Look at Ray Ray Run

Look at run prevention for top prospects in the PCL compared to the MLB the past decade. It has been more difficult to prevent runs in the PCL than the big leagues- especially for certain teams - for nearly a decade now. Run prevention is, by definition, more difficult when the total runs scored is much greater than that of the big leagues. No one is saying it's easier to be good (when compared to your peers) in the big leagues than it is to be good in the PCL. It's easier to prevent runs though which is why that league ERA is significantly higher than the average MLB ERA. The average ERA in the IL right now is like 6.

His command hasnt been great of late, but once again it's a really tough environment to pitch and he had pretty much outpitched everyone in the league not name mitch keller. Now I guess maybe 2 or 3 guys are right there too. His ERA and K-rate are the dominant parts. It's harder to prevent runs in that league than the big leagues for a young guy imo.

I think you could make a very valid argument that they are worth about the same. I think hand had more control, and hes lefty, so I'd give him the slight edge but it's not much. Colome and Hand are both good to +good but not elite relievers. There really arent very many elite of the elite guys though.

Syndergaard had an ERA near 5 in AAA before his call up. The run scoring environment he's in now is worse than pitching every game at Coors by like 30%

This is nonsense. Before yesterday's start he was the 2nd best pitcher in the entire international league. The league is averaging like 6.5 runs per team per game. Cease had been dominating. Dont scout the stat line solely. Adjust for league and park.

Not really. He had been good for 2 years prior to the trade.

Its takes more than a full year to regain max strength in your wirst or hands if you break it.

he was never over matched.

Command issues a bit for sure, but he's dominating. Make no mistake about it. That league environment is allowing like 6.5 runs a night. Mitch Keller is the only guy in the international league pitching better than cease.

This is the area code games footage they shoot of every player - 20/80 being the prospect people who do it I imagine. Yeah. Tons of big leaguers.

Yes, that spray chart. Im not focused too much on the exact breakdown numbers wise. Madrigal has such a high concentration of balls right to the natural short stop position, that someone has to be there. Which means the only way you could shift is by bringing the third baseman over to the right side... which would be fine against a power hitter, but one of the games best bunters whose job is to just get on base? He would destroy teams with the bunt if 3rd base is not occupied, and based on that spray chart you cant move the short stop... so you cant really shift on madrigal In my opinion

Dont have the raw numbers, but here's his spray chart from last year. https://i.imgur.com/AwlNCec_d Pretty even distribution in the infield.

That is on ground balls only? I believe Harpers pull ground ball rate the past two years is well north of 39%. Edit: Just looked, and Harper pulled 62% of his ground balls in 2018. Harper hits very few grounders (I believe the Rays experimented with a 4 man outfield against Harper in spring) at 36%, and he frequently hits the ball the other way in the air which skews his pull rate.

Agreed, although I dont think the shift can be implemented against madrigal given his great bat control. I obviously agree that with no spike in contact authority, he'll never get to those high averages. He also won't hold a walk rate anywhere near where it is now, in the big leagues, if he doesnt show an ability to hurt pitchers in any way with EBH. I think as an organization, the Sox just want to see madrigal maintain those bat to ball skills and continue to look not overmatched, and they feel he'll grow into enough power that when paired with the new baseballs will help overcome what he lacks in the power tool with his incredible hit tool. As of now, I am happy with how madrigal has looked as I think the power will grow as his wrist continues to gain strength.

Kid has crazy good stuff for this late, just no idea where its going.

He has arguably the best bat to ball skills in professional baseball. If they're not the best, they are very close. That is typically what will lead someone towards batting titles and high averages.

I actually disagree here. All he has to do is add a little authority (not a lot) to his skill set and he becomes as 750/800 slashing 2nd baseman with GG defense and elite base running... while competing for batting titles. That's a consistent 4+ WAR player... well worth his draft slot. Also, let me add that the new baseball will greatly help someone like madrigal.. much more than it would an already powerful hitter. He should benefit significantly from it.

At this point its pitch selection not selling out that is his problem. His hands are so incredible that he can hit anything and everything whenever he wants. What his next step of development should be is identifying those pitches that he can hit with more authority and attacking those as opposed to attacking everything close to the strike zone. He's clearly talented enough to make contact on almost anything, so now he just needs to adjust to attack his pitch.

I understand the disappointment of some fans, but madrigal has been nearly as advertised so far... he just hasn't upped his hit authority to a level that enhances his hit tool to the fullest ability. Madigral has the lowest swing and miss and lowest strike out rate in all of professional baseball. He's not overmatched in the least bit at his level. His elite hit tool has been on full display but it's being dragged down by his lack of power right now. If madrigal goes to the AA and maintains baseballs lowest K and swing and miss rate then his overall production should remain nearly the same as it is now. He shouldnt see much regression between any level because his babip cant go much lower as their is a floor regardless of contact quality. Madrigal has been fine. His k-bb percentage is excellent. His base running and defense are both still excellent. Madrigal is about 5 mph of EV away from hitting 330 regardless of level; assuming he continues to not be overmatched which he has shown no signs of being yet.

I'm pretty sure when anyone says something in regards to rating a player or evaluating a player on here that it is an opinion. If itll clear up the confusion I'll go ahead and sign all my posts with "In my opinion" Going forward. - In my opinion

Sure, and I can make a case to support that. I prefer peaks. It's an argument that can certainly be made - you listed 6 hitters, i said I would take peak Frank Thomas over all of them. You laughed... now after further looking at the numbers it appears a case can be made for him as well as others. Hence how my opinion is subjective, but absolutely in the realm of reasonable thought. On that note, I dont want to debate Frank Thomas as willie May's all night. Tre fletcher is off the board so I no longer care about the draft. Have a nice night.

Fair point certainly. I'd argue Mays had the big advantage of not spending his entire career playing against a league that was 50% users... as well as playing in an era with less talent overall.

Lol it least it stemmed from an Andrew Vaughn discussion so its draftish

Lol yet you're laughing at me saying Frank is better... now its splitting hairs? So what were you laughing about exactly? People can be critical of me for a lot of things, but if I misunderstand or say something wrong I admit it and move on. You didnt understand the discussion, assumed I said Frank was better overall, laughed and were wrong. It's ok to admit it and move on. Frank is absolutely in the argument for top 5 right handed hitter of all-time, as I wrote and which triggered the discussion.

Seriously what are you citing? Do you even know what this discussion is about? No one is arguing Frank Thomas was a better overall player than willie Mays. Frank Thomas was a better hitter though.