Chimpton

But he was squaring up to another 'non-white' player, so how does that fit in to your narrative? TA did start it by throwing his glove down and then putting his fists up. It is not as if it was a fight between an African American player and a White player and people are siding with the White player. People are laughing at TA because he squared up like a tough guy and then got knocked down by one punch. And as for AV he was trying to help out a teammate by saving him from further harm, the fact he is White is irrelevant. And not everyone is praising him some on here think he should have been throwing punches, so that equally doesn't fit your narrative.

You could appreciate him by spelling his name correctly!

That was my best bit of this whole sorry incident, only Eloy could potentially injure himself by getting trodden on by one of his own players.

In football (soccer) the referee always stands back when there is a scuffle in order to see which players needs punishing. Not sure if that is the same for baseball, but it could explain why the umpire took a step back and let them fight. Mind you scuffles are rare in soccer, and rarely have I seen actual punches being thrown, the occasional headbutt. The players did rush to intervene but by then Anderson was on his ass. Like most sporting fights only 2 or 3 actual punches were thrown, it is just that usually one of the protaganists isn't decked by one of the punches. Basically, this whole sorry affair would normally be nothing by now but because Anderson was actually floored it has been made into a bigger thing. Obviously as the White Sox are losing and dressingroom unrest is rumoured we tend to read more into this incident in terms of did the players support Anderson enough and if they didn't does that mean they don't like him.

TA's reaction of still spoiling for a fight despite being knocked on his ass reminds me of this Monty Python scene

Sorry but TA did start it, by throwing his glove to the floor hockey style and putting up his fists like a comedy boxer. If that is how he reacts when someone points at him he has serious anger issues. And as for saying that punching someone in retaliation would show club pride that is utter macho drivel. Anyway retaliate for what? TA squared up, threw the first punch, then got knocked on his ass, so Ramirez was just retaliating TA's childish tantrum.

But they did come to his aid by helping his wobbly ass away from further embarrassment.

I would agree with you but this season is over and any effect of team bonding over a fight would have worn off by next season. Maybe something similar at the start of the season could have helped bring the clubhouse together but I think the underlying issues with this squad are far greater than being solved by a bit of team spirit. But certainly this is a clubhouse that appears to have no spirit, no team ethic, no leadership from within and no leadership from above. I think the biggest laugh from this incident was that Eloy managed to injure himself and it wasn't through any opposition violence it was get his toe trod on probably by one of his own team. That just about sums up this team.

It was TA's fault, he squared up like a tough guy and got put on his backside, Vaughn and the others were protecting him from himself, he was clearly concussed and barely able to walk, letting him get knocked over again would be stupid. Not punching someone doesnt make you weak, violence is the first resort of the 'emotional retard'. It showed more 'leadership' for Vaughn to step in and protect a team mate by removing him from further harm than if he flew in like a meathead and punched a few guys.

Maybe but that 'siege mentality' only works for a short time. I think it would take more than a good fight to sort this clubhouse out. And I certainly don't think Grifol knocking out an opponent in retaliation would make hima better manager all of a sudden.

Would they get that chemistry by also serving suspensions? TA got knocked on his backside due to his own stupidity, more players getting suspended for punching opponents would not prove anything other than they are just as stupid as TA.

Utter nonsense, so Betts thinks more White Sox players should have been throwing punches? How come no other Guardians players threw punches? Does that mean they don't support Ramirez? As a former teacher the 'fight' was just like so many playground fights, after 1 or 2 punches it virtually always degenerates into pushing and shoving and 'hold me back' posturing.

When they play like this they hint at what could have been, consistency is a big issue for this team, they are either good or bad, there is nothing inbetween. Plus it is always good to beat the Yankees no matter how good they are playing.

Why would Hahn even mention it? He slammed Middleton for breaking the 'what goes on in the clubhouse rule' and then promptly did it himself by teasing this story and saying Middleton himself apologised for being unprofessional. Hahn would say anything to try an wriggle off the hook of his own incompetence. By teasing this story he just ensured it stays in the media and speculation longer than if he just said that he refuted Middleton's claims.

Back problems can be intermittant and/or only restrict certain movements, but Moncada has to be one of the biggest busts of this whole rebuild, but we are stuck with him as no one else will take on his contract. The only hope is that if he can get proper rest and treatment for his back in the close season he won't suck as bad next season. Even is his bat is never more than average he was good at 3B before this season.

Eloy and Moncada would be in the sick bay!

They would probably hire Ron Burgundy instead.

To be honest even calling it an 'Organisation' is a bit of a misnomer. There is absolutely nothing organised about it.

Why? Is he anticipating big crowds?

In those 12 years there have been only 3 winning seasons (one of which was the 60 game season) and one .500 season, and they reached the playoffs twice. I think that explains why there have been 5/6 managers in that period. If any one of them had been consistently winning then they wouldn't have been replaced

It is difficult to tell. But having said that I think a lot of experienced managers would struggle with this squad and FO. I think it was very telling that Grifol was the 'best' they could find to manage a squad that was supposedly in its window for challenging for a World Series. Either the FO is just plain incompetent (very likely) or there genuinely weren't any better candidates willing to take on the job (which is very worrying).

Looks like they are a perfect fit for the White Sox!

I gave him a hopeful C The actual trades made will only be good if the White Sox can actually train them properly so that they develop to near their potential, something the White Sox haven't been good at. Equally, it was only a C because I think they could have cleared out more than they did. I was sad to see Burger flipped but unless they are going to get rid of Moncada (which will be virtually impossible given what he is owed in 2024) then Burger really has no position other than DH, and his value was probably near its peak at the moment.

To be honest many sports teams dressing rooms are populated by people who are not 'grown ass men' mentally, they may be physically. Elite sportsmen have usually led a sheltered and coveted lifestyle from an early age when their talent became apparent. They are used to people bending over backwards to please them, by the time they reach the MLB or any elite sports level too many of them think that 'they have made it' and don't really take on criticism or have any self criticism. That is why someone from their peer group of players who either leads by example or call them out when they are not performing is often the difference between a team like the White Sox who drift along and underachieve and a team that is motivated and over achieves. Coaches and managers do play a part, but players know that usually the manager or coaches will be the first to be sacked for poor performance because that is easier than getting rid of a whole number of players. The rot set in under TLR but it seems to have got far worse under Grifol, it makes you wonder if there is any player backing up what the manager says. The big trouble is that once this indifference has set in it takes a very charismatic manager or strong player leaders to change the culture, and it would appear the White Sox have neither.