South Side Hit Men

Here are the "facts" directly from MLB. https://www.mlb.com/press-release/press-release-major-league-baseball-statement-mike-clevinger 3/5/23 MLB accepted Clevinger's voluntary agreement to submit to evaluations by the joint treatment boards under collectively bargained policies, and to comply with any of the board's recommendations. which your "logic" is "discipline by definition". But of course your interpretation it's not accurate, as players can enter the program either voluntarily, with or without a formal MLB investigation, as a result formal discipline and or via an arbitration decision as defined in the CBA. Let's stick with the actual CBA agreement covering Domestic Violence, Sexual Assault and Child Abuse, which Clevinger voluntarily agreed to as part of MLB's announcement that it was dropping further investigation, for one, two or all three provisions of the policy. https://content.mlb.com/documents/2/9/2/296982292/Major_League_Player_Joint_DV_SA_CA_Policy_English_2018.pdf Provisions regarding the treatment plan can be found starting with page 9 of the linked pdf document. That is all I have to say about this matter or the Chicago White Sox. While I hope Mike Clevinger has begun making amends in his personal life, including toward his various children and their mothers, this is beyond my ability to stomach as part of "entertainment". This is strike three on Chris Getz, after hiring Wes Helms and Omar Vizquel, the latter Chris Getz praised as having "positive impact" in the clubhouse. The same clubhouse where Omar Vizquel repeatedly molested an autistic batboy naked in the showers. None of this is surprising considering Getz was personally mentored by Dayton Moore, who was persistent in trying to sign a pedophile convicted of repeatedly molesting his six year old niece. https://theathletic.com/409033/2018/06/26/dayton-moore-is-advocating-for-luke-heimlich-but-if-the-royals-eventually-sign-him-it-will-be-ownerships-call/ Perhaps when all persons primarily responsible for this latest fiasco (Jerry Reinsdorf, Tony La Russa, Chris Getz and Mike Clevinger) are all no longer with the organization, and assuming Chicago Taxpayers aren't screwed a second time with another stadium scheme, and a non Reinsdorf is approved by MLB as the Primary Control Person, I may one day be interested in following the team. I wish all of you well. Take care.

Evaluations and or therapy provided by experts in evaluating, assessing, and treating persons involved in child abuse, domestic violence and or drug abuse are not considered discipline you pathetic obtuse asshat. Clevinger specifically fully agreed to evaluations by these professions, and if recommended a treatment plan.

Should have made Reese McGuire player manager when they had the chance.

I was hopeful there would be an improvement in roster and injury management after Hahn’s departure. Misplaced hope. Same as it ever was.

I agree no single individual fan’s concerns are relevant. However, 35,000 - 40,000 plus empty seats during many games last year, the past two games and future upcoming games this season and beyond indicate collective fan concerns are relevant to the situation. See also low TV and near non existent radio ratings, despite quality radio broadcasts. James Fegan with a thought piece on this situation. https://soxmachine.com/2024/04/mike-clevinger-returning-to-white-sox-for-reasons-yet-to-be-outlined/#comment-9152879 James Fegan believes the club needs to properly explain his return. If I cancel my Sox Machine and Future Sox patreon, it will be due to lack of further interest in White Sox baseball, and not a reflection of the good work both entities do in covering a inept organization. An organization doing everything possible to make it difficult for any fan to like and joyfully follow the team.

Dropping a lawsuit is irrelevant to my concerns. Most people including single mothers can’t afford a lengthy legal battle with a multi millionaire. If there isn’t an honest discussion by the organization addressing legitimate public concerns, that is their choice. Boycotting will be thousands of fans choice as well. I’ll skip the games at this point, but monitor SoxTalk for updates.

