The Kids Can Play

You were completely missing my point. It doesn't have to be the Rays. I was simply using Diekman as an example of where a player struggles with the Sox and then another great team fixes him. It could be many others teams or players I could have mentioned. My original point was about Dylan Cease and not necessarily about Diekman. The poster said he was struggling with 7 walks. My response was if Cease was on a team like the Rays, or in this case, we could name several other teams, he would be pitching much better. We all know Cease has amazing stuff and I feel the Sox don't help him enough. I feel a better structured successful team would fix his control issues. All I was pointing out is, the Sox pitching coach along with a weak catcher like Grandal, do not help Cease or other pitchers on this team. That was all I was stating. When I mentioned Diekman as a good example, you took offense about the improvement of Diekman, trying to devalue the improvement he made since leaving the Sox. IDK, but I think it still should bother Sox fans why he left here struggling at 7.94 ERA and since gone 2.16 lowering his ERA to 3.96, which is a lot to lower. I think all Sox fans should wonder WTF were the Sox missing with Diekman? Btw, I get the Rays fail with players and so do the Yankees, Braves, Dodgers. However they also develop better players more often than they fail players. The Sox are not in that league with these other teams in terms of player development and that was all my point was about and still is. It's been documented in this forum tons of time, the lack of key support staff the Sox employ for all the key areas of development like scouting, research, analytics, trainers, various types of coaches, etc. It is a fact, teams like the Rays and Dodgers to name a few, have extensively more people on staff to handle the proper player development versus the obsolete Sox FO. My point was the Rays were successful improving Diekman because of their internal structure which is superior to the Sox. I mentioned this in a previous post a few months ago about Jeff Passan on an interview of ESPN radio. He was explaining how the Rays have a huge department of people, where there only job is to research the players on the 29 other clubs that are struggling or just doing average, that might be worth trading for without giving up too much. This also includes looking at DFA candidates. I hate to keep running this point home about the Rays, but this is why good teams like the Rays and Dodgers are into modern baseball strategy playing chess, while the Sox are still playing checkers. I always keep hoping that some day we'll have an owner group and FO like these other teams once Jerry is gone. Then we can start to enjoy our summer watching exciting baseball, instead of being so miserable and upset.

I don't recall where I read the article, as I don't save articles, as I read a ton of them daily. Seriously, do you really think the Rays just go pick up players that were DFA on a whim? This is a highly successful franchise that has more key people tied into scouting, analytics, player development, research, etc. than the Sox do by massive amounts. Unlike the Sox, the Rays actually know what they are doing. They picked up Diekman because they were confident they could make him better. Btw, this is not the first time the Rays have improved a player that another team failed with. Again forget how it happened because that is irrelevant at this point. The fact is, the Rays improved him. Period! If you don't think the Rays had anything to do with his improvement and the they were just lucky, or the Sox did nothing wrong with Diekman, then please explain and educate me how Diekman went from 7.94 to 3.96 in ERA? How does Diekman go to the Rays and have a 2.16 ERA since leaving the Sox in just 8 weeks? You seem to be implying Diekman just got lucky? You speculating that Diekman will implode and won't make the Ray's playoff roster, while putting up great numbers is unfair to him and doesn't have creditability just because you think so. No offense, but maybe you should start facing facts, the Sox are absolutely horrible in player development and making tweaks to fix players. As long as this inept and dysfunctional owner, front office and manager/coaching staff is around, this won't be the last time you'll see players leave the Sox and flourish on another team.

You're absolutely right and it would be a marketing and image nightmare. Maybe that is exactly what Jerry needs to finally wake up by having the attendance go back to the years between 1966-1970, when over those four years the Sox averaged 680,641 for the year which was an average of 8,348 per game. I sincerely hope if Jerry is going to continue to be stupid and stubborn and not get rid of this front office, then he deserves to have to watch fans stop going to further embarrass him.

I completely agree and understand that, but that wasn't my point. The poster suggested this ream being bad again next year will drop attendance even more and I was agreeing with him. The fact is, per Baseball America, the 2023 Sox are the #1 largest decreasing attendance from 2022 for all 30 teams. I get there are other revenue streams for baseball owners, but I was simply focusing on Sox attendance which will go down in 2024, if they continue to struggle winning games.

First of all, please don't compare the Sox attendance to the Cubs. That is apples to oranges for many reasons. Secondly, no sh*t the attendance will pick up if the Sox win a lot in 2024. However please share with us what logical facts make you think the Sox will be a winning team in 2024, other than blinded fandom?

That is what happens when Dylan has a pitching coach and catchers that are clueless. Let's not forget the Rays who picked up Jake Diekman who the Sox said was washed up and DFA'ed. The Rays made some tweaks in his choice of pitches, mechanics and gave him far better catchers. As a result, Diekman left the Sox with a 7.94 ERA, to now lowering his current ERA to 3.96. That's right folks, he has a 2.16 ERA since joining the Rays.

There is no doubt the attendance will suffer even more in 2024. The current Sox attendance has the #1 largest decrease in MLB from 2022 attendance figures. The way this season will implode even more, there is no doubt the 2024 attendance will continue to decline further. Hopefully it's a worst decline so maybe it finally wakes up the demented JR to clean house.

