Look at Ray Ray Run

I'm merely saying, if the Sox miss next year and make it the 2-3 years after, it's pretty much the same as the Astros making, then missing, and then making it 3 years in a row.

I will never enjoy horrible outfield defense. If you are a professional baseball player and you are a worst defender than I was, that's pretty embarrassing and I don't really enjoy watching that. It's the same reason I hate NL baseball, why are pitchers hitting? They aren't professional hitters.

Sure, but it doesn't change the premise that winning will always be more fun than losing. Billy Pierce was a great man; his team losing cost him a spot in the Hall of Fame. To listen to him talk about the White Sox throughout my childhood was always a treat; he had nothing negative to say about his time as a big leaguer or the team, but losing cost him the honor and praise he deserved. Losing has an impact on things, however small it may be in the grand scheme of life. I grew up loving the White Sox because of the respect they showed to someone like Billy; I admired their sense of family and loyalty. There are things I appreciate about the organization - their treatment of their own has always been positive - but there are also things I just hate in life and that's people who over promise and under deliver.

Come on, winning is always more fun than losing. Sports is about having fun. Losing to the degree this team has lost has been miserable; don't ask your fan base to suffer through that if you don't intend on rewarding them at the end of the tunnel when the light starts shining through. I don't know what year you played baseball through, but I can tell you that my years in which we won were certainly more fun than the years in which we lost. I developed bonds and relationships regardless, that I will have for life which is the point of this all, but it's nice to have a bond developed from success instead of failure.

I agree with this, but this is all for naught if they don't try to capitalize on these pieces. Watching Gio pitch was a thing of beauty and was very enjoyable. But we deserve that, and shouldn't be grateful for it. Sports don't effect me emotionally in a way that it brings me down or demoralizes me, but the joy that it brings during pennant runs and the time it fills during slower summer months is much more enjoyable than the opposite. I still talk about the Sox the same with my uncles and father; I still have season tickets with my uncle specifically, but it sucks watching Daniel Palka and Adam Engle and Dylan Covey. I don't know what to tell you, but I expect people to do their jobs and try to succeed to the same level I do.

I don't think all hope is lost; this team is lucky enough that amazingly their big trade pieces have almost all panned out. Kopech and Cease are TBD; but they are clearly high talent big leaguers with some longevity in their futures barring injury. Eloy and Moncada look like stars. Lopez looks like an, at worst, serviceable big league arm. Dunning is entirely TBD. Robert is like a walking statue of what a great baseball player should look like. This team isn't dead in the water because they have a lot of high end talent, but I'm losing face in the organization to maximize that talent. I'm still willing to give them another year, but I don't want to spend hours watching complete garbage again. Can't imagine how disappointing it would be to be in the Cubs position of possibly moving a HOF'er because they claim they can't afford him while having elite revenue numbers. Fans are being taken for a ride by ownerships league wide. Owners have never opened the books, and I can assure you it's for very good reason.

People who grow up don't care about their family and things they enjoy with their family anymore? Weird stuff. You spend hours on this message board, as do many of us, debating and arguing over something that only a child should care about according to you. The day sharing a common interest with your family and enjoying those moments - while wanting to have more of the successful ones - becomes something childish I will be long gone.

You're just wrong, but whatever makes you feel better. If your only view on ROI in life is monetary, then I feel sorry for you. Sports aren't the same to everyone; I spent my life playing and following the game with my father. It was the #1 thing we bonded over for 30 years. Maybe to you, that's nothing but to many those things matter. The Sox may not owe me, directly, anything... but as I said, I sure as hell can express my frustrations with a product that I've invested a lot of time and money into.

This isn't a movie. Comparing those two things is laughable. Baseball is a huge time investment. Fanhood for many is a lifetime of commitment and support to something that they have no control over. It's a community of like minded people; it's a family bond and memory creating activity. It's something to tell stories about for years with your father and grandfather. Movies are something you do to pass an afternoon; baseball is something you do to pass a lifetime.

Yeah, and they took something away about summer that I loved - enjoying White Sox baseball - for 4+ years under the guise that they had some grand plan. Those stars and scrubs teams could be so frustrating, but Jesus Christ at least they won 85 games, 88 games, 89 games. At least they put a sensible product on the damn field, even if the end result was disappointment. At least in August and September I had something interesting to watch. They hoarded the money, and have zero intention of investing it back into the organization. It was all BS. All the White Sox are going to do is return to the level they were once at, when in reality they should be exceeding that pay level because they just saved over 100 million by doing this rebuild.

