YourWhatHurts

Not sure but it would be an emotional conversation for all involved IMO. Everyone in it besides Fry I can see multiple execs on both sides loving and pushing for. Ballsy and dangerous.

I'd just be interested in knowing 1) whether the Sox ownership would be willing to add a contract like Sale's regardless of the cost, and 2) if so, what would it cost us just to take it on and nothing else? They can have Reynaldo and Collins for that, and some filler. If Sale returns to form that deal is legal armed robbery with a pistol whipping that the judge sees and just winks and smiles at.

Check out his numbers this year though. I'm not saying he'll continue to be that guy but he definitely didn't suck this year.

Something that really cannot be argued is that the Sox, currently, are almost certainly either at the peak of their prospect depth / farm system quality right now, or will be between now and next year's offseason, likely depending on what we do in terms of trading between now and then. We will be: 1) picking lower, in the draft; 2) have less draft pool money; 3) have less INTL money; 4) will pick lower on the waiver wire; 5) pick lower in the Rule-5 order; 6) will be keeping 40-man roster spots open for AAAA/fringe MLBers and "win-now" veterans / bench and pen pieces instead of using them for prospects, so there is less room on the 40-man; 7) we will generally be attempting to trade prospects for vets instead of trading vets for prospects ... ...for probably the next 5+ seasons consecutively. We ***really*** need to manage our assets best, right now. If we don't, we will probably fuck up both our win-now window and fuck up our ability to transition from the coming win-now period to a Cardinals-like spot-patch contention period after (where we can make adjustments year to year but still play competitive baseball for several years after our extended young guys' contracts end). That transition is important because if we don't manage our assets well now then we will probably be looking at a need to fully rebuild when our Moncada/Robert/Eloy/etc. group gets to the end of their deals, ala the Cubs current situation. Right now, as I count it, we have Kopech, Crochet, Kelly, and Stiever all IMO as blue chipper SP prospects, regardless of where they are nationally ranked, and Dunning, Thompson, Dalquist, Lambert, and Vera as as very good SP prospects also who very likely have an MLB future and aren't just the kind of fringe guys that we're used to. Vaughn is an elite hitting prospect and the best 1B prospect in baseball, and one of if not the best pure hitting prospect in baseball. Then there is still maybe some life in other areas, like perhaps Collins, Rutherford, Burger, etc. We still have a good system that may actually be a bit underrated ATM. Let's not just piss it away. In all likelihood if we manage it very well it will gradually diminish to a bottom third system over the next 2 or 3 years, and after that, it will really be a struggle to keep it on the high side of the bottom third instead of the middle or lower portion of the bottom third.

I think we probably undervalue Lopez's trade value and Red Sox fans probably undervalue Benintendi's trade value. But I think Lopez isn't enough for Benintendi and we would need to add more, and as a centerpiece, Lopez isn't enough to be that. I think Dunning for Benintendi is a fair trade but I think it's one that would likely hurt the Sox. Benintendi has 2 years left and Dunning could be a workhorse overachiever. I do think the Red Sox would have interest in Lopez if they are planning on rebuilding/retooling/whatever for another year.

Flores is basically a roster spot. He's an ultimate fringe guy. Gonzalez really is about as valuable as Charlie Tilson or Ryan Cordell ATM. They're just 2 names that have to be kept on a 40-man or otherwise exposed to waivers. I don't think they move the needle for anyone. I definitely wouldn't trade Cease for Nimmo, both because of the history of not being a great player and also only 2 years team control left. IMO if you trade Cease, a guy like Clint Frazier is the guy you want to target. Get an MLB ready guy with 4+ years control who has already shown he can play, or an MLB-ready top prospect that is ranked very high. I'm not sure who else is out there but there's probably someone else. If the Rays wanted to do Cease for Arozarena that could work, but I don't think they're trading him. I think maybe a smaller deal like Dunning for Mitch Haniger fits the bill better, most likely. Maybe Charlie Blackmon or Starling Marte. I will guess Starling Marte or Haniger if we make a trade and it's a much lesser piece than Cease. Cease only goes for a serious impact guy or a top prospect /young MLBer type I think.

I put no credence in what fangraphs says about prospects. They had Jimmy Lambert as a 35 FV before the season and Yermin ranked highly. It couldn't be more obvious to me that they don't watch these guys play and the sources they rely on probably aren't that great. From what I've seen on the mound, Colas looks like about a $1M international FA guy as a pitcher. As a hitter I'm not sure but he seems pretty advanced for his age, and this is all the chubby Colas. In shape Colas is probably much better. I see why Colas isn't super exciting because he's not super exciting as a pitcher and as a hitter maybe we are lacking info. But there is raw talent there and I think he looks like a good signing for about $1.5M or less. Remember that most of these guys don't make it at all, and the ones who do will take leaps beyond where they are now. I wouldn't care about what the fangraphs guys say though.

