South Side Hit Men

For the purpose of the poll, a successful waiver claim (with or without a trade component) would be considered an FA/Trade acquisition. I agree it will take at least a month or two, possibly into the second half before knowing the ultimate answer. That is why I thought it was an interesting poll question discussed on the radio broadcast yesterday.

This is the best news, both for this particular move and that the Sox didn’t keep a guy just because he was brought in by the manager and or coaching staff. Hope it works out for Lucroy elsewhere if he is still physically able to catch, but this is the year to give Collins and also perhaps Mercedes a chance to catch as a backup. There will always be a veteran backup type available from one of the taking teams if neither are able to catch adequately after a reasonable period of evaluation.

It would be wrong to start Collins and Vaughn nearly everyday. Collins has 102 ML at bats, a .599 OPS, .361 vs. LHP. He should platoon only, the Sox have plenty of other hitters to start against LHP. Vaughn has 0 ML at bats above A ball. He should sit against tough RHPs, ease him against weaker RHP to ensure he can handle the jump. Garcia should rotate covering Eaton vs. LHP, and some starts for Engel in LF when he is subbing for Robert or against tough RHP. The Sox should get a utility infielder, claim Yolmer Sanchez (he's on waivers) if they are not comfortable with Mendick. If you are going to worry about anything, worry about Tony getting all veteranastic, starting Eaton regularly against LHP, Lucroy every time Grandal is off/DH/1B, and God Forbid fucking Billy Hamilton (2020 OPS .390, .564 in 2019) gets any starts ever, unless they literally don't have 9 batters that day because of COVID.

The poll is your prediction as to who will play the most innings in left field. It is NOT a referendum on your preferred LF option. Poll closes before first pitch Opening Day.

Once Engel can play, Grandal can catch, and assuming they go "internal" for LF, I'd go this route: RHP 1. Anderson SS; 2. Eaton^ RF; 3. Abreu 1B; 4. Moncada* 3B; 5. Grandal* C; 6. Robert CF; 7. Collins^/Vaughn DH; 8. Vaughn/Engel LF; 9. Madrigal 2B LHP 1. Anderson SS; 2. Grandal* C; 3. Abreu 1B; 4. Moncada* 3B; 5. Robert CF; 6. Vaughn DH; 7. Engel RF; 8. Garcia# LF; 9. Madrigal 2B I fear Lucroy playing 60 + games, Collins getting snubbed, Vaughn being overwhelmed if near everyday LF.

Excited for the bullpen planned for today: Heuer, Crochet, Kopech and Hendriks. Nice to see Yoan be able to stay in the game.

Now this is a lineup worthy of multi championship discussion. Anderson SS Soto LF Abreu 1B Moncada 3B Jimenez DH Kelenic RF Robert CF Grandal (Or McCann) C Wong 2B

I remember Flukey Stokes being buried in a Cadillac Coffin.

Jerry was mostly cheap beyond the Fisk signing, just as he is now. They were never a consistently top half payroll team as they would have been under Debartolo. A few brief sports after the WS and when the new park opened. Even now, “all in” they are cheap beyond paying two managers to fulfill Jerry’s asinine fantasies. The only Top MLB Contract they pursued was Belle, solely because Jerry wanted to spite his fellow owners. He ended up dumping him after the second year, a year after the white flag trade , once spite ran its course and cheap and stupid returned in vogue. Hemond was replaced because Jerry wanted his guy, not Allyn/Veeck’s guy. So he and Dombrowski were purged, and Dombrowski travelled across America building multiple great clubs including the White Sox’ other nemesis (Detroit). Himes did great in the draft but was purged as well. Now stuck with White Sox Gar Pax entering year nine with now end beyond Jerry’s departure in sight. Same with the Bulls until a few years after Michael Reinsdorf took over and they could finally purge Gar Pax with Jerry gone. This. The dysfunctional organization starts at the top. Hang on to unqualified cheap cronies to run the show, don’t know how to or bother need to compete on the field to make money. It’s why the Sox and Bears have floundered for decades, and the Bulls for two decades once the gift of Portland’s blunder (Sam Bowie), Pippen and Jackson were gleefully purged by JR/Krause, followed by two decades of Paxton, a lottery pick (Rose) away from complete and abysmal failure. Same with the Blackhawks until Dollar Bill died, and the Cubs until the Tribune sold, competent baseball people were hired and the money spent. Once Jerry is gone, hopefully things will change for the better as they have for the Bulls, whether the Reinsdorf’s keep the team or not.

