Yossarian

QUOTE(witesoxfan @ Aug 15, 2007 -> 01:13 AM) And all I was saying was that Floyd's 1% shot at being an above average major league starting pitcher is better than Haeger's 0% shot. I disagree with your math. I give Floyd a 1% shot at being about as good as Jaime Navarro was when he pitched for us.

The White Sox were 56-29 on July 6, 2006. They then proceeded to lose two of the three to the Red Sox right before the All Star break. Despite their strong start they managed to limp home with 90 wins, in a year where it was again all for the taking. St. Louis Cardinals? GMAB. Anyway, since then they are a dreadful 88-106. That's more than a season of really lousy baseball. You're looking for a silver lining? With the present farm system and scouting in place? I'm afraid it may take a few years to get back to respectability. The Sox had a great chance to challenge Cub dominance and blew it.

Yes, DeBusschere showed promise as a pitcher. He had a near HOF career in the NBA. Gene Conley who pitched for 12 years (1952-1963) in the ML, also played in the NBA. Dick Groat, who was the NL MVP for the Pirates, was a standout basketball player at Duke, then played one season in the NBA, before going with baseball full time. Guys that are talented enough to play more than one professional sport well have my greatest respect. Bo Jackson was maybe the best in that select group.

De Busschere made the right career choice. I remember when Forster and Gossage were Sox stars of the future.

Interesting. You don't have to read between the lines, just read.

QUOTE(29andPoplar @ Aug 12, 2007 -> 11:19 AM) Actually I underestimate nothing. I have been around the team quite a bit in spring and see how much effort he and the coaches put into the players, the relationships, the teamwork and camaraderie. A lot of this ego, temper, and supposed favoritism is complete crap, a product of the media and message boards. A fan puts a spin on something and suddenly it's gospel. He is far from perfect, far from it. He makes mistakes but his heart is in the right place, and that place is wanting this team to win. OK I respect your viewpoint. Even maybe to the point that I may "listen" more to your posts with the possible result of tempering some of my opinions. I doubt however, that we will ever see completely eye to eye on Ozzie. I'm not an "Ozzie is a total idiot" kind of guy. I just think he brings equally strong strengths and weaknesses to the table. Edit. 29 and Poplar Al Lopez is my favorite all time White Sox manager. I also think he's the best the Sox ever had. Lopez had a legendary temper, and at times could overdo it when a player of his got in the doghouse. He cost the Sox their best chance to win the 59 WS when he froze Billy Pierce out of the rotation. At various times he came down hard on Floyd Robinson, Ray Herbert and Jim Landis. He didn't campaign hard for Nellie Fox's induction into the HOF. Some say it was because Foxie took his roommate Pierce's side in 59. Still all in all, he got more out of less than any manager I've ever seen. He was the game day strategist that I wish Ozzie was. The debate for me about Ozzie isn't personal. In the same vein I see the faults of the late Al Lopez and still give him his HOF due. Give Ozzie another speed, pitching, defense team and see if he can do it again. Especially the speed part, an integral part of Ozzie's game.

QUOTE(29andPoplar @ Aug 12, 2007 -> 10:08 AM) You couldn't be more incorrect, but that's been hashed out enough as well. You underestimate Ozzie's ego, temper, and at times favoritism.

QUOTE(GreenSox @ Aug 12, 2007 -> 08:41 AM) I agree - he has talent, so use him the rest of the year. Let's see what he has. Plenty of young players, including pitchers, need a fair chance. We're out of it, so we can give him the chance. Let me see if I can type and bang my head against the wall at the same time. I'm trying to remember a young pitcher getting as many chances, despite pitching as badly as Floyd has. The White Sox have some young players on the roster, and some down on the farm that make a fan hopeful. Gavin Floyd is not one of them.

I was glad Floyd had that strong start against the Tigers, and hoped that he could right his own personal ship. Last night it was business as usual. The kid has no "it". Almost everyone it seems, has blinders on. Floyd is what he is. Lousy, and that's being charitable.

I was here for a long time, and then gone for a longer time. I don't know who has what personal history with who. That being said, Ozzie has given many examples of his curious game day strategies dating back to his first year at the helm. Winning a World Series gives both Ozzie and KW lots of slack with most Sox fans, as witnessed by the 38-10 vote in Ozzie's favor here.

I wonder what the ones who didn't like Rooney think of DJ and Singleton?

Oh well, at least as far as I can tell no one is getting banned for having an opinion. That is not the case on another site. Concerning Ozzie, I stand my ground. I like his philosphy, and think he's a good motivator when he has a team that buys into his ideas. In 05, he had a team that could execute his game plans. The last two years that is not the case. As a game day manager, he can be downright awful at times. Overall he's a darn sight better than Manuel or Bevington, but not Lopez, Stanky or Tanner. That's the way I see it.