No way in hell would I trade Cease for Benintendi. I surely hope the Sox aren't trying to dump Cease off like he's garbage. Be patient. There's a lot of talent there. We will see what the Sox do, but technically, all they have to do is sign 2 of Bauer/Stroman/Paxton to make Cease a solid #5 with big upside with Dunning, Kopech, and Stiever behind him. That's a pretty awesome position to be in.

Also we could probably get Starling Marte cheap from the Marlins. Mendick for Marte, who says no? I would considering doing that to give Danny a shot somewhere, if they were interested, even though I think Danny is going to be a good player who will build better value than that if given enough playing time.

I'm a proponent of the Joc/Engel platoon and a big part of the reason why is I like the combination of low base salary + likely 1 guaranteed year + no draft pick loss + no need to trade prospects. It's kind of nice to have a position open which you can temporarily fill while you just wait it out for the perfect fit. I really don't like blowing prospect capital and payroll headroom immediately to try to fill every hole. Inevitably when you do that someone fails and then you end up stuck. But of course I think a Joc/Engel platoon would be fairly productive and will make the OF defense better. I am also definitely not on board with a Springer signing. We aren't desperate to add power, and especially we're not desperate enough to add a longterm deal at big money to that kind of player profile which typically falls off quicker. Markakis is another short-term option. People here are talking about Conforto and Nimmo but maybe if the price comes down or in FA. Under-the-radar move: maybe we can swing a deal for Clint Frazier? It might have to be a 3-way. Not sure I'd want to give up Cease but it would probably cost that straight-up.

Because Sox: -We sign Joc to a small 1 year deal with a 2nd year option; Joc/Engel is the platoon -James Paxton is the big signing on a 1 year reclamation deal -McCann is gone; Colome is gone, though Sox pay lip service but he's out of their price range -Nomore Nontenderazarra -Yolmer comes back on a new deal -Leury is bought out and I'm pissed about it because he's well worth the money and is an ideal bench option, but gotta save the $$$ -Someone's formerly good reliever (i.e. McGee, Wade Davis, etc.) is in camp trying to win a job, and maybe 2 of these guys -Sox make a smaller deal that also pisses me off, e.g. they trade someone like Zack Collins and give up on him for a shitty veteran back-end starter who is only slightly more enticing than the Gio Gonzalez signing was -Sox sign 1 vet reliever for $6M or less

Right he will take his "principles" to the grave with him and that's why the vast majority of Sox and Bulls fans in Chicago will celebrate the day when all of that will finally be buried in a hole, despite whatever Soxtalk's programmed opinion on the matter is.

I'm not sure the Mets would trade DeGrom anyway. It's important to understand though that DeGrom -- as great as he is -- has a contract that a lot teams won't take on regardless. And new owners especially, but really no owners, want to pay part of a guy's salary to make him go away when they already know they don't have to. The difference between say the diminished-stuff Greinke deal or the Shields deal, etc. was that the GMs were going to have to pay down the contract anyway just to move him. With DeGrom, the new owner won't have to, so he probably will not want to, but that contract isn't very team friendly. He can opt out after 2022 and is guaranteed $71M for 2021-22, and then if he doesn't he's guaranteed at least $103.5M for 2021-23 because it doesn't look like there is a buyout on the last year. 2021 33 New York Mets $35,500,000 2022 34 New York Mets $35,500,000 may opt out after 2022 season 2023 35 New York Mets $32,500,000 2024 36 New York Mets *$32,500,000 $32.5M Team Option I think he would bring back a haul but it definitely would not be Sale-like. When you look at a package of Cease + Dunning + Thompson/Dalquist/Vera + Lopez for DeGrom + Familia (salary dump incentive) ... it's hard to imagine another team willing to take on all of that salary even with the opt out both willing and wanting to beat that IMO. I'll update the fantasy a bit: DeGrom - Giolito - Bauer/Stroman - Keuchel - Rodon / FA project as a bridge to Kopech

I thought Ricky has managed the pitching staff well so far. I'm not upset with his management except for putting EE in today. BTW, in theory we could trade for Joe Maddon.

Agree. Also I really hate putting the nastier guys in first and then putting in easier guys after. Crochet should be later. I do like the idea of mixing up L/R on the opposition if possible. We have enough pitching to do it, which is why it's such a shame we can't rely on Rodon. We could go Foster for 2, Rodon for 2, Marshall the 5th, Bummer 6th, Heuer 7th, Crochet 8th, Colome 9th.

He probably means for both teams??

I don't care about ESPN's k-zone. I am talking about robo umps. You put sensors at the middle of the plate. There is a 2D plane or "box" if you want to call it that is about 0.1mm thick at the center of the plate which is where the pitch is read. Then I would imagine the players would have to have sensors placed on their uniforms or maybe taped to their body or something. But then everyone has a strikezone as soon as they step into the box that registers in the middle of the plate.

