YourWhatHurts

A tie game in the 9th on the road is not a typical closer situation even though sometimes you see it. Again we need 6 outs. Can you really trust Hendriks for 6 outs? Most closers go less than 2 IP per game. Also Marshall came in today in the same situation and temporarily saved the game. The one sorta-complaint I had watching it live was bringing in the garbage man to put the game out of reach. Instead it actually worked. We don't get to that spot if Marshall doesn't come through bigtime there.

I think TLR is probably thinking that his 2 best guys available are Bummer and Hendriks. You need 6 outs minimum to win so stretch those 2 guys and then deal with the rest of it later. If Bummer gets that GIDP and is out of the inning, then the Sox score top of the 10th and Hendriks comes into the game with a clean inning, it looks like absolutely the correct move. And really we were pretty close to having that happen. As I said before, bottom line, if this team is going to win, both Bummer and Hendriks need to be on. But I do think Hendriks is suffering from not getting regular work and also from having the pressure of a tag on him instead of just going out and pitching. The Sox should state they will go closer by committee and take the pressure off of Hendriks, and pitch him more, and then go that route. I think that would yield better results overall.

Yes I think I can assume that. Hendriks gets wild a lot, even if it isn't showing up in the BB column. He gets wild in the zone and has difficulty getting 2 pitches over at the same time. In a tie game bottom of the 9th in that stadium vs. that offense he is only 1 hanging breaking ball away from a loss. And with those corners you can't even spot a FB up and out because someone with some pop can just extend their arms a bit and knock it out. Wildness generally seems to come from being afraid to miss. 9th in Yankee Stadium vs. that offense and he's still going to be afraid to miss if he's not feeling good in the bullpen before coming out. As someone said elsewhere, he doesn't want to just groove it down the middle of the plate. You need both stuff and control to get out of that situation. Clean inning or not, IMO the Hendriks that pitched today most likely blows the game anyway.

Right. Also he could steal off of Hendriks too. If Hendriks walks him, he can still steal just the same.

I mentioned that (to the chagrin of many others) in that long offseason thread where for some odd reason, SoxTalk was all happy about the idea of throwing top market value at a FA closer. The guy who couldn't get the ball over in the playoffs is still going to show up on the mound here at least some of the time. The worry now is the contract. Can be be a quality-if-overpaid closer? Hopefully because he's here now. But so many people were way too excited to sign this guy and I have no idea why. I also don't know whether this was any of Hahn's intention at all. Maybe Hahn had different thoughts for the closer spot but the TLR hire pushed the team to a Hendriks signing. I've read those rumors and to me it is believable.

Bummer: ground ball single basehit; INT BB to set up double play; then weak groundball in the IF which instead of a GIDP turns into an IF single. That actually wasn't that bad of inning at all. He got 2 groundballs and that's the way the ball bounces sometimes. Meanwhile Hendriks came in and couldn't hit the broadside of the barn. Now you can look at this as (1) he would have come in even during a clean inning and still been wild, or (2) maybe he was just wild because he was rattled by the bases being loaded and would have shown better if it was a clean inning. But if (1) then he's still starting off the inning with a leadoff walk, then that's even worse, because Bummer got a groundball, and at least Bummer forced the opposition to put the ball in play to get a hit. So Bummer throwing a groundball that gets through the IF is still a better bet than a guy who can't find the zone at all. And if (2) then if Hendriks gets rattled by a bases juiced situation then why the fuck is he a closer and why is he getting paid so much money? As a person who will gleefully bash TLR all day long, I do have to say there is nothing to see here. Game 1 was on TLR. Games 2 and 3 were on the team. We should be leaving 1-2, not 0-3 here, but this game isn't the one TLR cost us.

LOL then who do you bring in with the bases loaded? Eventually someone will have to come into the game with the bases loaded. If it can't be the guy who is paid like the best player in the bullpen then who can it be? It's also not a save situation. To win that game we need 6 outs anyway, not 3. If we use Hendriks for the 9th and he blows it, people would have said TLR should have stayed with Bummer anyway.

If "Ricky's boys don't quit," what do Tony's boys do?