ha, I've always been critical when criticism is warranted. The one thing I've learned in my life, and taught everyone who has worked for me, is to under promise and over deliver. It's the easiest premise in life but the White Sox fail to do so miserably every year with it. I'm frustrated because I think 95% of the blame in FA lies at the feet of ownership. As you see with all these big contracts, these are ownership deals. The owners are always in the room and etc. My beef with Hahn is he keeps thinking he's going to talk his boss into this, and he leads fans on. My problem is: 1. The Sox saved a shit ton of money. They haven't run a payroll over 100 million since 2015. This team ran a 121 million dollar payroll in 2007! It's 2019 and they are going to go into a season in which they claimed "was time to start trying" with a payroll under what they ran at 13 years ago. That's embarrassing. 2. Sox fans were told repeatedly they'd be rewarded for their patience. When? As I said, if they wanted to use a stop gap in RF and trust that Gio/Kopech/Cease would be TOR guys and invest their big lump into Mookie or Springer? Fine, but who can possibly believe that will happen? I don't think next year has to be the year - as I pointed out, the Astros missed the playoffs the year after they were wild card - but I just want to see something. I feel like the carrot has been dangled in front of my face so long that it's brown and moldy. 3. Why can't the Sox compete for top of the market guys? That narrative is tired. They have a rich owner - even worse an owner who has gotten rich off the back of the fans he doesn't support - and they have a great TV deal. Also what does that even mean the Sox don't owe me shit? What kind of miserable person goes through life with no expectation for things they invest their time and money into? The Sox don't owe me anything, but I certainly have the right to voice my displeasure with their constant BS. Lastly, these last few years have been miserable man. I know I sound like a spoiled Sox fan because for most of my life I didn't have to watch miserable baseball... but this last decade and specifically these last 4 years have been really hard. I love to go to games and record/watch them all on TV when I get time. This team has been flat out tough to watch. I really don't like the modern rebuild in sports; teams don't even attempt to put MLB talent on the field but they still charge MLB prices and etc. I want to watch teams try to win; I don't like watching teams run out non-MLB talent in hopes of competing one day and I think it's nonsense a lot of the time. These organizations have made hundreds and hundreds of millions with these investments; some even billions. There's no reason a team needs to strip it all the way down and put complete garbage on the field as entertainment for four years. I understand why the Sox did it, and I hope it works, but it's been a really hard and painful 4 years for someone like me who just loves the game. I got a lot of enjoyment out of watching the team compete for 20 years, even if they came up short most of the time. At least there was excitement and hope. Sorry for the long post, this is all just frustrating sometimes.

Here's a hypothetical for you to point out the absurdity of everyone citing this MLB pipeline number. Do you think the Sox would rather have given up Steele Walker or Micker Adolfo?

Um, nothing? Sox like Mazara. Some people really like Mazara some don't. And I love everyone constantly citing mlb pipelines prospect ranking lol.

Well maybe they should shut the fuck up then because they have implied two off seasons in a row that they were going to spend big. Sox just saves hundreds of millions by spending and investing nothing into the mlb team for years. Would be nice for this organization to pay back the fans loyalty and patience for once.

I'm so tired of the Machado money narrative from this front office. They act as if Manny Machado was the only player they were going to sign for 5 years. The way they speak about the machado money cracks me up... Apparently abreu got some of the machado money.. so, they were going to let abreu leave if they signed machado? Doubtful. If the Sox were willing to spend 250 million on one player then their multi year budget had to be like 500 million unless they were committed to investing every dollar they could spend for 5 years on one player. Fact is this team is heading for another sub 120 payroll when 15 years ago they were running payrolls around 130.

what Balta fails to mention in his comment is the Astros missed the playoffs the year after they were the wild card.

I dont think hes a bad GM, I just am pointing out that teams miss on their targets a lot... even teams that feel certain they're going to get a guy.

What has Daniels done exactly?

Except plenty of people around baseball think that was a fair deal. High demand? Give me a break.

Yeah, I'm sure if the White Sox missed out on Machado but signed an arm with an ERA of 4.85 ERA last year fand would forgive them.. oh wait, they kind of did that with Nova. Give me a break. The Rangers have had a miserable off season and their fans are reacting the same as Sox fans last year. I

Jack, you were praising Daniels earlier. Guys had a rough off season. Rangers were as confident in Rendon publically as the Sox were in Manny. Hes 0-2 this off-season and things arent looking up.

Yup, thought 7/250 would get it done. Weird.

7 years, 250 million with some of the manny accelerators honestly probably gets this done.

Rendon going for 7 years - I guess that makes sense for why the Dodgers were likely out. Surprised to see the Rangers out with Sherman reporting nothing close to final but Angels are perceived front runner.

I just through the sale thing out there as an absolute joke because of a random tweet about one exec saying maybe the Red Sox would trade sale but probably not. Nothing about the Sox. Sale is never coming back here.