poppysox

Welcome.

Vaughn has enough versatility to be useful until the first base position opens up.

Jose in another year will be blocking Vaughn. Saying goodbye to Abreu would be the easy way to clear out payroll. JR would hate it but Tampa Bay wouldn't think twice.

This is how it is supposed to work. Each side has found out what the other side will and won't be amenable to doing. Now each side gets a biggy that they wanted all along. Owners get 14 playoff teams...players get appreciably higher CBT & maybe some additional minimum salary...everybody is happy and it's report to camp time.

I think the WS like him enough but not at the QO level. Not that he will be available for it but I think the FO would be interested in $16M for 2 years. Our familiarity with his health should make us the most aware of what we would be buying.

Yes...really quite unbelievable. Everyone here knows the game. Both sides want the most they can get while not losing their business profits or player salaries. I felt strongly that a deal would happen on Feb.28/Mar1st. Both sides have some stubborn folks on their respective sides. I certainly think it will be settled in a month or two. Common sense will tell us that neither side can actually afford a strike/lockout to go beyond that April 30 date.

You are correct about the K. I am not implying that owners have nothing to lose and didn't say that. I gave the reason why the owners prefer now vs later in the Summer. Every day of these delays costs players, owners, fans, vendors, and hundreds of people who live off the game money that won't be re-earned anytime soon. To be clear...I don't care what the final settlement is because I won't get a nickel from either side. I want to have baseball as soon as I can get it.

Please re-read what I wrote. I very much think the owners are willing to lose a month or two as I stated. What do you mean "that states otherwise"? No one is saying anyone is the bad guy. I am explaining from the owner's perspective that a lockout now is in the owner's best interest. A strike in late Summer would be advantageous to the players. Both sides will lose a ton of money every day that this continues. This can't be handled like kids on the playground saying they can stay out all year if they need to. Neither side will have a game to come back to...at least not a game that has this size pie to divide.

I don't think either side wants to cancel the season. That will certainly be killing the "Goldern Goose" no matter which side you favor. Given the choice, it would be my belief that owners feel they have much more control of the situation now than in the July/August timeframe. I think most people would think this will be worked out in at least 2 or 3 months if not sooner. So from the owner's perspective losing the first two months of the season is much better than losing the last two months.

No...you were told the players have a harder time holding all the players together when this game goes into extra innings. More than 50% of players are not going to gain because they already are not affected by raising the minimum and the CBT max is more a factor for the top guys. You can only miss so many paychecks before it wears thin. I will say the players have held surprisingly strong in the face of a reasonably strong offer. That $700M offered for minimum wage affects a lot of players.

I agree that players would have agreed to play under the old contract until mid to late season. The threat of strike carries much more weight at that time of year.

Same!

Ptatc is correct that urgency can't be created 3 months ahead of time. Backs up against the wall urgency is always the way it is played. Once in a great while, it can happen early if there is zero animosity and that will never be the case with baseball.

I have said several times that neither side can be dumb enough to kill the golden goose. Not so sure about that anymore.

That's the last thing that will fix the problem.

Works really well for the employees but not so well for customers and shareholders.

Not a bad framework Jack. If the bottom salary was 4 million and the top salary is 16 million we would have the parity everyone is seeking. Give a bonus pool based on WAR and a CBT of 240-250. Everyone is happy. The Trouts and Harpers would get their excessive pay by earning it in yearly bonus for production.

I agree. I think you often make some good comments whether I agree with the point you are making or not. I certainly agree that I am definitely in the minority of the ten posters that bother anymore. More importantly, you state whatever your opinion is in a way that is not the bully crap that turns off so many posters. I'll watch with interest how the boys of Summer handle this.

I didn't claim I'm an expert ever. I did claim accurately that I have been the lead negotiator in a number of negotiations with 2 teamster unions. Please understand that what you think of me could not matter less. I tried to explain to you and others that negotiations just work this way. Apparently, you think you have more experience in these matters. I guess it is possible but somehow I doubt it in your case.

Neither side is "doing anything wrong" IMO. This is just the way negotiations go. I agree that I don't think the players have anything major to gripe about but I don't care if they get some of what they want or not. The owners will obviously give a fairly substantial increase to the minimum wage and will ultimately give a bit at the CBT but not much. When the players wanted earlier free agency I said that was just posturing and it was. When the player laundry list was long and silly I definitely didn't side with the players but I always called it posturing. I hate extended playoffs so that is an area I don't agree with the owners. This stuff is not black and white so it needs to be taken into context.

Which point do you disagree with?

I might think it but I wouldn't say it.

I am usually told I'm pollyanna...always looking at the bright side of every issue. Bash the players is a new one. I guess I'm not as easygoing as you thought.

The nights not over.

How so?