YourWhatHurts

It seems like Burnes has more pitches and mixes things up well, and can often spot that cutter. The FB can be overpowering and he can also go to breaking stuff. it does look nice. When I look at Gio though, I know there are things that the hitter sees that I can't see. Lucas can get away with things other pitchers (like bad high changeups) just never get away with. He clearly is surprising them, a lot. He really gets those guys off balance and he loves to pitch up. I just love watching him work guys over, and right now he's got 3 pitches. Katz will have him using the CB again and he'll be up, down, in and out. I think the best is yet to come from him. And I think in Lucas' case the "tv image" of the stuff doesn't do justice to what the hitters see with him.

Bet what? IMO there should be a gang bet. Giolito's Gang vs. Burnes Gang. I'm with Lucas. I say he's better than Burnes in 2021 and in 2022.

I don't think there's any way to say Burnes stuff is better than Gio's. I really don't see that at all. That said, I still think Burnes has a great chance of being a #2 type and I'd love to have him. I love Stiever and Kelly, and I would be willing to trade both of those guys for him. Dalquist I am also very excited about and I might even be willing to bite that bullet of all 3. And I wouldn't like it, but I think Burnes is excellent still. I'd rather take Woodruff by a bit but that would cost Kopech, so no. If I had 10 Madrigals, I'd give up all 10 for Burnes. I don't even care. Heuer I love and think is special, but he's not a SP, so I'd trade him for Burnes also. But yeah, I don't see how you can look at 2019 of Gio and Burnes and even say for half of a second that Burnes trade value is anywhere near as high as Gio's. As far as ability, they can both be top guys, but Gio I think has a FB-CH combo that I already like better than what Burnes has, and I'm very excited to see him work with Katz going forward.

What pitch does Burnes have that is better than Gio's changeup?

Burnes is a multi-year win-now piece with greater (IMO) ability to impact the game. Burnes >>>>>>>> the average FA SP in his salary range Madrigal vs. $6-8M per FA 2B OTOH? That gap isn't so wide regardless which side is favored. Drafting the wrong guy at #4 and then refusing to trade him even if it benefits the team is trumpian/reinsdorfian logic: make a mistake? Then take it to the grave.

Then you counter with Madrigal + Stiever + Kelly or Madrigal + Stiever + Heuer + Thompson

Yes, and Madrigal also. Personally I would rather trade Madrigal than Kelly or Stiever, and if Madrigal were on another team, I'd trade him straight up for Dalquist + Thompson. But hey if there is another team that think Madrigal is a centerpiece, I say let's do that deal.

I'd do Madrigal + Kelly + Heuer for sure. I'm not so sure why MIL would want that. Of course mainly that's because I don't love Madrigal and maybe they do. Also I want to point out that MIL always wants to get an athletic defensive-first SS with a quality hit tool with little power potential in any deal. That's similar to what Segura was before he developed, it's Alcides Escobar, it's their current starting SS, etc. I think Yolbert Sanchez makes a lot of historical sense as a 4th piece.

Ozzie gave out his phone number live on air on CSN during a pregame or postgame show. Anyone watching could have had that.

I think a Burnes package realistically costs something like Madrigal + Kelly + Bailey or Stiever + Dalquist + Thompson + Sanchez. In a perfect world the Sox could get him for Madrigal + Dalquist + Thompson + Sanchez. But if there's any truth to it I think Stiever is definitely in it. He's a MIL type, also from the area. And if I'm MIL I want Stiever + Kelly + Dalquist + Bailey from the Sox, and want nothing to do with Madrigal. But I wouldn't make that deal if I was the Sox. Maybe Stiever + Kelly + Dalquist + Sanchez, and that would be a serious haul; that's still 3-4 MLBers IMO.

If things were really so bad for them then they should have just nontendered Bryant and still brought back Lester on the cheap and worked on a Rizzo extension. As it is they are going to have to pay Bryant something close to $20M or whatever it is unless they can manage to trade him for salary relief and a bag of balls.

James Shields, that's all I have to say. He was getting how much from the Sox, not even counting what the Padres were still paying him? Even if the Cubs were in full rebuild mode, having Lester at $5M or less to eat innings and help teach the young players is a great move. Surely the owners don't need to pocket everything.

I'm not sure what the Cubs are doing but their rotation was trash even before they traded Darvish, and now it is even worse. If they are going to try to win at least some games, bringing Lester back will help. I mean that rotation is baaaad. It's worse than the Sox when they started the rebuild. Maybe Hendriks can be like our Q but there's not even a Giolito and Lopez in there behind him, and no Kopech in the high minors. They have Marquez who is probably a RP IMO. Cubs fans are justified for being pissed about not bringing Lester back for multiple reasons, including 1) not trying hard enough to actually win games, 2) not seeming to pick a clear direction for a rebuild (why has Darvish been the only guy traded?), and 3) even in a full rebuild year, you need someone like Lester around to eat up some of those innings and help out the pen a bit.

lol He was probably telling her all about his dick but thought she wasn't responding because she didn't believe him. Maybe he thought that she thought that rumors of a dick like he was describing can't be real, they're like Bigfoot or something, so he sent the proof. BTW this is a great thread.