I've said this before about Hendriks but really, use him like you use Bummer. Give him regular work. Bring him in the 7th, 8th, even the 6th if you have to. Use your best players first. Keep them fresh. Apparently in TLR's world this mindset is true for Leury Garcia but not the big money closer. If at the end of the day you have fewer runs than the opposing team and you've lost because of it, but you've used all your best players in the toughest situations and you've tried your best, then that kind of loss is a lot easier to deal with. TLR is like the hunter who goes home hungry with a broken arm because he figured that if he could make the kill with his pocket knife then he would still have bullets in his rifle for later when he needed them.

There is a ton of talent in this bullpen. If you can't see that then you must not have eyes.

Every top reliever in baseball should be prepared to come into the ballgame with the bases loaded and throw the ball over the plate. The guys who should most be expected to do that are the closers making the big cash. Hendriks is one of the highest paid RPs in baseball. Certainly he should have been up to the task. I am as against TLR as anyone else, but I don't have a problem with how he managed the 8th or 9th. Bummer vs. the lefty and he got his groundball but it was an IF hit. We needed a K so we brought in the big money closer to get it. Both are logical moves. As far as not starting the inning with Hendriks, let's not pretend he's been a sparkling Mr. Clean so far either. I could clearly see the reasoning for trusting the ground baller Bummer over Hendriks right now. But when Bummer didn't get the job done, Hendriks was the guy. The bottom is that if this pen is going to be any good at all, both Bummer and Hendriks need to get it done. Both of them.

Also Engel please not Engle

Yeeeeeeeeesssssssss!

TEX also is one of the most obvious. One thing to consider also is the value of at least a somewhat interested fanbase this year from the perspective of a team that has lost money. With capacity numbers increasing the teams who think they can draw fans further into the season will probably try to do so. Owners want their money back.

The Angels will be in denial right up until the deadline. We really need to make a move earlier, which is why a smaller move for a reliever makes more sense. That said, if it's a low enough price Iglesias is a nice target. But I think he will be widely targeted and probably expensive even if his numbers aren't good right now. And if he goes on a streak up to the deadline he's a pricey player and might cost us one of our most interesting guys in Kannapolis plus more in a bidding war. IMO it's better to target the most obvious sellers. BAL, SEA, PIT, COL, AZ these teams will admit defeat early. I am not certain about MIA either because they are still in it, they made the playoffs last year, they are trying to build, and this is Jeter's team not Loria's team. Jeter might think about his Marlins the same way Karnisovas was thinking about the Bulls going into the trade deadline. If they sell Matte makes sense but with Robert and Engel coming back it only makes sense if the price is low. If we are spending capital we need more of a longer term solution.

It certainly seems that the DH will be coming to the NL in the next CBA. 6 year players who are MLB-ready or near-MLB-ready now and who are on the league minimum with a full slate of options left always have tons of value. Even if they are LF/1B/DH types. Owners always love that $$$ savings over a FA alternative.

Burger is one of the most obviously available trade candidates in baseball. He's probably the most obviously blocked prospect in an organization which is one of the most obvious buyers in baseball. I will guess that every seller in baseball has been watching Burger in all of his ABs trying to determine (if they don't already believe they know for sure) whether Burger's swing will play against MLB velocity. And I will also guess that if any of them believe that it will, Hahn is already getting calls, or at least, those organizations are already talking about potential deals for him. If you believe that the swing/bat will play against MLB velocity, he is probably one of those guys you want to move on quick before he raises his value a lot more.

Burger + Stiever + Thompson + Rodriguez? Yes or No? That's a decent haul IMO especially considering the injury history, but it's fair and the gamble could be worth it for the Sox, given how much the corner OF situation would improve. Again it only works if you think pretty highly of at least 1 of Burger/Stiever.

Burger just homered again. Let's say Hahn called up right now and offered Haniger for Burger + Stiever + Jose Rodriguez. Do the Mariners say no? And does Hahn actually offer that much? If you believe in the Burger, and you like Stiever's upside, that's a pretty decent haul IMO.

Yeah I don't think we can get a good enough CF to make it worth the price. Even if the Sox started Billy Hamilton every day and he never got another hit, damn can that man throw the leather out in CF. Hamilton is already here and at least would make it easier to put Vaughn and Eaton on the corners until Engel gets here. To get any kind of real 2-way difference maker would probably cost a ton, and with Engel as an ideal backup and Robert as an ideal long-term starter, it just doesn't make sense to do that kind of deal where we give up a ton. I think if there is a deal to be made it is just for a LF or RF who can add to the mix of Eaton & Vaughn. That would improve the corner OF rotation and keep Leury out of it. Then Leury & Hamilton can handle CF until Engel or Robert is available.