He was placed on waivers at least once and had zero takers, so zero prospects were needed to acquire him, just the desire to pick up his contract and whatever baggage he may carry / still carry. As always with this organization, be careful what you wish / ask for, because fans typically get something even worse than what they formally had or were facing. I didn’t listen to any Clevinger appearances last year, skipped these games including buying tickets. I rationalized the other four games by chalking up his signing to the hallmark Reinsdorf organization lack of managerial competence versus knowingly signing someone with ongoing domestic violence issues. This despite the fact they very well knew of his toxic clubhouse issues in Cleveland and San Diego. Before deciding to boycott White Sox baseball for a third time, until MLB approves a new permanent non Reinsdorf ownership, I will wait to see whether Getz and Clevinger address concerns regarding his clubhouse presence, management of his domestic violence proclivities, including how the MLB mandated personal therapy sessions may help him better manage his interactions with his children, family, and society. I believe people should have a chance at redemption if they are truly remorseful and try daily to improve and become a better person. The Golddigger walk up indicated he (and the White Sox) still had significant issues that needed to be resolved last year, including the fact that the club was indulging his worst impulses. The one positive is there have been no public news items or even rumors of new domestic violence issues since he signed last year. Getz at minimum needs to have an open honest public discussion addressing legitimate fan and societal concerns regarding Clevinger. If Getz fails to properly address these concerns, and or Mike Clevinger fails to answer legitimate questions as to how he is working to become a better person, then I’m done until MLB approves a non Reinsdorf control person down the line, assuming that ever happens. Jerry ultimately signed off on this, regardless of whether Tony La Russa and or Getz approved Clevinger’s recruitment and signing.

In the 124 year history of the franchise, there was a single stretch eight year stretch between 1948-1955 when the Sox had their lone stretch of a cumulative losing franchise record. 1947 .500 (3,544-3540-77) 1948 .497 (3,595-3,641-79) 1949 .495 (3,658-3,732-79) 1950 .493 (3,718-3,826-81) 1951 .494 (3,799-3,889-82) 1952 .494 (3,880-3,972-84) 1953 .496 (3,969-4,037-86) 1954 .498 (4,063-4,097-87) 1955 .500 (4,154-4,160-88) 1956 .501 (4,239-4,229-88) Jerry Reinsdorf has positioned the team to broach this level of infamy. With a 49-113 record this season.... 1980 .502 (6,179-6,128-99) 2023 .502 (9,553-9,491-103) 2024 .500 (9,602-9,604-103)

The A's record was played under the original 154 game schedule. The modern 162 game schedule record is the Met's inaugural season (40-120 with 2 rain outs). The Tigers record you noted is the worst non expansion modern schedule record. The A's started 10-40 last season, then went 40-72 the rest of the way.

Sox should have hired Liam's wife Kristi as bench coach to help spot these things proactively.

There was talk he was tipping pitches. Hope he figures it out.

Yoan has had a solid start to the season. Keep the line moving Luis!

Radio announcers more balanced. DJ calls it like it is. Has praise when warranted.

The White Sox Front Office celebrates April Fools Day every day of the year.

He's a below average defender with no arm. He cant really hit anymore, and is an ex Royal, so perhaps that is where you are going.

Plus he is a good defender at a premium position, whereas Benintendi is a hack limited to the third least defensive position with no arm.

Atlanta has some good players in their lineup today. Sox beat them 2 of 3 in Atlanta after the ASB last year. Baseball. Morton was responsible for the 9-0 win over Kopech.

Except on the position player side for guys at the age where it's produce or move on (Sosa and Lee only here due to IL stints, Colas on some extended Pedro/Getz "timeout". Meanwhile, Vegas has less confidence in the Sox's chances against an actual good plus team, as they are + $136 getting + 1 1/2 runs, versus the $125 to $144 one had to lay for the same plus 1 1/2 runs over the weekend. White Sox 3-0 with the run line (+ 1 1/2 Runs) this season. 3/28 White Sox + 1 1/2 Runs (-125) 3/30 White Sox + 1 1/2 Runs (-144) 3/31 White Sox + 1 1/2 Runs (-129) Crochet vs. Lopez will be one I'm excited to catch if it happens.