By the way sending dick pics to reporters is much less offensive than drunken driving. Even though yall have been brainwashed to think otherwise, dick pic DMs don't kill people.

Oh come on, like you haven't sent a few dick DMs here and there yourself.... I bet former Chicago sports reporter Sierra Santos alone knows what the junk of half of Soxtalk looks like.

I'm not upset about missing out on Musgrove. I don't want to give up much for that guy anyway, especially with so many FAs still on the board. As for the Padres, this is the kind of deal that could really hurt them if they miss on one of the guys they gave up. They really didn't need to make this move but they did. That said, they did get a nice IP insurance policy. As others have noted, the much-ballyhooed Padres rotation will have a lot of injury questionmarks in it, and Musgrove helps add some extra innings insurance.

It depends on who you sign though. The Sox have been signing the wrong guys, and the one "right" guy they signed out of these lesser-known types, they didn't even give their selves a chance to professionally evaluate inside of a real baseball game context because they traded him beforehand.' I don't have an issue with Yolbert. If he turns into Jose Iglesias then that's a great outcome. The Tigers gave up Avi Garcia as a very good prospect, plus a bit more IIRC, to get him, and Boston used him to get Peavy. And for a career, he's been a quality player overall. OTOH the Sox always have all these Mieses and Comas types who never turn out to be shit. I think the bottom line is that the Sox need to do a better job all the way around. They're great signing big name Cuban defectors, but other than that, they pretty much suck. Just compare the Sox to the Cubs. The Cubs are better there. Many team are. The Padres are just one of many teams better than Sox in Latin America. And anyway, Yolbert is also a Cuban. We wouldn't even have him if he wasn't a Cuban. We'd just have another Mieses and another Comas in his place.

lol thankfully that word has about a zillion different meanings. Regardless Bauer isn't pulling out now. He's already balls deep into this process.

Because he's a solid #2/#3 SP who can sit comfortably behind Giolito. Also because this organization has a long history of standing behind and either directly enabling or turning the other way and allowing oft-despised loudmouth players and members of the front office/management/coaching staff who want to make scenes in the media. Also because Bauer, who has never pitched like a true ace in a 200+IP season but still wants to be paid like one, should probably sign a 1-year deal and "prove it" inside of a situation that is most amenable to him. The Sox have an excellent bullpen, an excellent offense, and excellent young MLB-ready or near-MLB-ready SP depth behind their rotation veterans, making for a situation overall that should give Bauer a lot of protection and help him pad up his stats going into FA. Also because unlike Cincy and Cleveland, Chicago is in the spotlight, and Chicago has an easy path to the playoffs, and there's no better segue into FA than a quality performance in the playoffs coming off of a quality season, for a team that has been nationally touted since the season began. I think Bauer should sign this deal: $15M guaranteed in 2021 with a 2-year Mutual Option for $90M ($45x2) attached to a $15M buyout that is activated if either side declines, and which can also be paid out as $3M per year over 5 years from 2022-2026. PS if the real Bauer actually signs this deal then I should get to **** his agent. Thanks.

It's much smarter to hold onto the extra money and wait for a difference-making SP to become available before the trade deadline than it is to spend all of the resources pre-season on a guy who might only be worth another 1-2 extra wins over in-house and MiLB contract options between the beginning of the season and the trade deadline. At the deadline that available $$ can go much further when it's only paying part of a contract, and another trading team may be willing to pick up the rest. OTOH if Tanaka will take 1 year $15M then the Sox should do that and forget the idea of a both an extra bat to block Vaughn and a back-end SP. The Sox really don't need any special reason to start Vaughn in AA given the fact that he has never played above A ball, and I would guess a big part of the interest in another bat is having a stronger excuse for blocking Vaughn.

Madrigal + Foster/Marshall + Thompson for Marco Gonzales... does SEA do that? I'm okay with that package in principle. I'm also probably okay with a Jon Gray package because I don't think that has a big prospect cost. Also could be okay with a deal for one of NYY's extra back-end MLB-ready SPs.

Right, go down. There's like 5 people on this site who think you're smarter than a tin can full of rocks.

Dude you can post like 600 less times a day? You'd still lead the whole site in posts per minute even if you did.

I remember people here were crapping on some Score show host or whatever who said that the Sox never planned on spending big money or giving out long-term deals or signing top-tier FAs this offseason. Some people took shots at him saying he had no sources while slurping up the food guys. Well, who was really right? By my estimation, "no source" Score is correct and the food frauds are still frauds.