Ouch. I thought Gallo had a good rep. Maybe he's bringing his bat to the field, or glove to the plate (probably both; hitting with this glove & catching with his bat).

Here's another potential trade idea: Ross Detwiler again Ross Detwiler Stats | Baseball-Reference.com How many balls would need to be in the bag in order to pry him from the Fish? We can use a different garbage man at the front of our pen. Marshall's salary will cause him to clear waivers. We can talk to him, ask him to go to Charlotte and work things out, and if he is willing to do so, then we may be able to call him up later in case we have more garbage man problems.

There isn't a snowballs chance in hell I would make that deal. The Brewers got 2018 Anthony Swarzak from the Sox for Ryan Cordell. They also got 2018 Joakim Soria from the Sox for Kodi Medeiros and Wilber Perez. If this team replaces Marshall with 2018 Anthony Swarzak, demotes Foster for depth purposes because he has options and replaces him with 2018 Joakim Soria, the pen will look a whole lot better. And we don't even need another shitty OF anyway. Gallo is hitting .211/.362/.368 right now. Offensively he is a turd. Don't we have enough automatic K's in the lineup already? Why trade Kelly or Stiever, much less both, for a guy who right now isn't any better than Danny Mendick? Personally I want to see an Adam Plutko deal, and I already mentioned that in another thread. He's having a nice season with BAL and was acquired IIRC for cash. He knows the division. Pick him up for one of our many fringey AAA players and put him in the front of the pen and make him our new garbage man in place of Marshall. Then, go out and get a difference maker in the pen to handle some late inning situations. Again, we shouldn't have to give up more than one of our fringey AAA depth pieces. I bet we could get a new spot starter/front-end garbage man and a kind of flukey setup man who is having a nice year right now for 2 of Rutherford/Gonzalez/Sheets. I also bet Burger gets us Kimbrel from the Cubs with at least some salary relief if we trust that guy (I don't). In terms of a nutty deal, I wonder if the M's would do Haniger + White for Burger + junk just to cut bait on that $22M or so owed to White up until his first buyout (I bet they would). I would add Haniger to this team but not Gallo. Haniger has 2 seasons left under team control after this one and his arb base is pretty low due to the injuries.

TLR takes all the swagger out of this team. The loss coming today in on Cease and the offense vs. Cole, which is just fine. It's fine to get beat by the better team on that day. The only time that's not fine is if it is the playoffs, but in the regular season, that's what happens. The loss yesterday wasn't this team getting beat: you need to have your best players available, and be beat with those guys on the field, in order to really get beat. TLR put Marshall in for the 8th, then he barely got out of it, then again in the 9th. Losing with your worst pitcher on the mound is inexcusable and it just feels bad because we didn't try hard enough. Losing with Marshall on the mound vs. the Yankees in the 9th feels just like an inning-ending GIDP that only occurs because the guy who hit into it dogged it all the way down the line, and would have been safe if he just hustled. TLR is managing this team the same way Adam Dunn ran the bases here and the same way Nick Swisher played here in any manner, etc. It's like TA and Abreu, Yermin, Moncada, Eloy when he's here, etc., they bring this excitement, energy, and most of them bring the hustle. TA and Abreu always bring the excitement and the hustle. And that gives this team swag. TLR is dogging it. He kills the excitement, kills the hustle, kills the swagger. TWTW: I know what this means, seriously. Hawk talks about TWTW. Ozzie bought that excitement, that hustle, that energy, that swagger. Ozzie helped build that TWTW in 2005. This year, TLR is killing all of that. This TLR team has no TWTW because TLR has no TWTW. And the corpse running the show couldn't care less about any of it. The Sox under TLR and the dorf is like a sundae with a piece of dogshit on it. Eat it and like it or just pass on all of it. Holy shit I hate everything on this team from the manager on up. Ugh. And no swagger. This team is going to be hard-pressed to avoid a sweep in New York. Even if they take the finale they will leave without swagger. Great young up-and-coming teams are supposed to go into Yankee Stadium on the road full of swagger, and they are supposed to prove their selves there with their play, and then they are supposed to leave feeling like they proved how good they were, and go on thinking they're the team to beat. That's what the really good up-and-coming teams do. And I feel like we would be doing that now, if not for TLR. He's the one guy on the field and in the clubhouse holding the whole thing back.