I’m not a big fan of keeping back both Lucroy and Hamilton on the roster once Engel can return. I’d be ok with both gone once Engel can return and they can bring in a fifth outfield capable of hitting, which Hamilton is not. You can get a fill in from one of the dozen tanking teams for either. I see it likely they keep Lucroy all year, really fear they keep Hamilton and this Katz guy (Turley) all year as well. What I would go with, keeping Vaughn at DH / 1B, at least once Engel can return. C 1B DH Abreu, Collins, Grandal, Vaughn. 2B 3B SS Anderson, Madrigal, Moncada, Mendick (Prefer Yolmer - he’s available). OF Eaton, Engel, Garcia, Robert, + (FA)

Thank you for the links. I read / remembered Jerome H's take at the time, was not aware of these articles. I stand corrected.

I was at the game the Sox fired their gameday staffer for playing this when Chuck Finley was warming up, shortly after his wife, Tawny Katten (see below) was arrested for kicking Chuck’s ass.

I explained Hamilton. Not sure I’d personally go with Mercedes (DH/C) or Lucroy (C) either, given Collins, but it appears the club is likely signing Lucroy to a Major League contract because he is a veteran Tony and Narron trust/like. Collins is only a OD lock now because of the Eloy injury and the Vaughn/Wild Thing experiment. Many here were arguing to keep Vaughn in Schaumburg pre Eloy injury to save Jerry money in the mid 2020s (so much for “all in”). Williams has shown nothing as an OFer (negative WAR each year primarily due to abysmal defense) since 2017. The club hasn’t played Beckham this Spring (3 at bats), and even if they thought of him as more than minor league depth, he has to complete his 80 game PED suspension, I’m not sure on how many games remain.

Roster construction, by Rick Hahn C, 1B, DH: (7) Abreu, Collins, Grandal, Jimenez, Lucroy, Mercedes, Vaughn. 2B, SS, 3B, RF, CF, LF: (8) Anderson, Eaton, Engel, Garcia, Madrigal, Mendick, Moncada, Robert. Capable ML fielders/hitters in the entire organization after years of tanking and high draft picks. Not including Hamilton beyond being a body to throw out there for emergencies until Garcia and Engel return. (.621 career OPS, .564 and .390 the past two seasons, or the equivalent of Nicky Delmonico level hitting).

No, you are not remembering what happened 35 years ago. This was La Russa's scheme, Harrelson signed off on it, asked Tony to pull the plug when it wasn't working. Tony dug in, went to Jerry and kept Fisk in LF for another week plus until finally conceding it was a complete debacle and shifting Fisk back to Catcher. https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/ct-xpm-1986-06-22-8602140807-story.html

Yes, love Men at Work. Should definitely have a lively conversation for as long as this lasts. La Russa's Carlton Fisk in Left Field plan lasted 31 games before Hawk rightly put his foot down and said enough is enough. Not sure if that number is too high for the under/over on this "experiment". Just putting way to much on a 22 year old kid. it's hard enough to adjust to ML pitching straight from A ball. Add trying to learn a position on the fly with a significant risk of injury with no OF experience. Don't agree with the idea of getting cute with Hahn's pathetic roster depth and construction, stacked with seven players qualified to only field three positions (C 1B DH), and no OFers in the minors after years of tanking and drafting high. Suck it up, have Tony go into Jerry's office with the jaws of life to pry open Reinsdorf's wallet, or suck it up with the shitty roster depth and the limited actual OFers Hahn assembled until Engel returns, and then you have two platoon guys manning the corners at least until the trade deadline. You also better hope Adam Eaton, another player who doesn't know his physical limitations, can stay healthy for a good portion of the season. If this was Ricky Renteria's cockamamie plan, this board would go ape shit over it.

