Look at Ray Ray Run

This argument is so damn tired and pointless I don't really know what to say anymore. The White Sox have more contracts committed than pretty much every other team too. That's why their payroll is higher in November. November payrolls are completely meaningless; people who cite it as a reason the Sox aren't cheap are exhausting. And yes the figure you cite IS taking into account the expected Arb raises for players like Giolito.

But Danny Duffy would be a horrible innings eater given that he's always hurt. I get he was just an example, but he's an example of the poor strategy the Sox have used in FA for decades now. Danny Duffy isn't a "see, the Sox pushed payroll up to 190 million" celebratory guy. He's a reminder of the poor philosophy this team has operated within during FA forever. At this point, it's really Conforto or bust and that's a scary thought given that I think Conforto gets more than most of us expect.

Why would I want the payroll to go up 10 million dollars by signing Danny Duffy though? That's just the Sox spending on bad players to push up the payroll.

Danny Duffy is terrible.

Jimmy, you know I knew the entire time the Sox weren't signing any of the guys that have signed. I just found it odd that you came by after blasting Sox fans for having expectations after you wrote that is all.

Conforto technically still there, but I found it funny that half of Soxtalk was asking why anyone was dumb enough to think the Sox would be in on Scherzer or Semien.... "Max Scherzer and Marcus Semien should be realistic targets of the club" Maybe because people like Jimmy, and other "insiders", were saying just that? Then Jimmy comes by the forum after those guys and half the other FA's sign and complains that Sox fans expectations were too high and they'll never be satisfied. LOL you honestly can't make that shit up..

Alex Cobb is a starting pitching. Lol you say some of the weirdest things.

58 million. 14.5 per.

He had an 82 wRC+ in 2019 when he played 140 games. He had a 98 wRC+ this year and a 98 wRC+ in 2017. I don't know if he's really improve substantially. His plate discipline is a little better. Just my thoughts.

I care about giving bad players little sums of money because it continues to emphasize that this team hasn't changed the way they operate and will continue to invest small sums in bad players instead of investing one bigger sum in a good player.

I've heard this a lot, but he's not good at it. He averages less than .8 WAR per 162 games in his career. He's the definition of a replacement player. He has a career wRC+ of 80. I expected Leury to be back, so not surprised or angry but giving him 3 guaranteed years over 5 million a year would be crazy for a guy who just isn't good. Being bad but versatile doesn't really make you valuable imo. For a penny pinching organization they certainly love to give away 5-7 million a year to players who suck.

classic white sox. fill a hole with a player who is replaceable by a lot of minimum salaried players and give the player 6-7 million a year as one of their acquisitions. this is how they allocate wages. I wouldn't even hate Garcia at 1 year, maybe with a 2nd year option... but giving him 3 guaranteed years is wild. He was fine last year, homer was great so I give him a pass somewhat, but he's not a good player. His entire career tells us that.

3 years for Garcia, my goodness.

I don't think it would be unreasonable to expect Leury Garcia to perform pretty similarly to his YTD performance through 474 PA's through an additional 90 PA's. Even if he regressed towards his career averages, the overall impact of difference between his career averages and his production in 2021 through the course of 90 PA's is negligible and not meaningful in the given assessment.

Since 2019: Cesar Hernandez - 1565 PA's, 5.9 fWAR, 2.26 per 600 - 94 wRC+, 313 wOBA, 261/326/399 Jean Seguara - 1402 PA's, 5.7 fWAR, 2.43 per 600 - 101 wRC+, 327 wOBA, 282/337/427 Pretty similar players over the past three years by fWAR, and by other metrics close enough where it wouldn't be crazy to think Hernandez could equal Segura's production next year. As I said, I think Segura is likely to be slightly better, but it's not enough of a guarantee to pay him 3 times as much money.

My point on Segura is it's far to possible he's pretty much equal to Leury/Hernandez in value for the Sox to pay him 3 times as much just so they could shed a RP salary. It was my same concern when acquiring Hernandez; that he wasn't a guaranteed upgrade over Leury. If you're going to pay someone 15 million you should be getting a guaranteed upgrade over your 5 million dollar options.

BRef is definitely a little higher on his value but I'll also say that what 26 and 23 year old Jean Segura did is completely irrelevant from the expectations of 32 year old Jean Segura. I tend to prefer fWAR personally but it doesn't mean your point on the 3.7 is not true or accurate.

If Leury had the same amount of AB's last year and stretched out his production equally in those extra 90+ AB's, he would have been worth roughly 2.4 fWAR. Jean Segura was worth 2.5 fWAR. I think Soxtalk has overvalued Jean Segura. From one person calling him an All-Star type player, to others thinking he's a huge upgrade. Segura could very easily be the same player as Leury Garcia/Cesar Hernandez.

Gonna say the same thing I said about Hernandez when we acquired him about Segura. It's no where near a guarantee that Jean Segura outperforms Cesar Hernandez next year. Paying three times the price for Segura than Hernandez all so you can shed Kimbrel's salary is bad process. Segura would be the favorite over Hernandez in terms of expected performance, after normalizing expected PA's, it's 2.1 vs 2.5 via Steamer. wRC+ difference is 4 points (98 vs 102). Those two guys are way too similar for that to be the upgrade over Hernandez imo.

I am not a "Sox can't beat good teams" roof top shouter, and I think the Sox could get better with continued growth... but I also think the idea that if the AL Central gets better the Sox can take a step back by default is very true. The fact is the Sox haven't played good teams very well the last two years. The more good teams they play, if the division improves, the better they need to play in that area. Were the Sox "not a playoff" team in other divisions last year? No, I don't buy that. Were they as good as their +160 RD last year though? No, I don't really feel that way either (although this was partly because of a rash of injuries, but the guys that got injured have a history of getting injured) Fact is, the AL is getting a lot stronger and that means the Sox will have to play better teams. The Sox can't rely on internal development to make up the difference imo. I think the lack of concern about the rotation is crazy. The Sox are going to rely on Reynaldo Lopez next year even if everything goes right with the current starting five. Injuries happen to rotations, and the Sox are not setup well. The Sox have three good starters, 1 question mark, and 1 turd. They're one injury away from having two turds and a big question mark taking up 60% of their staff, or just two turds taking up 40%. The Sox were pretty lucky last year with SP health, in comparison. SP value is going to go up this year as pitchers return to their more normal work load.

Aaron Bummer would approve.

I'm not going to take this conversation off base or any further, but the word abuse is not reserved for the terminology/definition you feel it is.

Yeah, I expected this exact thing to happen. I wasn't caught off guard in the least bit. This is who they are. That doesn't mean I'm not bothered that they continue to operate this way, but I couldn't be any further from surprised than I am.

Oh my.... Abusive relationships can exist in hobbies, entertainment, work, or ones personal life. The term abuse isn't reserved for what you deem to be heinous acts in love-driven relationships. I didn't call it domestic abuse.

Those fans react that way because they're spoiled kids always given the shiniest toys. Sox fans react this way because they're in an abusive relationship who never ever fulfills the words and promises said to them and are constantly misled and lied to. There are huge differences between the two.