QUOTE(WCSox @ Aug 9, 2007 -> 01:22 PM) I'm really surprised that so many armchair managers on Soxtalk continue to beat the "Ozzie sucks" drum ad nauseam, and I honestly kinda laugh at them. Sorry, armchair managers on Soxtalk aren't the only baseball fans who question some of Ozzie's more memorable moves.

QUOTE(elrockinMT @ Aug 9, 2007 -> 01:06 PM) The ole Hawkeroo. A legend in his own mind and a hall of famer, who never got his due. Stone probbaly struck him out once or twice. They never faced each other. Edit: Kalapse beat me to it.

QUOTE(TheBigHurt @ Aug 9, 2007 -> 12:20 PM) I'm really surprised that there's many supporters left for Ozzie, and I honestly kinda laugh at them. I can't remember who it was, but I pretty much lost all the remaining support I had for Ozzie when he put the shift on for some guy who was batting .190 or something, then kept the shift on after he tried bunting it down the first base line. That was it for me. Ozzie is not a good manager. Period. I've tried to be as objective as possible when criticizing some of Ozzie's more questionable moves. The thing is, Sox fans were World Series starved for so many years. Any criticism of Ozzie, or KW for that matter is seen by a good many Sox fans as heresy. That doesn't change the fact that KW has been streaky good and streaky bad, and Ozzie often employs strategies that baffle some of us.

QUOTE(maggliopipe @ Aug 9, 2007 -> 07:55 AM) Ozzie really had no other choice than to go with the bunt. I think he knew that the situation absolutely called for a stolen base, but sending Owens makes him look like he was second guessing himself from the night before. A manager's gotta be macho and prove himself infallible. You're not kidding are you? Pretzel logic.

QUOTE(knightni @ Aug 9, 2007 -> 12:31 AM) DJ pbp on the Score Singleton... somewhere else. No, both somewhere else.

QUOTE(WCSox @ Aug 8, 2007 -> 01:50 PM) Another "Ozzie's a big, stupid poopie-head" post. Awesome. Ozzie has a great baseball philosophy, in keeping with long standing White Sox traditions. With the right team he's also a great motivator. He's not a great game day manager, and I wish he had the right bench coach that could help him in clutch situations. Sorry, but that's just my opinion.

QUOTE(striker62704 @ Aug 8, 2007 -> 10:49 AM) How about dogging Thome, Kornerko and Pierzynski? They all had a chance to tie the game. All they had to do is get a single off Joe Fing Borowski. This team, even though they tease us with wins, is still full of losers. Of course that is also correct. Some of us may criticize Ozzie from time to time, but his players are having trouble executing any kind of strategy he may employ.

QUOTE(whitesoxfan101 @ Aug 8, 2007 -> 09:07 AM) I honestly think if after Owens reached on the gift dropped 3rd strike, Ozzie could have called time, went out on the field, told Borowski and Martinez that Owens was running on the 1st pitch, and he'd have STILL stolen 2nd base pretty easily. It's bad enough to give a pitcher as bad as Joe Borowski a free out, but AT LEAST take the easy stolen base off the worst defensive catcher in the game before you do it. That way, the bunt gets Owens to 3rd and Thome's just missed it flyout to right field ties the game. What a concept!! I mean come on, Owens stole 2nd on the first pitch earlier, Pods stole 2nd on the 1st pitch earlier, they both were safe by a mile, AND that was off Jack Westbrook, who has a far, far better pickoff move than Joe Blow. Ozzie should be glad we suck and that the newspaper writers here never ask him a tough question, because that was epic work in the bottom of the 9th last night. I'm with you on this one. Not only that, I wouldn't criticize Ozzie if Owens had been thrown out. I'm not crazy about the sac bunt when you're behind, and the Sox shouldn't have been giving up an out last night, when they struggled to get any kind of hit. That being said, a sac bunt moving the runner to third was much more preferable. I'm not a big fan of Ozzie as a game day manager, never have been.

QUOTE(Gene Honda Civic @ Aug 6, 2007 -> 03:17 PM) You might be able to move Crede at the deadline for a pitching prospect (or something like that) Another Class A pitcher no doubt.

I wonder what Billy's pitch count was in that game? I also wonder what manager would let a pitcher go 16 innings (of course assuming he was pitching effectively) today?

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Aug 5, 2007 -> 01:32 PM) Too early for me to start saying "I told you so" in the Floyd bashing threads yet...but there's 1. You can say it to me first. Nice outing for Floyd. Hope he can finally find his groove. I want the Sox to win more than I want to be right.

Another chance for that one time top prospect Gavin Floyd today in Detroit. Get the cheering section ready. It's time (actually way past time) for this guy to prove he really belongs.

QUOTE(Gregory Pratt @ Aug 3, 2007 -> 12:20 PM) Prior didn't flame out because he sucked. Of course you're right, and that's not the point I was trying to make. Drafting baseball players who will contribute over the long haul is very difficult.