Rick Hahn and Tony La Russa: "So, you played outfield in little league, correct? And you haven't played above A ball. OK, so here's our brilliant plan. You are going to play left field on Opening Day and with a few Spring Training games to work the kinks out, and you're also expected to be a valuable hitter. Good luck and go get'em kid." It's like doubling down on 16 in Vegas.

There is a lot more going on than "baby fat". Eloy Jimenez has played a 177 games in the Major League. He has been injured six times. 4/26/19 - Ejoy Jimenez suffers a high ankle sprain attempting to play Left Field. Eloy is placed on IR, returned 5/20 7/16/19 - Ejoy Jimenez collides with Charlie Tilson attempting to play Left Field. Eloy suffers a right ulnar nerve contusion and is placed on IR, returned 7/28 7/26/20 - Ejoy Jimenez attacks the wall in Left Field with his head and losses that battle. Eloy avoids IR, returned 7/29 8/25/20 - Ejoy Jimenez twisted his ankle attempting to preserve celebrating Lucas Giolito's no hitter. Returned 8/27 9/24/20 - Ejoy Jimenez sprained his foot attempting to run the bases. Missed the remainder of the regular season, missed all but two at bats in the postseason. 3/23/21 - Ejoy Jimenez tears his pectoral tendon, attempting to play Left Field. Eloy is placed on the 60 Day IR, is expected to miss most if not all of the season. This doesn't even account for his -2.0 dWAR in 168 games in Left Field. They need Steve Dahl to go to Center Field, put Eloy Jimenez' glove in a box and blow it up upon his return to the team.

This. Robert doesn’t need to get into shape physically beyond getting timing down like every hitter. He needs to get mentally prepared for each at bat, and the grind of a full season (2019 (122) the only season above 56 games played). I’ve seen a lot of wasted at bats this Spring, swinging at a lot of garbage pitches, poor at bats. He needs to be hungrier and more focused, take advantage of the limited ST at bats to start the season right.

Well, with 2020 similar to an off season full of rest (32 games caught), Hahn’s latest roster construction mess, and Eloy’s lost season, 2021 is the likely best shot of the three to exceed “100ish” games over the rest of his contract. For his full time seasons, not counting his steroid suspension year or 2020 (2014-2019), he averaged 114.5 games played, don’t think it’s realistic to ask him to exceed that during the decline phase of his career.

I'm with you except for the Abreu part, he's playing through 2022, unless there is some type if severe injury or completely unexpected drop off in production. I know it was a short season, but he was MVP and is far more valuable in the present than Andrew Vaughn. They will have tough decisions for 2023, especially if Keuchel vests (160 IP next two years) and they are stuck with that $20M albatross of a deal. Would like the Sox to bring in Kim Ng as President, clean house, and give Abreu and opportunity in the FO or perhaps working with Paddy, if those options are something he is interested in, or just about anything else he would like to do with the organization. He has a great passion for the game, is smart, can be instrumental in continuing to recruit top Cuban players and is a person people love. He may also have 1 or 2 years left in the tank on the field, but they can evaluate that scenario in another 18 months.

Calling a jersey number “trash” is absurd.

I’ll be very disappointed if Vaughn isn’t wearing 99 today.

That’s short term, I agree Collins is likely a lock to open the season with what happened. However, will he be sent down in favor of Lucroy, even if he continues to out play Lucroy? Are they going to keep a Hamilton and Turley all year? I’d give La Russa a lot of credit if they go against their personal preference and bypass veterans they brought in, when it becomes clear there are better younger alternatives already here.