poppysox

What players have I bashed? This is just not true. What mistakes are you referring to? Just love to hear yourself talk don't you.

Apparently, those people have reading comprehension issues. Although I have no problem with the owners as a group...I don't feel any need to bash the players. You keep siding with the players on all issues. I've pointed out frequently that both sides claimed that parity was the prime issue. Yet neither side is talking about a minimum team cap. Why are you so easy on the players with that issue?

This is the moment we all knew it would come to. 11th-hour negotiation where both sides really need to evaluate what's important to them. I haven't given up hope.

Two Points: 1) I have stated $700 as my idea of reasonable. If it takes $800 I don't really care...but it does seem steep. 2) When contract negotiations open up very few employees have input into "how they feel." Most employees sit back and "let those guys handle it." When the paycheck doesn't happen the voice of employees starts to be heard. Remember, a very large number of players will gain nothing from these talks. It is very hard to keep those people in line.

It is your perfect right to think the players are in a great position to win this negotiation. I do not. What you consider to be my "arguments" is my honest attempt to show both sides in a fair light." This forum would sure be boring if we all had the same thoughts on these various topics. Unfortunately, some of the members use insults and name-calling to attempt to win what they think of as arguments. Some of the best posters just sit on the sidelines rather than take the disrespectful bombardment so frequently handed out by a few.

No one has tried to demean the skills of the players. The vast majority of workers don't make as much as they are worth. However, I could make a list of overplayed players easier than a list meant to reflect those who are underpaid.

The owners haven't done a thing that surprises me or is wrong IMO. They run businesses and try to hold down costs just like any company in America. The owner's wealth however they achieved it is not relevant to the discussion any more than if I said Giolito comes from a wealthy family. I do believe the players will need to consider how long they can fight the good fight. It is very hard to keep 1000+ people on board compared to 30. Also, these bottom-of-the-tier players are the ones who need spring training to attempt to earn a spot. Yes, I frequently say I don't care who wins because all I want to do is watch baseball. I won't get a bonus if the owners "win." Why is that so hard to understand? I do believe the vast majority of players are very satisfied with their situation and would never hold out because of any injustice they personally feel. These union rants about the poor working man against the tyrannical oppressor owners are just plain dishonest and are used in every union/employee negotiation. Some forum members want to pretend they are Robin Hood taking from the rich and giving to the poor. The only money that is going to change hands is fans paying higher prices.

The reading comprehension you have is just scary.

This is just a lie.

My statement said how they got their wealth was not relevant to labor relations.

What part of don't care who wins did you not understand?

Why...has a new rule just been passed? If you want to call defending a position cheering I guess I can't stop you.

"Pay for pennies"...you must be very rich.

Nobody said anything about hero-worshipping...I said it was not relevant. When people disagree both sides should be free to state their reasons if they choose to do so. The childish name-calling doesn't make someone right in their view. I've stated numerous times I don't care who "wins." I don't really think anyone wins these things. Every time I defend an owner's point of view I am called a lackey or bootlicker or whatever such drivel. Ultimately the fans will pay the cost of whatever cash changes hands. No surprise there.

I bet the players would sign up right away if they were self-made men.

What does this have to do with labor negotiations? This is anti-owner propaganda having nothing to do with today's issues.

Much more valid than the current situation.

They don't make poverty wages for years. They generally get 2 or 3 years then go home as hometown celebrities who sell insurance or tend bar. This labor dispute is about owners and major league-ready players. $600+ starting salaries are very good. Hey...if $700k would get done I say do it. This poverty-wage argument is just silly.

The Walmart clan consisting of Sam Waltons children are worth in excess of $200 billion and they are looked at kindly for creating jobs all across America. Poor JR is only worth 1.6 billion and isn't paying the millionaires that work for him enough in the opinion of some. Warren Buffet has a personal fortune of $160 billion and controls ownership of Berkshire Hathway with a value of 536 billion yet doesn't involve himself in employer, union negotiation. Baseball ownership has offered a $60K increase to the baseball starting wage of $570K and it is talked about like the owners made some kind of insulting offer. The sport and entertainment industries live on a different planet than those people trying to make a living in the real world.

The game exists because for a hundred years players and owners have built "America's Pastime." The current players and owners are both reaping the rewards of many other contributors to its popularity. I hope they don't manage to screw it up.

No surprise that this is going down to the 11th hour. The surprise to me will be if both sides are dumb enough to kill the golden goose.

No...mostly bonds.

Those working for such a company should be grateful that they have such a stable workplace with a reliable paycheck and good benefits. There are many people working for companies with little job security and the boss from hell. If you really have the skills that qualify you for a higher paycheck and are feeling underpaid and underappreciated...get another job. I realize baseball is an odd deal. You can't just pick up and leave because the owner owns your soul until you qualify for free agency. If you are an average payer you probably don't ever get to the point of the high-priced guys. If you are that average guy (Leury Garcia) you settle for a 3-year contract at $5.5M and pinch yourself to see if this is some kind of a dream.

I have a young friend of the family who was drafted in the 13th round by Oakland approximately 5 or 6 years ago. His career in baseball was the typical 4 years and had TJ surgery and was done. He wouldn't trade a minute of his professional baseball career. As a person, I would always choose to work in a job I liked rather than one that paid more as long as the bills could get paid. I am not at all in favor of the low minor league salaries as I've stated elsewhere. I've spoken in favor of raising the minimum starting salary as well. The low end of the baseball pay scale is not at all where my frustration lies.

I am "rooting" for this thing to get settled and don't care who is perceived to be the winner. If you would actually read my postings I have said repeatedly that I hope the minimum is increased substantially so I have no ax to grind with the newbie. I don't favor a fast track for free agency and I want my management to spend money prudently. By prudently I mean that money wasted today will not be available tomorrow. I have also expressed a preference for creating a team minimum payroll (my example was $70M) as I think it would improve parity as opposed to raising the current CBT which will IMO further disparity between teams. Lastly, I think higher pay for minor leaguers is very justified but is not part of this contract negotiation. It is just brought into the discussion to make the millionaire/billionaire argument seem more out of balance.