, but the difference between the HOF and not for Billy Pierce was the wins. He was every bit as good as Whitey Ford, but his team never got over the hump. The White Sox weren't miserable back then, but their offense wasn't good enough to support Billy's W/L record, and that was all that mattered back then. Billy came up ONE vote shy of the HOF. If he wins one title, or has 1 more 20 win season (say the season he was 15-10 with a 1.9 ERA!), he likely gets in. The margins for Billy making it and not was so slim, and his teams production is likely what cost him. Remember, there weren't 5 playoff teams then. I'm also not saying the White Sox were just as bad then as they are today.