Is there any internal discussion of bringing in any low cost unsigned starters / waiver claims (between $740K and $3M)? Don't understand why Getz is so obsessed stashing early to mid 30s guys (Pillar, Grossman, Phillips, Ortega) in addition to Fletcher, Colas, Sheets, and DeLoach for RF and a 4th OF. Whereas they are already burning prospects and starting the clock on guys like Nastrini with four AAA starts at his highest level. Rich Hill, Johnny Queto can likely get you 20-25 starts this year covering 100 + innings. The White Sox desperately need innings eaters just to survive the season. Why won't they add a 5th / 6th starter, especially after demoting Kopech?

If anyone has a link to online Forbes Business of Baseball data before 2013, please reply or DM.

The three amounts are cumulative over the 11 years of data available online. People can click this link to only see 2023 income / 2024 valuations. https://www.forbes.com/mlb-valuations/list/ The Mets lost $292M in 2023, so over half of their cumulative $492M loss between 2013-2023.

Wasn't "left out". Wasn't going to replicate what everyone can find in the link provided. The 11 year average (the extent of data I can find online) smooths out ebbs and flows of revenue / expenses. The Sox made a net $132.9M over the past 11 years (doesn't include "non baseball revenue" or other entities such as the RSN. Sox lost $130.5M the past four years per Forbes. They made $263.4M between 2013 (a $2.9M loss) and 2019, for a net $132.9M in income 2013-2023.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/chrisdobstaff/2024/03/28/diving-into-the-business-of-baseball-for-the-2024-mlb-season/?sh=72aedde8357c The link above provides information about the league in general, and team by team breakouts. I will have a few posts in this thread covering both the 2023 income/expense components, and also a rank of teams by total income (earned income + unrealized capital gains) over the past 11 seasons. Changes in Valuation Rank Positions (+/- 2 or more): Increase: Philadelphia (#9 to #7) & Cincinnati (#28 to #26). Decrease: YOY Change in Stadium Capacity: Blue Jays 49,282 to 41,500. Changes in Ownership: San Diego (Peter Seidler to Peter Seidler Estate) & Baltimore (Peter Angelos to David Rubenstein, Angelos Family) The White Sox Rank As Follows (2024 Value, 2013-2023 Income): Valuation Components: 15th Overall Value; 2nd Shared MLB Revenue *; 16th Market; 17th Stadium; 15th Brand; Tied 5th Population. Income Components: 19th Net Income; 15th Increase in Value; 22nd Revenue; 19th Player Payroll. Stadium: 1 of 24 Publicly Purchased Stadiums; 12th Capacity; Tied 19th Average 2023 Ticket Price; Tied 25th Revenue Per Fan; 24th Gate Receipts. 