Also re: this discussion there needs to be a system that automatically rules on check swings. IMO there should be some sort of light behind the plate where the ump is, and it lights up green for ball and red for a strike. If a play is dead there can be another signal, or maybe if the play is dead the light is solid, but if the play is live the light will blink. It would be nice if all of the players on the field knew immediately whether the pitch or swing was a ball or strike, and whether the play was live or dead, all of the time.

You don't need a full cube of a zone, just a 2D plane in the middle of the plate. We still need a full plate for plays at home and as the first point of fairness like fouling balls off of the plate etc. But the strikezone does not have to be a large cube.

Umps are dogshit this year, worse than normal. RoboUmps cannot come soon enough. Get these clowns out of there. I'm sick of watching them ruin the game and then make scenes on the field like their authority is somehow deserved. Technologically we as a human race have evolved to the point where we no longer need to rely on quacks like Joe West and Angel Hernandez for anything. Re: the strikezone, that is very easy. Put sensors in the exact middle of the 3-dimensional plate. Any pitch that knicks any part of the exact middle of the 3D plate is a strike. Keep in mind, as Hawk says, the batters box belongs to the hitter and he can still move around all he wants in it.

McCann is going to be like this offseason's Wheeler in a way, where Realmuto is the clear #1 guy, but the years and total money he will be looking for will bring bidding down to only a handful of teams, but then McCann is the clearcut #2 guy, and he will demand much less money and fewer years, so he will be much more attractive and will have a lot of suitors. I expect the top of the catching market to be Realmuto, McCann, and Vazquez via trade, and most teams looking for a C will think McCann is the best fit, safest bet against a bad contract, and they will prefer a player they don't have to give up a haul for in a trade. Also it is not a given whether the Sox will offer James a QO. I would have said they wouldn't have before the season but now I'm not so sure. If the Sox make the QO he could accept it.

Even though I think the best course of action is to keep the young players, if the Mets choose to trade DeGrom after the ownership change, I wonder if we could offer enough without trading Crochet, Vaughn, Kelly, Stiever or Kopech. If we could trade for DeGrom and sign Stroman, that would be awesome for a lot of reasons, including the fact that we would still have impact SP very close to MLB ready. Cease + Dunning + Thompson/Dalquist/Vera + Lopez for DeGrom + Familia (salary dump incentive) Rotation: DeGrom - Giolito - Keuchel - Stroman - Crochet + Bullpen as 5th starter (because we have all these innings eaters now) AAA Rotation: Kopech - Stiever A Rotation: Kelly - 2 of Thompson/Dalquist/Vera When Kopech comes up, he piggybacks Crochet, and then after the season we trade a SP.

I agree. But the best part is that it puts us in the 2nd lesser bracket away from the Twins, Yankees, and Rays, which makes it easier for us to put up a AL Divisional Series Championship Banner and all the other banners that follow.

We will have it a lot easier now (in a bad way) than it would have been. Burr had TJ and he was looking good. Hamilton got hurt. Medeiros failed so far. Etc. a bunch of our relievers didn't work. Then Basabe was DFAs etc. The original roster crunch was a lot scarier because we were thinking there would be more guys on the 40 man. We are still looking at one though, but IMO probably not until the 2021-2022 offseason. I'm not sure how many players we will need to protect this year though. What's interesting about our 40 man is that so many of the guys on it are real strong contributors already. Usually 40 man rosters have a ton of weakness on them. We could probably take about 3/4 of our 40 man roster and compare it to the rest of the league, and in terms of both quality and youth, we have to have one of the top strongest rosters in baseball.

How does this help the player at all? IMO there's zero chance something like this makes it into the new CBA. They need to add trading of draft picks and revamp the QO system. I would do something like this, and make multiple QOs: #1 SP QO (e.g. $28M / worth 2 sandwich picks between 1st & 2nd); #3/mid rotation QO (e.g. $15M / worth 2 sandwich picks between 2nd & 3rd); #5 starter QO (e.g. $5M / worth 1 sandwich pick between 3rd & 4th); an all-star position player QO (e.g. $28M / worth 2 sandwich picks between 1st & 2nd), a starting position player QO (e.g. $15M / worth 2 sandwich picks between 2nd & 3rd), a bench player QO (e.g. $3M / worth 1 sandwich pick between 4th & 5th), a closer QO (e.g. $15M / worth 2 sandwich picks between 2nd & 3rd), a setup man QO (e.g. $7M / worth 1 sandwich pick between 3rd & 4th and 1 between 4th & 5th), and a middle reliever QO (e.g. $3M / worth 1 sandwich pick between 4th & 5th) As long as a team losing a player offered the appropriate QO and the player declined, that team would get a pick plus bonus pool cash. This adds more money to the draft as well which is good. But then no team ever loses a pick, so no matter what the team is or what the record is, no signing team ever loses a draft pick. That is what needs to happen. Also the arbitration system needs to change quite a bit as well.