I could be wrong but just a quick look at the 38 players who did 40-40, it appears if Robert could get 20 SB's, he would be one of only 7 players in ML history with 40 HR, 40 2B, 20 SB.

Wow! Pedro keeps raising the bar on his level of stupidity. This 2023 second half season with a W-L of 48-68 is not the time for player development. Just brilliant!

Ahh, the genius of Hahn and Grifol. Let's go waste money on a player who hasn't played since the end of the 2022 season and did not make one of the 30 MLB rosters for 2023. He is 32 years old and his last season with the Mets in 2022 had a slash line of: .203/.246/.390/.636. Of course knowing you are not making the playoffs and probably losing over 100 games, let's not think of bringing up some position players to handle RF like Victor Reyes, who is 28 years old, switch hitter and doing well enough at Charlotte to deserve a shot finally. The 2023 Sox Mantra continues on: Stupid Is as Stupid Does!

Usually when people double down, they are not only convinced their statements are factual and truthful, but probably upset and irritated that their former GM, manager and a few players are downplaying the facts and showing a blatant lack of integrity.

One week later from August 8 1994, is one of the all-time disappointments as a Sox fan. To be enjoying such an awesome winning season with big expectations...then JR and other ruthless owners shut down the season.

Joe Girardi would have been perfect for the Sox! That is why JR has to be gone, his cheap ways are obsolete in running a baseball team in a major market. We all know Girardi would have intimidated Jerry. There is an old adage in business and it also seems to apply to sports teams. We've all heard it many times, but obviously JR doesn't believe it, when it comes to his value of a manager and FO key support staff, "You have to spend money to make money!"

That is a very special group and great honor for Robert. Now its time for him to focus on 40-40. After last night's game he is on target for 40-40 of doubles and home runs. Now if Robert gets in that rare club and it's only Frank Thomas and Albert Belle of Sox players, as well as only 36 other players in baseball history.

You can disagree and that's your prerogative, but the manager and his coaches control the clubhouse and dugout culture and chemistry. If you go to a wining team with a strong culture vs the Sox culture which is toxic and cancerous, you will find the strong clubhouses are created by a manager with his leadership and discipline skills. Those strong winning managers establish clearly defined rules and procedures. The manager and coaches then also inspect and follow-up to enforce their rules and procedures, making sure they are being followed. The only value and it's an important value the GM brings to the team for the clubhouse culture, is when he drafts the right players that possess a great attitude, work ethic, leadership skills and/or are great followers and teammates, because they care and want to do the right things to make themselves and the team better. Hahn has failed miserably by not putting that type of roster together that would have the right leaders and self motivated players. However Grifol has also failed badly because he didn't set the right rules, procedures and accountability for this bad team. I assure you if Terry Francona, Dave Roberts or Bruce Bochy had this team from the start, it may not have a lot more wins, but it would be a team with rules, discipline and accountability or their would be consequences. Tell me where there was a press conference like yesterday on the teams like the Dodgers, Rangers, Rays or Guardians where the manager, GM and players have been seriously questioned by ex-players for a toxic culture? Please enough of this defending Grifol and making excuses for him.

Seriously, how can you even ask that? Of course Grifol has been allowed to run the team as he wants and make his own rules. GM's especially clueless ones like Hahn, are not going to tell their manager how to build his team chemistry and culture. That is on the manager. It's always been that way in baseball and it will never change. This crap doesn't happen on teams with good managers that build a winning culture and chemistry with their team. Please tell me another team in baseball where the GM tells the manager what the rules will be in the dugout and clubhouse. You saw that video last week of players standing in the outfield just talking and not doing their stretching. Btw, Grifol does have several coaches to assist him. Where are they in all this toxic clubhouse cancer? I'm sorry but there is no making excuses for Grifol relative to the way the team plays on the field in terms of hustle, passion and team culture. As far as the roster being bad, yes that's on loser Hahn.

Wow, Grifol's most delusional and total BS statement of the year. Hey Grifol...if you know what a good culture looks like, then why is your Sox team culture being questioned? Good managers and leaders already have the winning culture in place. They aren't having these press conferences in Atlanta, Tampa Bay, Los Angles (Dodgers), Baltimore and Texas to name a few.

This sadly illustrates how inept Hahn is at finding winners and overachievers with desire, passion and pride.

Not even close to a debate anymore!

Yea I knew Jake's effort was too strong for the others, so I shipped him out because the other lazy and uncaring players were embarrassed by his effort and passion for the game.

WTF is right! Is this POS Hahn suggesting Burger and Giolito were attitude problems. I sure hope he wasn't and maybe it was Middleton, Lynn or Kelly, My god, he is so full of BS with the hints and BS implications without specifics. Hahn just keeps showing us another higher level of incompetency of not only being horrible GM, but now showing us his lack of integrity with his delusional thinking, that he can con the fans and media that this Sox team chemistry and culture is just hunky dory.

Listening to this BS from Grandal is a slap to all Sox fans' intelligence.

I'm not only referring to the Grandal/TA episode. I was referring to the entire RH press conference, like he has always handled in the past with BS, rationalizations and spins. If he does indeed discuss the Grandal/TA thing, then he will also be forced to deal with the Middleton comments. Either way he will somehow make excuses for Grifol. Or maybe Hahn doesn't even mention either event and just tell us that he is behind Pedro and they are committed to making this team better crap.