2024 Record Difference Required for the White Sox to be dead last overall across MLB 2013-2024: Colorado (3 Games Better); Miami (23 1/2 Games Better). Total Net Gain by Team (2013-2023) 2024 Team Value (Win - Loss Rank & Percentage) Team [NI = Net Income NL = Net Loss UCG = Unrealized Capital Gains] $4.967 B $7.550 B (#2 .560) New York Yankees [NL $82.9 M $5.050 B UCG] $3.654 B $4.225 B (#9 .519) Chicago Cubs [NI $629.3 M $3.025 B UCG] $3.589 B $4.500 B (#8 .533) Boston Red Sox [NI $588.7 M $3.000 B UCG] $3.438 B $5.450 B (#1 .613) Los Angeles Dodgers [NL $12.2 M $3.450 B UCG] $3.429 B $3.800 B (#14 .503) San Francisco Giants [NI $629.3 M $2.800 B UCG] $2.526 B $2.800 B (#7 .535) Atlanta N. L. Baseball Club [NI $456.4 M $2.070 B UCG] $2.408 B $2.425 B (#3 .549) Houston Astros [NI $513.1 M $1.895 B UCG] $2.178 B $2.700 B (#18 .486) Los Angeles Angels [NI $252.8 M $1.925 B UCG] $2.159 B $2.925 B (#21 .473) Philadelphia Phillies [NI $208.5 M $1.950 B UCG] $2.134 B $2.550 B (#5 .548) Saint Louis Cardinals [NI $403.6 M $1.730 B UCG] $1.825 B $2.400 B (#19 .478) Texas Rangers [NI $249.9 M $1.575 B UCG] $1.808 B $2.200 B (#12 .506) Seattle Mariners [NI $318.1 M $1.490 B UCG] $1.708 B $3.000 B (#15 .501) New York Mets [NL $491.6 M $2.200 B UCG] $1.563 B $2.000 B (#13 .505) Washington Nationals [NI $263.3 M $1.300 B UCG] $1.488 B $2.050 B (#28 .453) Chicago White Sox [NI $132.9 M $1.355 B UCG] $1.395 B $1.725 B (#23 .469) Baltimore Orioles [NI $290.2 M $1.105 B UCG] $1.361 B $1.605 B (#10 .518) Milwaukee Brewers [NI $321.1 M $1.040 B UCG] $1.293 B $2.100 B (#11 .511) Toronto Blue Jays [NL $196.8 M $1.490 B UCG] $1.206 B $1.320 B (#20 .478) Pittsburgh Pirates [NI $457.7 M $0.748 B UCG] $1.146 B $1.780 B (#22 .470) San Diego Padres [NL $19.1 M $1.165 B UCG] $1.085 B $1.350 B (#4 .549) Cleveland Guardians [NI $304.9 M $0.780 B UCG] $1.063 B $1.425 B (#24 .469) Arizona Diamondbacks [NI $223.4 M $0.840 B UCG] $1.046 B $1.250 B (#6 .540) Tampa Bay Rays [NI $280.9 M $0.765 B UCG] $0.988 B $1.460 B (#17 .486) Minnesota Twins [NI $133.0 M $0.855 B UCG] $0.949 B $1.475 B (#29 .452) Colorado Rockies [NI $48.7 M $0.900 B UCG] $0.904 B $1.225 B (#25 .458) Kansas City Royals [NI $168.5 M $0.735 B UCG] $0.839 B $1.200 B (#16 .489) Oakland Athletics [NI $134.2 M $0.705 B UCG] $0.746 B $1.260 B (#26 .456) Cincinnati Reds [NI $86.4 M $0.660 B UCG] $0.715 B $1.450 B (#27 .455) Detroit Tigers [NL $55.2 M $0.770 B UCG] $0.433 B $1.000 B (#30 .439) Miami Marlins [NL $67.4 M $0.500 B UCG] Note * - Not a reflection of the Competitive Balance Tax, but rather the beneficiary of their contribution to MLB revenue as a whole, versus what they take out of the overall pie.

I don't believe this is the case, unless you have a multi-generational timeline in mind. The White Sox are entering Year 14 (2011 - 2024) of tanking / bad baseball, with five solid months (Ventura 3; Renteria 1; La Russa 1) over this span. (5) White Sox Months 6+ Wins > .500 19-10 May 2021 19-9 August 2020 17-8 April 2016 16-10 July 2015 18-11 May 2012 (21) White Sox Months 6+ Wins < .500 8-19 September 2023 10-17 August 2023 7-16 July 2023 7-20 April 2023 7-17 July 2019 8-19 September 2018 9-15 July 2018 8-19 May 2018 6-18 April 2018 11-18 August 2017 6-18 July 2017 11-18 May 2017 11-17 May 2016 10-16 June 2015 9-19 August 2014 7-21 September 2013 8-18 July 2013 8-19 June 2013 11-17 September 2012 11-17 September 2011 10-18 April 2011